Here's one of my faves...

>>> Ask ANY TBM to tell you which parts of the Bible are "translated correctly"!!!

What's one of Yours???

Or so it seems to me...

here is one:

"so I understand that 15 key church doctrines have been changed since joseph smith-can you help with what those were and why were the changed?

fyi:key doctrine changes: lectures on faith- essence of god, adam-god, temple ordinances, blacks and priesthood, sacrament- use to use wine not water, BOM etc

What could they say to "stupid"

I understand that the LDS Church teaches its members to obey the law of the land. However, the founder of the LDS Church, Joseph Smith, did not follow the law of the land. Wasn't he convicted of fraud? And didn't he unlawfully marry women who were already married?

He also illegally operated a bank which failed. Quite a few church members lost their testimony of Joseph Smith after being ruined by him, and a lot of them left the church as a result.

How did the first god become a god if there was no god to exalt him? or savior to die for him? if the first god didn't become a god, but was god from forever & always, then why not worship that one instead of elohim?

Hey man, its turtles all the way down.

Obviously, the first god came from a race that evolved from lower life forms, on a planet where life originated from lifelessness, in a universe that started from nothing with a big bang. Why else would we find all those hints about evolution and big bang into our universe? It follows that the first god was the first of his race to achieve omnipotence, after which he exalted his wives and either left his race behind and moved to Kolob or else destroyed the rest of his race by flood or fire and used his world as a home base. Then he went on to create a sub-universe and populate it with the spirit children his wives produced. But he gave these people a short-cut to godhood through a redeemer. The idea caught on and was used by all subsequent generations of gods until after billions of generations Elohim (Adam) was exalted and used the same formula to make our universe and us.

Thanks for clearing that up! One more question: how does this god's wife/wives produce spirit babies? Does she form them out of existing spirit matter? Does she give birth to them like humans do? Do the spirits just float up out of her belly like ghosts?

kolobian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did the first god become a god if there was no
> god to exalt him? or savior to die for him? if the
> first god didn't become a god, but was god from
> forever & always, then why not worship that one
> instead of elohim?

Similarly, if God is bound by the immutable laws of justice and mercy, as so many Church videos produced for the seminary program proclaimed, who made those laws? If God is ominpotent (literally, "ALL-powerful"), why can't he just snap his fingers and change the "law"?

Joseph Smith claimed that he received the priesthood from Peter, James and John. The problem with this claim, (among many others), is that Peter, James and John did not "hold" the priesthood.

The priesthood was only allowed to be held by Aaron and his offspring, and none of these three (PJ&J) were from the same tribe as Aaron. The same thing is true for Moses, who was the brother of Aaron. Likewise, he never held the priesthood.

None of this was known by JS, who--in ignorance--decided to ordain himself to what he thought was "up for grabs" (if he wanted it so).

Q. So Orson Hyde went to Jerusalem and dedicated it for the gathering of Israel?

TBM: Yes, that is correct.

Q. So while he was in the Holy Land doing such a profound and significant thing to prepare for the return of Christ, why was Joseph Smith screwing Orson's wife?

Bam! That should shut em up!

Yes, it may shut them up, but it won't be deer in the headlights. Discussing Smith's sex life just makes them angry. In my experience, you lose all credibility.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2015 08:27PM by Heresy.

That's a good one... I'll have to use that one on somebody.

If the BOM is true it would withstand any criticism...The 'spirit' would confirm it is true anyway...So you have should have no fear with investigating everything about it with an open mind.

Then throw this quote at them...“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.”

– President J. Reuben Clark

I don't know that Pres. Clark's quote is intended to promote inquiry. I think "it" may have different meanings in the different sentences. In the first, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation," it is understood that he is saying what we have cannot be harmed by investigation if what we have is the truth. In this sentence "the truth" and what "we have" are meant to be the same thing.

But the second sentence assumes that "the truth" is not the same thing as what "we have." To be grammatical, the pronoun "it" needs to have an antecedent noun, and the only noun in the sentence is "truth." After puzzling for some time over this quote, I think he might have meant "If we have not the truth, it [the truth] ought to be harmed."

If I had the guts, and was crass enough, I'd like to say to a TBM, "Didn't Joseph Smith f--- 14-year-olds? And you're somehow okay with that?"

Most TBMs don't know about the 14 year-old girls. They won't be "OK" with that since they don't know about it.

