Emotional Caitlyn Jenner accepts Ashe Courage Award at ESPYs

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/emotional-caitlyn-jenner-accepts-ashe-courage-award-at-espys/ar-AAd2sDA

Outrageous. All Jenner's got is money enough to pump into a sex change. Any child soccer or baseball player who has had to face chemo or similar is far more worth the award.

I thought the college basketball player with brain cancer was FAR MORE DESERVING, but what do I know.

+1

I support Jenner's decision even if I hate what the Kartrashian family stands for and as an example of why society if pathetic today.

I support her decision also. Let people be who they want to be. But to win an honor for courage? There are so many truly courageous people who are deserving. I could get going with just the people I know and never stop. As passionate as I am about LGBT rights, I'm really getting sick of her. I don't believe she is doing one thing to help the cause of non-wealthy transgender people.

I think its interesting how much hate Caitlyn gets from all the people who say she doesnt deserve this award, and those very same people fail to see the courage it takes to stand up to the prejudice she received (and obviously still does recieve) from those same people her whole life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2015 10:36PM by nonsequiter.

What bothers me is the minority of people who expect the rest of us to admire something outside of what we really value, and who think that we discriminate against a minority when we aren't like them and do not value what they value.

As a normal hetrosexual man, I can't relate in any way shape or form to some man who has his penis amputated and who has female harmones pumped in to his (ok... her) body. It's not because of discrimination that I feel this way. I am just not in to that and there is nothing in doing that, that calls to me. In fact, it's probably less than three percent of the whole population (maybe less than one percent of the population), that would even find what Jenner has done to be appealing.

With so few of people who would even want to do what Jenner has done, why should this be considered to be courageous by the rest of us? If not for the 'freak factor' this would not even be news at all. I am not discriminating. I am just not in to this. When it comes to Bruce/Caitlin as something we want to become like, to admire... I think I relate to the guy who can eat 100 hard boiled eggs at an eating contest more the guy who has his penis amputated. Why should it take courage or admiration to be like Jenner if Jenner is now happy with him/her self? Why can't a small minority understand that yes, they deserve equal rights. But don't expect the rest of us to envy or admire their preferences. I refuse to do that. Just as they refuse to be an average hetrosexual. So there's no courage nor admiration here. It's just a freak show. Like the bearded lady at the circus.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2015 12:33AM by azsteve.

Cool. You're the one putting your own opinion on a pedestal. Who cares if you're "into" something? Other people showing their support or admiration shouldn't affect you if it's really not prejudice. If you're simply not into it then just keep your mouth shut. There are plenty of things other people admire that I don't hate, but I'm not that into either. But I assume my opinion doesn't really matter on those things and those people probably couldn't give two fucks about whether I'm into what they admire or how they identify or not. Your opinion on her identity isn't wrong, it's just irrelevant, especially to whether other people are allowed to admire her or not. You weren't consulted when she received the award. If other people thought she deserved it, how exactly does it harm or affect you again? You're not being forced to think of her as a heroine just because other people do.

I'm not "into" heterosexual displays or the noisy germ factories that they produce when they breed but I guess I'll just have to learn to live and let live. Who cares. No one is asking me to have sex with one.

Perhaps you'll be more "into" it when you learn that Caitlyn still has her wiener? Chick with a dick do anything for ya?

LOL!

hahahahaha

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What bothers me is the minority of people who
> expect the rest of us to admire something outside
> of what we really value, and who think that we
> discriminate against a minority when we aren't
> like them and do not value what they value.
>
> As a normal hetrosexual man, I can't relate in any
> way shape or form to some man who has his penis
> amputated and who has female harmones pumped in to
> his (ok... her) body.


Here's the thing: For too long, your POV has been the accepted and "normal" POV. This is changing. As a racially mixed, sexually fluid, counter-culture woman, I can't relate to even half the "normal" shit that's forced into my world every single day. I deal with it, I understand it, I just don't relate.

The world is changing and becoming more accepting of other marginalized POVs for once. You don't have to like it or understand it, just as I don't like or understand what many others like you relate to or enjoy.

The world is not just about you and your preferences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2015 10:51PM by Itzpapalotl.

+1,000,000

You may have left Mormonism but Mormon prejudice has not left you

And this board shows exactly why ex-Mormons are often less open and "enlightened" than they think they are. So much hate on this board for things people have no real knowledge of.

Let he or she who is without hate, bigotry, or prejudice cast the first stone.

When popularity and fame are your top values, then risking their loss would be seen as very heroic. More important, apparently, than risking your life for others.

In the transgender community, those who deserve our admiration and respect are those who do not have millions to "rock it" as a representative of Hollywood royalty. I would have admired Jenner if he had accepted the award and then promised to fund transgender surgery by lottery, for ten people who can't afford it.

All h/she risked was disgrace, shunning and then eventual anonimity--a condition that most of us here experienced when we left the Mormon church.

