I am so sick of the same ignorance being repeated over and over. I have been fighting for my rights and the rights of other gay people for over 25 years. In all that time the arguments against gays has never changed, not one bit. The arguments are the same discredited BS as was spewed 25 years ago. Sometimes it is the same old people that have been publicly discredited over and over just repeating the same ignorant BS they know is a lie. Other times it is new faces spewing the ignorance they were taught. I am so sick of it.

Because most of the ranting comes from the most adamant homophobes, it seems like the noise is not going away, indeed it often seems it is getting louder.

I want to live my life in peace. I don't want to feel I have to defend myself from ignorant statements that were discredited decades ago. I want to be able to walk down the street with the person I love without fear of bing attacked. I don't want to fight people that think their unfounded beliefs give them the right to attack me, I want them to leave me alone. I don't think that is too much to ask.

People that oppose gays and gay marriage, you are hateful bigots. It does not matter if your unfounded beliefs make you think your hateful behavior is actually love, it is still hate.

I agree 100%.

No problem. I'm sick of it all, too--so sick of it all. I want to hope that someday it will no longer be like this, but it has been 27-1/2 years since I found out my ex is gay--and that person who answered SLDrone's thread sounds just like people did 27-1/2 years ago. Then there was someone who answered I think it is DeAnn's thread.

Someone told you where to live? I believe that one! So--there is another right you can't have--you can only live in places they think you should.

Has been posting hateful comments all over the place. Has also been getting deleted fairly quickly.

It breaks my heart that a whole group of our society in 2010 are treated with such hate and descrimination.

Every time someone says a bigoted, hateful remark I speak up but I feel hopeless that change is so long coming.

I'm an old hippy and I'm still asking:-

"Yes, how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free ?
Yes, how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn't see ?"

"Yes, how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry ?
Yes, how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died ?"

Well I know that too many have died. I know that too many are not free.

How can I help?

I got really angry when I read the troll's post earlier today about how he pretends to accept gays but then talks about how wrong the lifestyle is. Ignorance to the highest degree, and it's so frustrating because the flaws in that logic are so glaringly obvious but you can never make those people see it.

I wish Anderson Cooper would interview Boyd KKK Packer. He'd tear right through those antiquated ideas and expose Boyd to the world as nothing but another bigot.

Just hit the report button and forget it. Trolls just do it in the first place to get a rise out of people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 06:09PM by Susan I/S.

My siblings all donated money in CA, but none of their adult children did.

In just the last few weeks, we've had the military don't ask thing thrown out, the CA vote thrown out, and gays in FL can now adopt children. The horrible suicide that was in the news drew enormous empathy.

There is a tipping point coming. Because of those of you who have been so diligent, society is changing.

I look back to when the church defeated the ERA amendment and wonder why women couldn't do what gays are doing. You are really making a difference.

I imagine everyone who has had to fight so hard for their rights has reached a point of exhaustion, so I'm not surprised you are tired of it.

Hang in. You'll get to see it change for the better in a big way.

"I look back to when the church defeated the ERA amendment and wonder why women couldn't do what gays are doing."


The church defeated the ERA amendment in the 70s: PRE-INTERNET.

When one looks at the history of the gay rights movement one would note that confrontational protests have been used quite successfully through out the history of the Gay Rights Movement.

Before the June 28 bar raid on the Stonewall Inn and subsequent riots, a protest attended by 50 gays was considered a huge turnout. The Stonewall Riots are considered the starting point of the modern gay rights movement. The gay rights movement was founded on confrontational protests.

The Gay Pride Festivals are a commemoration of those riots. So, the biggest events for gays were founded on confrontational protests.

Since then gays have used confrontational protests continuously to make a point.

One example is Act Up, like them or not, they were very successful at calling attention to the AIDS crisis and help get a proportionally large amount of money diverted to AIDS research. Act Up was so confrontational they even protested inside churches during services. Even though lots of people did not like this, it did work to achieve the goals of Act Up. This also points out that the Gay community is willing to protest religious organizations.

I have attended probably 50 protests, the most confrontational was when I was crushed up against the riot shields of the riot police at the California State Capital.

I do not think the woman's rights movement had as strong a history of confrontational protesting as the gay rights movement.

Just because someone is an ignorant fucker doesn't mean they are a liar. It just means they are, indeed, an ignorant fucker! ;o))

Of course they believe the bullshit they spew out. And that's the sad thing. They honestly, really believe it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 04:52PM by matt.

Once they have been shown that their claims are false, to continue is to lie, because they can no longer claim ignorance.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once they have been shown that their claims are
> false, to continue is to lie, because they can no
> longer claim ignorance.

Sadly, they can. Because they are so ignorant they cannot understand that they are wrong.

Or are they frightened to admit they were mistaken?

You are right about some people, however. They are just plain evil.

Play all the sad semantic games you want to try to excuse the liars of faith, they are still liars.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Play all the sad semantic games you want to try to
> excuse the liars of faith, they are still liars.

MJ, I am not playing sad semantic games.

But you seem not to be in the mood for debating nuances of the positions of people who agree with you, so it might be best not to respond to your posts in this thread any more.

See, I can auto reject what you are saying just as well as you auto reject me.

IF the ignorant reject legitimate proof that they are wrong in order to continue their campaign of hate, they are liars.

IF they are too stupid to understand the subject they are talking about then the lie is that they are smart enough to make such a judgment.

Either way, they are liars.

And your telling people they are wrong is a funny way of agreeing with people.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 06:55PM by MJ.

is just really upset and hurt by some of the responses in other threads about homosexuals and may feel people are trivializing his feelings. Bigots will never see the flaws in their logic and believe their stance is the correct one regardless of anything you throw at them. Call them bigots or liars, they are still wrong and there's no justification for their stance.

