Because you feel that you wake up to a "big hassle" every morning and it's "such a joy", I am hereby giving you notice of the following:
1) Beginning Monday, March 16, 1981 you will get up whenever you please by yourself. I will no longer be waking you up at any time.
2) You may keep your room as messy as you please. I will no longer wash any of your clothes. You know where the washing machine is.
3) You may eat breakfast anytime you please as long as you fix it yourself. I will no longer fix breakfast for you.
4) I will continue to get <nameofbrother> up at 5:30 and I will drive him to Seminary.
5) I will also drive you to school on the days you do not get up on your own to go to Seminary. You can find your own way home at noon.
6) On the days you get up by yourself on time (5:30) - Breakfast will be waiting at 6:00 and you may drive <nameofbrother> and yourself to Seminary and school. I'll even do a load of wash for you on these days - providing your clothes are in the hamper.
I too do not like the hassle every morning - so this is the only way to stop it.
Remember I love you and can appreciate the things that are expected of you - but I do not like the attitude you have lately about Church, family & etc. I hope you will change.
Love,
Mom
p. s. - This does not release you from getting in at a decent time each night and letting us know where you are & etc.
I'm of the school of thought that believes that once teens reach a certain age, they should be waking themselves up, fixing their own breakfast, and washing their own clothes. I certainly was expected to do all of the above! And my room only came up for discussion if it appeared to be violating the health code. How do you learn to take care of yourself otherwise?
By the time I could drive my parents were nowhere near the kitchen; if I could get my myself up and drive to school, I could sure as hell make my own bacon and eggs.
I was getting myself up, ready for school, with a lunch I packed myself, and on the bus when I was six. Had to because I didn't have a mother to do those things for me. Cleaning the house was a given. I did the dishes, laundry, cooking, etc way before I was a teenager. It definitely wasn't a hassle, it was just part and parcel of having a fairly normal, productive and fairly clean childhood. Yes, I definitely wish I had my mother growing up, but would she have taught me such independence at such an early age?
I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have been doing all of those things for yourself? You make it sound like you were Howard Wahlowitz and because you didn't want to go to seminary, she would no longer cut the crusts off your sandwich. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, it sounds like your mother loved you a lot and took very good care of you.
Ziller, religion aside, it sounds like your mother had made the mistake of coddling you. She took care of you way too long and to the extent that you became a spoiled, ungrateful brat. That certainly is no way to raise a boy into a self-sufficient, productive man. I can't help but wonder if you have grown up, yet, or have you carried that same sense of lazy privilege and entitlement into adulthood?
pollydee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ziller, religion aside, it sounds like your mother > had made the mistake of coddling you. She took > care of you way too long and to the extent that > you became a spoiled, ungrateful brat.
While I don't agree with that at all (teaching responsibility doesn't mean never doing anything for your kids), the point was that she would continue "coddling" him if he'd go to seminary -- otherwise, he was cut off.
She wasn't trying to un-coddle ziller or teach him personal responsibility, she was trying to get him to toe the church line -- by withholding family "coddling" if he didn't, and continuing it if he did. That's not teaching responsibility, it's trying to control.
ificouldhietokolob - there is the "toe the church line" in the letter, however, Ziller's mother also mentions his attitude toward family, his general laziness, and tardiness. His mother reminds him of all the work she does for him each day, and his general disrespect for her and her time. That is why I framed my comment with "religion aside." There is much more on that letter than religion issues.
pollydee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > His mother > reminds him of all the work she does for him each > day, and his general disrespect for her and her > time.
And then she says she's more than happy to continue to do all those things as long as he gets up and goes to seminary. :)
Ha! Yes, her mistake, again, in conflating what are, obviously, two separate issues: Ziller's personal view of religion, and his lack of respect and lazy attitude toward, well, everything and everyone else. When a parent recognizes that a child is floundering, and, as parents, they are losing influence, it is common to tighten down control while still showing love and trying to be responsible parents - which, btw, does require a degree of control over your children. If this letter is authentic, Ziller's mother obviously loves him, but makes the mistake of negotiating in the hope of maintaining what she feels is a positive influence in his life. True to what has been revealed of his character in his mother's letter, Ziller basically lies, and continues to take advantage of his mother.