Jenner made the choice to live his life in public with a reality show long ago--and the motive for that was cha-ching.


Kathleen

Agree with you there.

I wish Caitland the best. It does take courage to do what she did. I'm just sorry it took her so long to be herself.

Bruce Jenner explained to Access Hollywood several years ago that he "was just going through a bad time" when he decided in the Eighties cosmetic surgery might be the right solution.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2522927/Bruce-Jenners-changing-face-How-years-surgery-transformed-Olympic-hero.html#ixzz3g7pKy4E2

Dr. Paul McHugh closed down Johns Hopkins pioneering gender reassignment program in the 1970's. A postop study of patients found that there was virtually no improvement in their psycho social struggles when compared with non-surgical patients. He believes they were mutilating patients largely to act out a variation of body dysmorphic disorder that should have more properly been addressed psychiatrically.

When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings.

Due to pressure from transgender activists groups, several states including California, New Jersey and Massachusetts have passed laws barring psychiatrists, even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Surgical transgender patients have a significantly higher suicide rate than the general population. Surgery does not resolve core issues in the transgender patient, and they should seek ongoing psychiatric care postop.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939

Dr. Renee Richards, a former professional tennis player has written that her transition failed to meet even her own expectations. She wrote, "I wish that there could have been an alternative way, but there wasn't in 1975. If there was a drug that I could have taken that would have reduced the pressure, I would have been better off staying the way I was -- a totally intact person. I know deep down that I'm a second-class woman. I get a lot of inquiries from would-be transsexuals, but I don't want anyone to hold me out as an example to follow. Today there are better choices, including medication, for dealing with the compulsion to crossdress and the depression that comes from gender confusion. As far as being fulfilled as a woman, I'm not as fulfilled as I dreamed of being. I get a lot of letters from people who are considering having this operation...and I discourage them all."
( Renee Richards, "The Liason Legacy", Tennis Magazine, March 1999).

http://www.childhealing.com/articles/transsexualIssues.php

I don't have anything against Caitlyn Jenner and think gender dysphoria is a real thing, often best treatable the way it was in her case. But she's rich. Poorer transgender people don't have the options she did. That doesn't mean it didn't take courage to go through with it. I'm on the fence about whether she deserved the award over some others who were equally deserving.

She is a hero to thousands of youth who are bullied, committing suicide, and being murdered. The transgender community needs a positive public face.
And the world NEEDS to hear her message of acceptance and respect.

Oh that we could hear a speech like that at general conference.

I agree.

I have no problem with Caitlyn pursuing her own happiness in whatever way she sees fit. But I'm not convinced that she needs to get an award for that.

I've had a chance to view elite-level athletes at close quarters. I think it's very difficult for even the most grounded among them to keep their egos in check (and IMO you could make the argument that a certain level of ego is a requirement to attain the heights of athletic achievement.) I'd like to see an athlete getting an award for courage to go to someone who has overcome disability or particular hardship in pursuit of his or her sport. I'd like to see an attitude of humility and other-directedness. For so many elite athletes, they lose sight of the fact that it's not all about them. They live in a bubble. Perhaps in time if Caitlyn worked with young LGBT athletes and helped them to achieve their goals, then sure, hand her a trophy.

This whole thing with Caitlyn Jenner doesn't feel genuine. If someone of average income and background, who had a sex change, was given the award it wouldn't bug me. Average Americans who are transgender face much more difficult circumstances than extremely wealthy ones.

Jenner is the victim of the activists who are using him/her to further the secularism agenda of the far left. He may have problems that need facing and resolution, but this award is a move by some seeking to change attitudes by exploiting this person's predicament.

Bruce/Caitlyn was not brave. If she had done it when she was on the cover of the Wheaties box it would have been brave. Now it is a carefully calculated piece of showmanship to earn income. That is all. Good for her, but don't put her on a pedestal.

Last year's Arthur Ashe Courage recipient was Michael Sam, best known for being the first openly gay player to try out for the NFL.

I agree with the poster above. Lauren Hill's courage could have been recognized to encourage young people everywhere struggling with cancer. Theirs is a true life and death fight.

Give the Arthur Ashe award to somebody who truly deserves it.

Give Jenner the "Former Athlete With The Most Internet Headlines" award.

Didn't deserve it. How about some real heroes? How about all the people who have died from AIDS? Those are the courageous heroes...

-Dennis

-single parents working multiple jobs to support their families
-people with handicaps or injuries working to better their lives
-anyone with a mortgage and a job who works hard to keep both
-soldiers serving their nations and fellow citizens

ALL MORE WORTHY THAN BRUCE!!!!!

Ron Burr

+1

SO.NOT.NEWSWORTHY.

Those of you who have escaped abusive Mormon parents, families and situations and made your way in the world in spite of those barriers are truly courageous. That is what I want to learn about, not a rich celeb constantly glossing him/herself.

Ron Burr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2015 10:46PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

+1