I told my father about me this morning. There was no simple way to begin, so I just started talking. He said he was shocked that we were even having this conversation, because I know the scriptures so well and can quote the most familiar passages word for word. He objected and asked how I explained away the Book of Mormon. I said that all it would really take to write the Book of Mormon is about a third grade education with lettering, a great familiarity with the King a james Bible and an acquaintance with how to lead people on in the most savory, most popular speculations of the day. The book might be impressive, but not necessary miraculous.

To make a long discussion short, he cried, but I didn't feel him closing his heart off to me. I felt almost nothing until after he left for work and then it hit me in my gut that things were different forever now. It's a terrible feeling, but always living in anticipation of that feeling is a worse feeling.

So, I just got it over with. He took it better than I ever could have imagined. He can sympathize with me about the judgmental mentality of Mormons in general. He understands that I have had a hard time, but he blames most of it on the drug that is pornography (since that was a source of much drama not long ago. He was confidant, my 'transparency' buddy. We've had long talks about life and the universe.).

I knew it would crush him, and it sure did. I love my father. That was part of why I was so hard on myself in my teenage years over doing what comes naturally to every lonely teenage boy (that, and it didn't help either that I was delusional and full of misinformation about healthy sexuality). I don't know if he can't help but dismiss what I say as an elaborate attempt to justify myself in sin. In a way he has a point: I have lived in great dread that nothing I could ever say will ever surmount the the vast amount of dirt I have incriminated myself with to every priesthood leader I've ever had within a ten mile radius of where I grew up.

I punish myself for keeping this secret so long, but then I remember my schooling is on the line. I remember that I just wanted happiness, and I was so transparent before because I wanted to be thorough and forthcoming so I could understand what I was doing wrong that made me feel the way I did. Come to find it many years later, it was depression and severe anxiety and a little bit of ADD to boot: no invocation of sin required to make sense of what I was feeling for so long. Mormonism sure lies at the root of the quagmire that is my psyche, though.

I'm slave to priesthood authority for a little while longer. When they ask me if I have resolved everything I would like to resolve with a bishop, I truthfully answer yes — knowing that if I spoke a word about myself, they would proceed to psychoanalyze me with that tripe that is in the Book of Mormon and making prescriptions of more self-basement (as if that solves a self-esteem issue). I don't tell the bastards anything anymore. They had their chance to monkey about with my brain, and I'm tired of them. No more.

My dad will be a work all day, but he said he wanted to have a long discussion with me when he got back. So now I'm just sitting here in my old room I've had since high school thinking... "fuck." I don't know exactly what will happen next.

Good for you. When we create chaos, we create an environment we can finally start to heal in. It's hard and will be hard for the next while, but in the end, you've made the right choice and can start the healing process.

Just be your calm self.

Tell him your fears of he and mom not having anything close to a christlike reaction to the reality of your postion and that you feared they may disown, defund and throw you out as has happened to other LDS children whose only crime was to not believe based on logic and evidence.

"Dad, when there are facts to the contrary, then faith becomes a lie"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2015 02:18PM by AmIDarkNow?.

You seem to be a deep thinker and an honest, honorable young man. I always held my dad in high esteem--he was a wonderful person. But, I didn't always make the choices that he would have made for me. It was painful to go against his views, but I felt, and said to him, that I had to live my own life and make my own choices even if they might turn out to be mistakes. And that's what I did. To do otherwise wouldn't have been me.

As a parent, I have encouraged my daughter to build her own life. Understand the issues and the possible results and then make your own choice. No one can do it for you (although many may try). Learn from your choices--whether they are successes or mistakes.

It is your job!

Now, until he gets home, get out of your room and go for a brisk walk or run. If you have a dog to go with, go for it. It will help you destress and calm your mind. Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2015 02:11PM by bordergirl.

Interesting that his first thought was "How do you explain away the BoM?" Just because Holland is impressed by the book doesn't mean the book is impressive...just that Jeff, and other TBM's are easily impressed. It's a poorly written book that has multiple anachronisms on nearly every page. How do you explain away the changes, plagiarism, contradictions, anachronisms, etc...?

If the BoM is the basis of your father's testimony, maybe he's now on his way out as well. Sometimes all it takes is questioning whether the BoM is really what TSCC claims. Read it with a hint of doubt and it's all over...the book is unbearably stupid when you drop the notion that it's the greatest book on earth.

Chump's comments are all true. None of the "how-could-joseph-have-written-the-BoM" arguments seem to hold up. There's no reason to believe that he wrote it in the timeline that TSCC claims. There's no reason to believe that he "translated" it by himself.

All of the things that are supposed to be so miraculously unique to the BoM turn out to be questionable, to say the least. Joseph was known (and this comes from his own family) for his ability to spin elaborate tales of the original inhabitants of the continent many years before he wrote the BoM.