Tolerance may be the best you get from some people. That's not a bad thing, is it?

That doesn't mean there's ever an excuse to discriminate or deny gay people their rights. I really think the day may come when gays in the US will have full constitutional rights. That doesn't mean that discrimination will end. It won't. I doubt that it ever will. We've had tons of anti-discrimination laws in NY for years; easy to get around particularly concerning employment. Being a 'right to work state' means they can always find another reason to can your ass. In fact they don't really need a reason. Just try to prove discrimination.


There will always be a part of the straight majority that will discriminate and fight against gay rights. Beatings, name calling and even murder will continue. The recent horrific torture gang killlings in the Bronx will probably be repeated.
Repeated by those both gay and straight who willfully choose to live in ignorance, who won't look beyond their established beliefs regardless of how strong the argument to the contrary may be.

You will always have to hear ignorant statements about yourself.
Everybody does...anti-semitic statements, anti-Catholic, anti-gay, anti-African American and yes even ignorant anti-Mormon statements.

I guess people have to get to a point where they're secure enough to not let bigoted statements affect their pride and view of themselves. Certainly not easy. Stand up with self pride in spite of what others say and stand up for all those who can't or won't stand up for themselves.

Understand that heterosexuals are victims of anti-gay rhetoric that they've heard since they were children. The same stuff you heard as a child and probably believed also. That's why self acceptance can be almost impossible for many gays LDS or otherwise.

Stopping the type of thing heard in a conference talk is important. It hurts those who are still frightened about their futures. Those who are at an age and point in their life where what others think is very important to them. The words of leaders are taken seriously by them often without questioning what they've heard. It just gets internalized with everything else they've heard and all the other things they worry about.
A dangerous set up. Set up indeed. If some only realized that it's a set up for numerous sad possibilities.

Tolerance. I'll take it.

I thought I was angry at the church before, but its even worse now. I posted how I felt about Boyd KKK Packer's false statements about gays on my facebook page. The next thing I knew, my parents started sprewing hate on there. My dad is so entrenched that he sounded just like the church, as if he was a carbon copy of the leadership. He asked how stating these homophobic beliefs cause hate and discrimination, then proceeded to spew hate. They just don't get how these types of things make people hate themselves, and make others feel like they have a right to gay bash. It makes me so angry that I'm sick. I just couldn't believe the things my dad was saying online, and even making judgement calls about friends and family who defeneded me. Its so sad to me that my parents get so upset about one trait of mine that they think it necessary to make judgement calls about me, my friends and to not even come see their own son. They get mad at my siblings when they come to see me because by coming to see me they are somehow "approving of my bad lifestyle." Bull Shit! Get over it! UGH!!

Discredited because YOU say?

Frankly I am tired of it as well. I am tired of having your politcal opinions rammed down everyone else's throat. I'm tired of the equating of those who have deeply held religious beliefs with those who would be hateful towards anyone regardless of whatever practices (sexual or otherwise) they engage in. In the real world I'm not interested in having the sexual proclivities of anyone thrown in my face on a daily basis.

I've been around gay people my whole life. I've interacted with them, been friends with them, gone to school and worked with them. I treat them as I would anyone else in my life; with respect and kindess which they deserve. I have a right to my beliefs and no you don't have the right to tell me what I can and can't believe.

You are not the thought police.

out

You do know that you don't have to read threads by MJ, right? And here's a serious question: What is so bothersome about other people's "sexual proclivities"? If you think this is having them thrown in your face, then I think maybe you don't know what a sexual proclivity is.

Either way, your third paragraph rings pretty hollow on top of the second one.

So you're tired of people wanting equality? Good thing you ain't in charge. Would you have considered the CRA 1964 a "ramming down your throat?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 10:43PM by Strykary.

Discredited because science has enough evidence to show that they are wrong.

Discredited because they have been shown to lie.

Till think all I am hearing is "I like gays, but I wouldn't want my son to marry one".

Sexual proclivities rammed down your throat?

How do you think gays feel about heterosexual sexual proclivities rammed down their throats? Do you really think gays think straight sex is attractive to think of? Why is it always so one-sided? Straight sex is so pristine--

Then again--always making it about SEX. Gays don't want to have rights so they can have GAY SEX--they want a WHOLE RELATIONSHIP--just like you think you hvae the right to have--that includes psychological, emotional, mental, physical, sexual. If you are only thinking in terms of what gays do in the bedroom, you yourself are the sick person.

Tolerance--not good enough.

My children are children of a gay father. They have to deal with this sh*t, too.

I'm weary of hearing "tolerance."

Where the heterosexual idea of marriage was rammed in the holes of gay people.

For the anti-gay rights crowd it all boils down to sex.

"Ewwwww...it's just so unnatural for two men to have anal sex."

Really? Well how about a man and woman having anal sex? What about all the "straight" porn movies with the act in it? Why are you not on a crusade to end that?

It's unnatural to get in a metal tube and go 550 miles an hour at 30,000 feet yet millions of people do it every year. Why aren't you trying to put an end to flying?

It's unnatural to jump off a bridge with a rubber hose connected to your feet yet people go bungee jumping. Why are you not on a tirade to put an end to that unnatural act?

It's unnatural for one man and one woman to be mongamous for 50 plus years.

It's very unnatural for people to try to regulate and control sex between consenting adults, but you negative creeps, you homophobic morons sure won't stop doing it.

Relationships between men and women, men and men and women and women go far beyond sex. An expression of sexual love is never unnatural.

Why not just leave people who are not the same as you alone to do their thing?

I'll close with one question to the haters: Why is it that the people who are the most against gays and lesbians (Ted Haggard, Eddie Long, Larry Craig, George Rekers, Bob Alan, Roy Ashburn, Jim West etc.) usually the ones who are in the closet?