It would certainly give the "Deer In The Headlights" look though! But since they never heard about it before they'd most likely assume it's not true.

I think a better way, considering most TBMs don't know about it, is to have a source with you (websites, books), and tell them "It says here that Joseph Smith married underage girls, is that true?"

I love coffee, and numerous studies show it's GOOD for you.

<blank stare with mouth open from TBMs>

I told my sister how it helps with mild depression, prevents type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer's and is one of the best sources of antioxidants. She was surprised. She was also surprised when I told her how George A. Smith said hot drinks included hot chocolate and soup.

It used to be taught that anyone with a drop of "negro" blood couldn't have the priesthood. I then stumbled on this thought:

Joseph of Egypt married an Egyptian and had two sons Ephriam and Manassah. The BoA teaches that Ham's wife Egyptus was a descendant of Cain (who TSCC teaches is black). When members of TSCC receive their patriarchal blessings they are told they either come through Ephriam or Manassah. With that logic no man in TSCC should have been able to hold the priesthood before 1978 and any blessings or priesthood ordinances before then should be null and void.
What I want to know is how come none of the prophets or apostles ever figured this out?

I was thinking about Joseph marrying an Egyptian, recently. So all the white and delight somes of Ephraim and Manasah have Egyptian DNA, blood...

Also, Boaz married Ruth, a Moabitess, therefore not a tribe of Isreal. Moab is where Jordan is now. Boaz was the father of Jesse who was the father of David, who then came Jesus.

And Moses' wife was also probably not an Isrealite

I had both the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods conferred upon me before Yoda's so-called revelation and it turns out I have 2% West African alleles from my mother's father from Tennessee. I guess all my church leaders lacked the gift of discernment.

Of course all the church leaders and holies of biblical times have a few percent of Neanderthal alleles. Apparently "a single drop" of that doesn't disqualify one for the priesthood.

The FLDS and Warren Jeffs (along with 100 other offshoots) believe in the same books and ordinances as you do.

I used this a few times:

"I don't want you to answer me, rather just be 100% honest and answer to yourself. When answering, ponder the ramifications of your answer. 'If it isn't true, would you want to know?'"

That's the one that got me out. My honest answer to that question was my red pill.

Really find interaction with MORmONS to be a waste of my time/energy. I tend to be the one giving that "Deer In The Headlights" look whenever my gaze should pass their way.

"If my family and I all end up in the terrestrial kingdom but you have been exalted to god status and are in some corner of the universe creating your own worlds, I will be with my parents, siblings and children but you won't. Your family will be off somewhere else doing their own god thing. According to the Doctrine and Covenants, I will be in some type of paradise, and you will be on the surface of a big glass ball. Bummer. Come and visit anytime."

Mormon: You can't judge the church by the people.

Me; That's because the people don't live what the church teaches.

That line got me my best "Frozen" stare.

Why did JS claim to RESTORE the gospel when in fact the 3 Nephites and John the Baptist never left?

There was no great Apostacy and hence no need for JS.
This is in another thread today about the Nephites. What a crock!

"So while he was in the Holy Land doing such a profound and significant thing to prepare for the return of Christ, why was Joseph Smith screwing Orson's wife?"

+1,000,000

I can't stop laughing.

"If I had the guts, and was crass enough, I'd like to say to a TBM, "Didn't Joseph Smith f--- 14-year-olds? And you're somehow okay with that?"

I am crass enough and I have asked and that's why I am shunned. Oh I am so heartbroken, NOT!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2015 03:31PM by verilyverily.

Asked of a TBM woman who is currently married, but could be single:

Just for my information, if the "Profit" told you he received a revelation that
[you were to leave your husband and marry him] or
[you were to marry him, but not tell anyone about it, especially your husband]
what would you tell the "Profit?"

I asked this of my first wife (while still married to her) and her SIL, both of who were very TBM.
Trust me when I tell you this question produced that "Deer In The Headlights" Look in both of them,
but also told me where I stood in their pecking order of loyalties.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2015 03:35PM by heretic.

LOL, I see where you're going with this.

Let's just the latter or the one you failed to mention.

When very TBM, my "pat" answer to everything was, "There are things that have happened and will happen in this lifetime none of us understand. God is at the helm and it will all be made clear in the afterlife." Then I would go about my very smug and arrogant way.