Unless you know Ziller personally, I think you're reading a lot into the letter that isn't there. A teenager not getting up at 5:30 to attend seminary doesn't equal general laziness...you could easily argue that it's not even healthy. Besides the laundry, most of his mother's points are related to getting up early...too early. The statement at the end also doesn't imply that he had been staying out too late without notice, etc... It seems that the letter is primarily about church and the conditional love/approval of a mother. I'm assuming, and I may be wrong, that the statement about his attitude toward family was also church-related...I know my TBM parents would have given me hell if I had left the church as a teen.
Oh.. so we are to ignore the fact that Ziller lied to his mother, and continued to take advantage of her, because by taking all the facts presented into account, one is likely to miss "the mark."
Now *that* sounds more like the Mormonism we all know and love!
I don't want you to be the only one who sees a teenager just being a teenager and calls him out on it. What did he expect? A car, a maid, and no rules or responsibilities? Yes parents shove their religion at their children--they think they are doing the right thing. I was so miserable fence-sitting that when my daughters left, I didn't argue about church, but I'm sure I wrote more than one similar letter to my younger daughter. The more I did for her, the more mean and ungrateful she became. The older one was too ill with depression to parent in any traditional way. She lost her battle when she was 18. I did the best I could--far from perfect.
Ziller, put yourself in your mom's place. She said she loves you and gave you options. She's a great mom in my book.
If you want a bad parent example there are plenty on this board. I could tell you stories that would break your heart. Unreasonable demands and violence for failure to comply. Not getting enough food. Other things. Sorry to be a downer. I just want the moms of the world to catch a break. What a hard job.
Just curious if anyone has noticed that the letter is dated March 13 1981. By now Ziller is not sixteen or the letter is dated wrong for "literary" reasons.
Therefore, I am not particularly concerned if Ziller cleaned his room or not. I would like a few more chapters later in life to know when he got out of his teens and quit seeing his mother through teenage boy eyes, did he end up appreciating her excellent way of approaching the situation by upping the responsibility factor?
I realize that seminary is a horror show for kids outside the Morridor. 5:30 a.m.?? Brutal!
But, as the mom of multiple teens over the years, I have to say I admire Ziller's mom for the set of consequences/rewards she gave to her son. On point, on target . . . BAM! Excellent mothering in my book.
That being said, if I had been Mormon as a teen, I would have probably skipped all the time.
I like reading Ziller's posts...and especially his reviews on amazon. Hilarious!
Therefore, it's fun to see a little into who he is or where he came from.
My two cents: My children all have chores. They help with weeding the gardens, farm chores, animal care. They get themselves up (for the most parts). They help out around home.
Oh, and they're all 13 or under.
Chores are good for kids. Responsibilities help form children into responsible, confident adults.
I like reading Ziller's comments/reviews and appreciate a slight look into his parents' philosophy of raising him.
Well, I haven't seen "Let's Make a Deal" in so many years. This was fun.
Mom is trying. Ziller is not buying. Little brother still denying. The stairway to heaven is not being bought by anyone even though it is for sale. Interesting to follow. Blue likes the saga of Ziller. Blue has no advice or comment.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 05:03PM by blueorchid.
Hey, I'm on ziller's side; if I had another little brother below me, I'd have had to haul his butt around; as it was, I was the youngest so my parents were glad to have get my sorry ass moving without my mom yelling at me. As a matter of fact, since I was an episcopalian in high school, we only had a youth group meet at 6 a.m. once a week and would watch the bleary-eyed mormon kids down the street at the LDS church while we ate donuts.