I was seriously dating one of the Las Vegas Stake patriarch's daughters before my mission. The family was in the ward and even before I began dating her I knew, as did the rest of the ward, that Sis. Patriarch ran the household, or as they say, she wore the pants in the family.

I came to find out after I began dating her just how strong her influence was; she wanted things her way and she got them. And the patriarch was the type to enjoy being the second banana. He was Prince Albert to her Queen Victoria, in a church where the man is supposed to be King Henry VIII, to Queen 'plug-in-any-name.'

There truly are men who are not, and have no desire to be, dominating, in charge, the go-to guy, and are content to let a strong woman be in charge. So how the heck do I, and those like me, get to the CK? (...he asked, mischievously...)

Anyone else had experience with domineering, priesthood capable women?

You need to learn to use the phrase: "Yes, dear!" and remember to never make it sound snarky.

Yes, dear.

What about...NEITHER person dominates, but both flow with their strengths and their weaknesses ('cause everyone has both), taking into consideration the situation in question.

I DO NOT WANT to be in a relationship where one person dominates...

...I want everyone to be able to have their say, and a consensus agreeable to everyone is (at least gradually, for the really difficult things) reached.

I've always lived my adult life with win/win (or win/win/win) being the accepted norm in all of my relationships.

Elderolddog I really think you need to be abused, really

abused. I think you've be up for it too. Its just a feeling

I have but I think its true.

Yes, dear!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, dear!


I knew it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. This is a universal law.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 08:07PM by perky.

My wife is the breadwinner in the family, who built her own business and is the provider in the family. I eventually settled into being a stay at home dad and taking care of the kids and playing music (without any financial pressure, which is great for an artist.) But we’re equals, neither one of us dominates over the other. She just likes to do that sort of thing, and loves to ‘be the provider’ like that. I like taking care of kids and playing music.

Many years ago I became confused and quit music and went to university to have a go at IT, which I was good at, but office work (mostly the people) just didn’t suit me, and besides, it wound up working against my wife’s business and just cost us a fortune in daycare anyway. When I packed that in and went back to playing music and staying home with the kids, I was concerned that I wasn’t ‘being the man.’ She said, ‘I don’t see why you got all sidetracked like that anyway, I married a musician and knew it. I don’t know why you thought you needed to turn into someone like my father. I don’t even like my father, you know that.’

So my wife takes the traditional role of a man, and I take the traditional role of a woman. So what? (But we switch back around in the bedroom, he he.) Who cares, as long as it works for us. That's all that matters, right?

I think it’s one of the (many) reasons our Mormon neighbors dislike us. Even though we are equals, to the Mormons around us my wife ‘wearing the pants’ must be, you know … satanic I guess. I do think they look down on us for our arrangement, but hey, screw them. I sometimes think that both the women and the men are actually just jealous of us. After all, we’re happy, and we structure our lives however we want in order to maximize that happiness. I don’t suppose my neighbors enjoy that sort of flexibility and freedom to do what works best for them. It’s all about the rules and roles of tradition, isn’t it?

That’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it. We both wear pants.

Your wife rocks! You should have gone to Hawaii with her, kids in school... She does what she enjoys, as do you.

Yes the neighbors are jealous, especially when warm weather rolls around. You're all drinking iced tea with skin showing. For shame!

Yes, the Hawaii thing came about because one of her clients who works for an airline gave her one of their free return plane tickets. So, she works hard, and took a bit of $$ and had a very cheap little getaway to just veg out on the beach for a week.

We all went as a family for a month a few years ago, so it's not like we missed out. We were glad when she came home though, and I got some roasted coconut kona coffee too !! (and a new ballcap and a t-shirt ... score!)

Mom needed a holiday from work, and with those plane tickets ... she was like, see ya! But we have her back now. :)

Awesome, don't let anyone talk down to you. In the end, your happiness is more important than some poor deluded cult members' opinions.

I trained her to do medical transcription about 29 years ago. She had a degree and was valedictorian of her graduating class (not the whole college, but her specialty).

Her husband got a master's, but is the SAH"M." She says mormons treat him like he "has no job." Even when he took one of his kids to the icu, they treated himn like he was a lazy good for nothing because he doesn't have a job. They are still very active mormon. Their kids are almost raised now. Personally, SAHM work is TOUGH. (I was lucky, I got to be a single mother!!!!)

My sister I think wears the pants in the family. Her husband would have never done much of anything though in life. He didn't take of the kids, so he needed to be working. She got him through college and he taught school up until early retirement a few years ago. She runs the house, but he does all the footwork. If they need to get a mortgage, he does all the work and she goes and signs the papers, etc. She is a school teacher, too, and still teaches, but there is no doubt in my mind (or my mom's or dad's) who runs that household. I have to admit they have one of the better marriages I know of, though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 09:44PM by cl2.

