I don't know why this bothers me so much but my 45 yr old sil has been divorce twice and is now dating another TBM man for the last 10 months. Her goal is to get remarried. For what? so she can have sex. Seriously? You have to be married to have sex? Then my second thought is there is no way she has dated someone for 10 months and not had sex especially since she KNOWs what she is missing. And from the sounds of it, is really missing it.

Is there any chance that there is a loop hole of some kind for a divorced tbm that even though they are "temple worthy" they really are having sex more often than they admit. Kind of like college kids who come up with all kind of ways to have sex without actually having what they perceive to be sex. Just to make themselves feel worthy?

I don't know any that have remained celibate. There may be some out there, but I don't think there are a lot of them.

The most TBM divorcee I knew got pregnant two months after her divorce was final. Married that guy, then divorced him. Slept with a few other guys, but had her tubes tied after the last baby was born.

I forget what they call the groups that are basically "old," which means over 25 and not married in Mormon parlance, I think.

Anyway, I asked a faithful guy who was 31 about this very issue in his singles ward. It was pretty clear that everyone knew that sex was going on all over the place but that he was "trying to follow the rules."

My take was that sex was rampant and it was almost a don't-ask, don't-tell culture in those wards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2015 04:30PM by Popped my Strengthened Sinews.

"My take was that sex was rampant and it was almost a don't-ask, don't-tell culture in those wards."

That could make a for an amusing scenario. A single woman sees her bishop for a TR interview. Bishop asks her, "Do you obey the law of chastity?" Woman answers "Yes." Bishop responds, "Would you like to change that while you're here?"

Popped my Strengthened Sinews Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I forget what they call the groups that are
> basically "old," which means over 25 and not
> married in Mormon parlance, I think.
>
> Anyway, I asked a faithful guy who was 31 about
> this very issue in his singles ward. It was pretty
> clear that everyone knew that sex was going on all
> over the place but that he was "trying to follow
> the rules."
>
> My take was that sex was rampant and it was almost
> a don't-ask, don't-tell culture in those wards.


Back in the 1970's the old people group was called "Special Interest" Good god!

That special interest wouldn't be spelled S E X would it?

Earlier this year I asked for some advice to pass along to my son about his possible divorce. Before they finally separated, his ex made a big deal out of their oldest child's baptism. It looked beautiful on FB!

They separated two months ago. Within a month she was bringing a guy home and shagging him in her bedroom, much to the chagrin of his two older kids (high school) whom she helped raise.

Now they're both back in Utah, they both have attorneys, but the divorce was filed in North County (San Diego). I suggested they car pool down together... There's only one issue, alimony. She expects a lot. He knows he'll be paying child support and has no problem with that. So now it's become a very ordinary event.

But she did not in the least hesitate to not only jump into the dating scene, but into bed.

Am I the only one who thinks it's kind of bad or negative to NOT have sex before marriage? Like what if you're just not sexually or physically compatible -- but you wouldn't know that until after you're married. So then you either live in a sexless marriage or immediately divorce?

Mormon doctrine on sexuality has always been a prime point of contention for me. It's so outdated and counter-intuitive.

I think it is insane to marry someone you have not had sex with.

I also think it is insane to marry anyone before living together for at least a year.

I also think it is insane to marry before both people are done with schooling and employed.

I also think it is insane to watch American Idol.

Your results may vary. ;-)

I'm sure sex goes on all the time with divorcees. All you gotta do is either lie about it or repent before you get remarried. So many LDS people are full of shit. Like the old saying goes:

The angel Moroni sounds his trumpet every time a virgin is married in the temple.

I knew a couple who got ex'd because after their divorce they got together for one for the road and then told the bishop about it. I don't get it. Why tell the bishop?

NO, none that I have known anyway.

Most of the ones I've known haven't been.

If they are TBM, they remain celibate. If they don't remain celibate they are not TBM. Or do I not understand the meaning of TBM?

They can just lie about it in the interviews, just like most men lie about not masturbating. There's no loophole (it's mormonism, of course there's not loophole that allows you to have fun), but lying is enough.

I'm sure there are SOME which do stay celibate, but I'm sure there's also a lot who don't.

I was also a true mormon virgin when I got married at age 27. Many people find that difficult to believe.

By the time I hooked up with my boyfriend from age 20 at age 48, I had lost beliefs in the church and I had been separated for over 9 years, let alone the fact we hadn't had sex for a while before my gay husband left me.

Yes, it is possible to be celibate even if you know what you are missing. When my ex left, I really wasn't interested in ever dating again and refused to do so unless this guy became available. He did. I didn't shrivel up and die or anything. I just don't need to be driven by my "needs" and after the mess of my first marriage, you can be turned off by anything marriage driven for a long, long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2015 07:43PM by cl2.

Having spent several years in Mormon single-adult land in the Morridor, I witnessed some very interesting things.

A lot of the women stay celibate. Of the ones who don't, most hide it and lie to their bishops. None of the women I knew admitted to having sex with anyone. The men talk, and a woman who goes as far as a make-out session with a man will get a reputation that causes temple-marriage-minded men to avoid her or to only view her as a hookup.

Few of the men are celibate. Some are open about it and will try to bang anything in a skirt. Others lie to their bishops but still openly have women over for sleepovers, leave evidence lying around that their kids see, etc. Somehow, they never seem to get sanctioned. Some avoid having P-in-V intercourse, but do everything else until they can snag a wife (there are a fair number who get married just to have sex). Some go in the opposite direction; I dated several divorced men who wanted to abstain from kissing, cuddling, or even holding hands until they were married again. They all seem to be obsessed with sex in one way or another, and none of them seemed to have healthy attitudes towards it.

One man (who admitted he was fond of spanking the monkey) had large, handwritten posters in his apartment reminding him, "NO E!"