The huge list of anachronisms, despite how desperately the apologists try to fake explanations, is deadly to the idea of "the most correct of any book on earth." As do the massive borrowings from other sources, complete with the mistakes that were in those sources at the time that Joseph wrote the BoM.

The language is awful. I don't just mean the grammar and spelling. I mean the painfully obvious fact that the language used is so clearly a very poor imitation of King James English, exactly what you expect when someone who is not actually gifted in languages is faking it. If you happen to have been raised reading and hearing real King James style English, --- you either have to believe that if it came directly from divine inspiration (with divine correction throughout, as is claimed by witnesses), then god or the holy spirit was a dunce. Or believe what is obvious to an unprejudiced mind --- that it was made up by amateurs who wanted to fool people with impressive-sounding language.

I could go on and on. (I know, I usually do....) But if you take the time and trouble to check the arguments against the BoM, there is no way to that it can stand as a valid document. And if you consider the BoA, you have even more clear proof that Joseph was a fake, making it up as he went along. Probably with considerable help from his co-conspirators.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2015 06:55PM by peculiargifts.

Has anyone written up anything on the linguistic issues - some examples? I don't doubt it at all, but would like to see more on that.

It's not exhaustive, but it clearly demonstrates problems the BofM has in the Jacobean English department.

http://infidels.org/library/modern/curt_heuvel/bom_kjv.html

Thank you!

You can shoot holes in Mormonism till the cows come home. They will claim you haven't hit them yet even though by now their doctrine looks like a very lacy swiss cheese.

In my case many years ago, I made it clear to my father that I had to follow my own heart and mind. I had to use my own intellect and follow my own conscience. I had to do what I thought was right.

I'd like to say that went really well and all was good. But you know, in the end, well, Mormons.

Yes, everthing will be different now. You are building something new. You are not fixing anything because you can't. It can still be good, very good.

If he just has questions, answer them truthfully and gently. Reassure him that you love him and you realize he taught you Mormonism with all good intentions. Let him know that you intend to be the very best man you can be and he will always be a role model. Tell him you love him and hope he can keep an open mind as you will do the same for him.

I hope he doesn't try to use guilt or intimidation. If he does, just say that those won't work on you as you are no longer a child and you cannot unlearn what you have learned just because it makes him unhappy. You have found truth and he will just have to accept that you have the right to choose your own path in life even if it is wrong or doesn't go along with is personal beliefs. That's about all you can do.

Good for you.

Watch out for shame. My sense is that you are a very fine individual. Your supposed sins (probably all very normal behaviors for someone your age) don't make you unqualified to recognize that the Book of Mormon is hogwash. It is false, regardless of ANYONE'S personal life.

Also watch out for guilt. It's okay to acknowledge this is hard for your dad, but YOU aren't crushing your dad. You can lay that at the feet of his false religion. You merely recognized the truth.

It's not right for kids to spend their lives protecting their parents' tender hearts from difficult truths. Rather, parents are supposed to protect their kids. That includes protecting them from abusive cult practices, like excessive control, manipulation,shaming, and misleading information that negatively impacts their lives.

I'm not saying that to slam your dad, BTW, or to make you angry at him. I'm trying to point out that there is a strange role reversal going on here. I recognize it because I have lived it, and it's not healthy for either you OR your parents. It's not your responsibility to shelter your parents, and you should NOT feel bad for sharing the truth. How he deals with it is his responsibility. Of course it's natural to feel bad when you see how sad he is. But sharing the painful truth gives you both an opportunity to share information and create a more honest relationship. Who knows, it may even open up your dad's mind and free HIM from the cult, as well. With 2 sons on their way out, he might be ready to open his mind.

Best of luck! You're a great kid.

Adding to this thought... I have found it very useful on breaking away from parental or other guilt is that parents are people too...not to see them strictly as their "role" in your life, but as ordinary people. When you take someone out of the prescribed "role" you (or life or them) have assigned them, and look through another lens... Then you can sort of mitigate the guilt. They are just people too with their own faults and issues...those don't have to be yours nor do you have to accept their experience or advice more than your own. Once you see your parents or others as people and not the construct of their role then their issues don't necessarily become more important than your own, and you can put the responsibility of their feelings back on them and not on yourself. Sort of isomeric, but it has helped me and hope it makes sense and helps you.

Let him know you have taken the useful aspects of what you've been taught and will go forward with confidence. They will be afraid you will reject them. Make it clear your love for them is not dependent on Mormonism.

They will be sad. They need to let go of the fantasy life they had planned (and for your gay brother also). It will be better than their dream because you will both be authentic sons.

Don't pack for any guilt trips. Remain positive and upbeat. Your dad knows you are a deliberate thinker and have not arrived at this decision without careful study. One day he may be open to hearing about your research. Good luck!