Interesting points cl2. Yes, that’s the impression I get from my neighbors too. It can’t possibly be something we want to do, it must be because I’m illiterate, or a bum, or too lazy to work. But I think this isn’t just a Mormon perception, maybe just amplified in them because of their traditional structured beliefs. My FIL also thinks I’m just lazy, and that I make his poor daughter work so hard to support me. She’s even told him it was her idea, but he just can’t buy that (he’s an old fashioned guy himself.) When I first started staying at home and we still lived in another city, I overheard the old gal next door comment to her husband that to see me out hanging clothes on the line was just plain wrong. So, I think it’s a new enough lifestyle choice that it just strikes old fashioned folks as kind of strange, they don’t quite get it. Stay at home dads are still kind of torchbearers in that regard I guess.

Regarding your second point, you know, my wife is kind of the organizer around here too. She often decides we need to do little projects, or outings, or instigates new ideas in our lives, and then I’m sort of the one who pulls them off or carries out the details. She has good ideas, and I’m a good doer. We just follow the roles we’re good at doing. For that Hawaii trip I mentioned, she organized where, what and how. I located things on maps and navigated us places and saved kids from drowning in the North Shore surf. I remember remarking how amazing it was to pull up to these places and there were our accommodations or rental cars ready and waiting for us. She commented on how she couldn’t have ever found the place on the map or carried all that crap back and forth from the beach each day. So, I guess it’s a matter of following your natural strengths instead of thinking about what someone else thinks you should or shouldn’t be doing.

Like I say, it works for us. And besides, sometimes I think one of my life lessons was to learn how to not be affected by what other people think of me. I certainly have had plenty of opportunities to learn the lesson. Yes, I’m a man and I’m hanging my laundry out on the line because I like the way it makes my sheets smell. Freaky, ain’t it? LOL.

If it works, why change it? My boss is also very happy and they have a really good marriage. Same as my sister.

For me, my sisters, my niece, my daughter, we ALL need to have a job. My mother and my ex's mother were always happier when they had a job. My ex MIL was a nurse and was in France during WWII. The only time she was ever happy when raising her kids was when she was working as a nurse. But, of course, she was supposed to stay home and raise the kids.

I also know many women who really love being SAHM, too.

I actually do believe a lot of men would love being SAHM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 11:52PM by cl2.

That sounds like a perfectly workable relationship to me,

you both win !!!!!!!! How wonderful that you worked it

out.

My TBM FIL refers to himself as the patriarch and my MiL as the matriarch. She rules the roost. The Boner.

My good friend (who also left the church) had a Mom who was a Dr. She's actually well-respected Pulminologist and sleep-disorder specialist. She worked a lot and his dad took care of the kids as a stay-at-home dad.

Of course, his dad, and all of his siblings, had varying degrees of Aspergers. His dad was completely functional- He was actually the Bishop for 5 years when I was growing up - I only knew when my mom told me, and after that I definitely noticed he did some weird shit. He is an extremely meticulous, flashy dresser- I've never seen him wear the same suit twice. He was a savante quality violinist and musician, and played for the city Orchestra wear I grow up. And he had an encyclopedic knowledge of the standard works, church history, and pretty much everything related to the church. He was a really interesting guy.

I'm pretty sure the arrangement was deliberate. Not that he couldn't have supported the family with his talents, but I think his Aspergers- and the way he overcame whatever challenges he faced in becoming a successful person - helped him with raising his 3 children who had much more severe forms of the disorder, and being at home to take care of them, etc.

In fact at one point when I was growing up there were over a dozen kids in our ward who had Autism, Aspergers, Down Syndrome, or Mental Retardation. Has anyone else noticed a preponderance of this in the church?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2015 09:16PM by midwestanon.

If some of them are older mothers, there is a higher percentage of downs syndrome. The other difficulties are diagnosed faster now and may seem more prevalent. Polygamy can carry certain genetic issues also.

My wife does about everything except the jackass stuff . . . that's my job and I'm good at it.

I have known a couple of RS Presidents of whom more than a few people said that they would be the next Bishop. And they were serious!! I always felt that these two women already ran their respective wards without the hassle of being bishop.

All of them.

Mormon women almost always end up with 1 of 2 types of men.

The patriarch type, where they become expert at lashing out in passive-aggressive ways in order to feel like they are in control, or the overly 'humble' & meek beta male who they can guilt trip and walk all over at will.

Gender roles are pretty arbitrary. It's healthy for two self respecting individuals to determine what roles and activities suit their unique relationship.

One of the biggest problems with TSCC, as I see it, is their treatment of people as gender roles instead of individuals.

fortheloveofhops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gender roles are pretty arbitrary. It's healthy
> for two self respecting individuals to determine
> what roles and activities suit their unique
> relationship.
>
> One of the biggest problems with TSCC, as I see
> it, is their treatment of people as gender roles
> instead of individuals.

Yup!!!

:D