As a single non mo man that lived 25 years in Utah county. I could tell you some funny stories.

Siddown, lemme buy you a drink...

My ex wife is engaged to a TBM who is (or was) a member of his ward bishopric. They are shagging like there is no tomorrow.

A divorced friend says that if he's looking to score, the dances the church holds for single adults (what do they call us--special interest?) is his best source.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!

Celibate what's that?

They just lie about being celibate just as boys learn that it's better to lie about not masturbating in order to maintain good standing in the church. In a way, I don't think my baptism took because my ex lied in his interview as we were not at all celibate.

It wouldn't matter to me. Even as a Mormon I was not attracted to available Mormon men. There weren't any I found attractive enough who weren't already married.

The married ones are off limits. But if there were any I found attractive, it would have been some, a handful of those guys. My rules are such that I would never date a married guy, no matter.

It's like I work with and around lawyers. But I'm not attracted to them either. I've never found any chemistry there.

But engineers and scientists. For some strange reason, I'm drawn to those types lol. And I'm the furthest thing from a scientist you can get. But one of my children is a scientist, and an uncle, and three cousins I know of are/were professors of science and medicine. So maybe it does run in the family, after all. Science and music & art genes are closely related.

But celibacy is something that it just is what it is. I don't believe as a former Mormon it's a lifestyle I actively sought or chose. But I don't need an active sex life with anyone to be validated. So I prefer celibacy to sleeping around.

The TBM's I knew who weren't chaste inside the church left as young adults, because they couldn't handle the pressure to conform to LDS standards. I tried and for the most part was able to, but back to the unrealistic high standards that just become untenable or when broken people are made to feel shamed or shunned like the woman in Hawthorne's novel.

The church is really good at setting people up on these pedestals, just to watch them fall off from them. For both men and women. It's those really high strict standards to conform, to be chaste, to be soooo very modest and pure etc. That it becomes so rigid in people's behavior, they can't help but flounder at some point and falter and fall down.

Instead of just allowing people to be people, without unrealistic high expectations, I don't believe there'd be as high a rate of failure in the monogamy department between husbands and wives as there is.

I've seen really stalwart LDS leave their spouses for a song and dance routine. They just gave up. Or maybe they were never really in love in the first place. But the standards are heretical.

Mormons tend to be either sexually deprived or sexually depraved, with very little middle ground. And the men for the most part tend to covet what they cannot have: multiple partners. Because I've heard them joke about it for as long as I was a member. The guys still hold dear the principle of plural marriage, and covet many women. While married to only one at a time. That also leads them to cheat on their spouses, which leads to broken marriages and broken homes.

They're just jumping from one bed to another, in other words. So for the most part, I don't believe Mormon divorcee's are all that celibate, unless they were the one that was left for another. And in that case they were the one true to the marriage covenant, while the other was a cheating heart.

1969, Lakeview Ward. At every Elder's Quorum social, when things were winding down, someone would shout out, "Okay, time to throw the key rings into the hat!" And this cry would be taken up, "keys into the hat!"

But we never did it.

If you haven't figured it out, the men were supposed to toss their key rings into a hat, and then the wives were supposed to close their eyes and reach into the hat and pick out a set of keys, and go home with that man. And there was always talk about how unlucky it would be to have your wife pull out YOUR keys.

The sexuality was thinly repressed. And you've got to figure that some where, some time, some quorum played the game for real.

"And there was always talk about how unlucky it would be to have your wife pull out YOUR keys."

Hey, speak for yourself. You don't know my wife. :-)

Well, you know, once your cupcake has been licked... what's the point of celibacy?

Is that what they are calling it now, cupcake? Back in the day we called it a lot of other names but never cupcake.

I think for some people it matters who they have sex with.

Just having sex to be gratified isn't the intimacy associated with having a sexual partner who is intimate. Anyone can have sex with a prostitute or a gigolo.

And it means nothing. Real intimacy isn't primarily sexual.

If you love someone with heart and soul, some people aren't content to replace a past love with a sexual object. That's what separates the men from the boys.

The most intelligent in the mammal world mate for life. When their partner dies, there is no one else for the surviving half. Some people are like that also. Maybe they too, are the more intelligent of the human species. As in content to be monogamous, and for life.

One of my stepsisters is like that. When her husband died in a plane crash in 1987, she was still quite young, and has always been a beauty. But she has never wanted to remarry, and has stayed monogamous and celibate because she doesn't wish to love any other.

It wasn't for lack of opportunities in her case. Her heart still belongs to her betrothed.

And she believes he is waiting for her on the "other side." She was/has been inactive LDS, and he was non-practicing Catholic. Both were/are remarkable people, and she has a beautiful family.

Celibacy for her was the right course.

That is really touching. Thanks for sharing.

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The most intelligent in the mammal world mate for
> life.

Not true.

http://www.livescience.com/1135-wild-sex-monogamy-rare.html

http://www.petful.com/behaviors/a-list-of-animals-that-mate-for-life/

http://www.universeofsymbolism.com/animals-that-mate-for-life.html

I know that my wife has a TBM friend who is divorced. And apparently all the divorced TBM men are sexing her up like crazy.

She also had another TBM friend who got prego by a tbm guy and they got married.

So yeah....it happens for sure.

I have my suspicions.

when I was a teen we had a lovely couple that had been married for 40 years. One of them passed away suddenly and the other was remarried within 8 months, to another very recently widowed person.

They got married by the bishop in the RS room (at the time they didn't allow weddings in the chapel.) Everyone was pretty open about the fact that they were getting married so they could have sex and no one seemed to see what the big deal was. I was pretty saddened by the idea that marriage was reduced down to "for sex only." They divorced a few short years later and the rumors were that they were both rather miserable. Guess the sex wasn't that great lol.