The religious guilt programmed into each of our psych leaves as the fear leaves. The fear leaves over a period of time as you realize how wrong the church is.

You are now "condemned to freedom" That is a quote from Sarte but it means you are free but also responsible for everything. Daunting to think about at times but also empowering and liberating.

It is important, vital really, to remember that many of us leave BECAUSE of the gospel.

The church's goals, doctrines, teachings and practices are now in direct opposition of the scriptures we read and the things we valued growing up.

The church is just icky and not based on Smith's teachings, or the bible, or ethics, or science, or christianity in general.

I left becuase the church was not good enough for me.

If he truly loves you the real question is this:

Is he sad because you will not be part of the one true church of Jesus Christ, or because of how he will look as a parent?

For example if you told him everything and said there is no changing your mind, would he reply with"

"Just stay and don't say anything. You can believe anything in your mind you want to, just don't tell anyone."

This is typical and the true evil found in Mormonism and other religious cults.

What you say and how you follow is more important than what you truly believe.

Good luck Cold-Dodger

I remember trying to get the courage up to tell my Mom about my unbelief. But my wife just stepped in and did it for me with out asking. Lucky me eh.

Hope your conversation goes well and that he will know you are still a good person.

I feel you Cold-Dodger. I was "led astray" by pornography too; or at least that's what every Mormon who really knows me would say. I don't see it that way, though, and I hope you don't either. Masturbation is normal and healthy. Pornography is normal, as long as you don't let it warp your view of reality or consume you. It's really Mormons who have the problem, with their repression of all things sexual. Fortunately I learned very early on not to tell the church "authorities" anything; in my mind it's never been any of their business. I'm sorry you had to incriminate yourself.

Funny enough I don't think my parents even realize that I kept up with my "dirty habits" after they scolded me and sent me packing to the bishop to "confess" when I was 12 or 13. I think my dad found out later, but then I found HIM with pornography once too so I think we established a mutual understanding. My mom is strangely terrified of anything sexual though; she sits there and watches movies and shows with gore and language, but the moment there's a bared breast or a steamy scene she has to fast-forward through it. I don't know how I even exist!

You probably exist because of a hole in a sheet, and that only because it is a commandment to mutiply and replenish the earth. Suffice it to say, it probably didn't discord with your mother's profile of squeemishness and guilt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 08:48PM by Cold-Dodger.

Thanks for this incredibly disturbing picture. No wonder I'm an only child.

I feel really bad for my dad sometimes because I'm pretty sure he's been forced into an asexual life by my mom. I wasn't really surprised when I walked in on him watching porn one day when I came home from college early. I wish I could make him understand it's okay and I never judged him for it -- I understood! But we never talked about it.

Recently I found some X-rated movies on one of his server drives. Good thing my mom isn't tech-savvy enough to snoop around like I do. It's good to know he's getting release somehow, I guess.

Ya, I don't glorify the porn industry by any stretch of the imagination, but at its simplest it is no different than fantasizing.

It's cruel enough to make people feel guilty about sexual activity, but to make them feel guilty for wanting it and fantasizing about it to any degree is just evil. So many Mormon women are turned asexual by the trauma they suffered as children and still suffer from the shame conditioning which makes them pounce on their men for showing the least interest in sex.

I'm thinking: give him a half hour alone at home ever now and then, and if you want to be an ice queen all the time, then you don't have to worry about him bugging you when you don't want to.

Pornography is still a moral question — it can go too far — but religion, especially he Mormon one, robs the discussion of all rationality and pragmatism.

> He understands that I have had a hard
> time, but he blames most of it on the drug that is
> pornography (since that was a source of much drama
> not long ago. He was confidant, my 'transparency'
> buddy. We've had long talks about life and the
> universe.).

. . .

>
> I don't know if he can't help but dismiss what I say
> as an elaborate attempt to justify myself in sin.
> In a way he has a point: I have lived in great
> dread that nothing I could ever say will ever
> surmount the the vast amount of dirt I have
> incriminated myself with to every priesthood
> leader I've ever had within a ten mile radius of
> where I grew up.

. . .

This is the typical, even universal, Mormon approach in such
situations. It will stop being about the Church or the BOM or
Joseph Smith and start being about you. Your character will be
attacked, you will be grilled about your behavior. You will be
told YOU need to pray more; YOU need to study the scriptures
more; YOU need to meet with the Bishop and confess more etc.

This is the Mormon version of "attack the messenger." Don't
fall for it. Learn to recognize an insult as an insult even if
it's couched in passive aggressive terms--even if it's
disguised as loving concern for you.

It's not about your character or amount of prayer or scripture
reading or masturbation or lack of it. It's about the fact
that the Church is false. It's about the fact that the BOM is
not ancient scripture. It's about the fact that the BOA has
been proven fake.

It's not about you. Don't let them make it about you. That's
the evil thing that Mormons do.