Parental discipline and corporal punishment comes up here from time to time and I remember the subject being nearly flogged to death each time.

My Mom's favored method was to make me go out and cut a willow switch and bring it to her. If I brought her one too small, she would make me get a bigger one. The ritual was always a worse mindfuk than the actual beating.

She told us stories of her father taking an older brother out to the barn to be 'thrashed'. The other siblings would cower in the house as screams of agony rang out. No doubt they were always on their best behavior after such a demonstration of fatherly wrath.

My Dad was an ass-kicker. Thankfully, getting a boot up my butt was pretty rare. The last time was as a teen when I grabbed his foot and yanked up, nearly knocking him off his feet and that ended that.

I never stuck my daughter once her whole life. I only hit my son once when he was 3 and I think I was more horrified than he so I resolved never to do it again.

They have both turned out great, in many ways arguably better than their dad.

So how did you guys get hit?

And what are your views on CP?

The "rod" my parents used was psychological. Very subtle signals of disappointment and shame. There were times I would have preferred a beating.

I was both spanked and emotionally abused by an alcoholic parent. I once got my mouth washed out with soap for repeating the phrase god damn it, something I heard my parents say a lot. Thankfully, the spare the rod bullshit has been debunked by most child psychologists.

That said, I do appreciate parents who provide boundaries and discipline for their kids. For the record, when my teenage son dropped an F-bomb in front of me a few years ago, I laughed and said, "okay, I think I get the picture, now let's not hurt your Mother's feelings, okay!" "Okay." There are other ways than violence or humiliation to get a point across. The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 11:29PM by byuboner.

Stakes to hold up the tomatoes. And a literal ass kicking from my father's steel toed cowboy boots



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 11:29PM by Itzpapalotl.

While physical abuse of children gets the attention, I wonder if lack of discipline isn't a bigger problem. My daughters baby-sat some kids of a psychologist, but quit after hearing them telling their mom F-you several times without repercussion.

Yes, without discipline, children become abusers. And at some point, to have discipline, you are going to have to deny them something that they care about, but many call that abuse.

I recall after months of trying an assortment of ways to stop my 12 year old daughter from fighting with her mom and me, I told her if she didn't want to be part of the family and show respect, she could get out of the house. So I locked her out. After a night of sleeping outside, it was amazing how her attitude changed. Never had problems with other kids, but some are strong willed.

I would probably be thrown in jail if certain authorities knew what I did.

I like you, Shummy.

And I hate ass-kickin' fathers

Human

I work in the same preschool that my daughters attended many years ago. Corporal punishment is not allowed in my state even with parental permission. At the age we're dealing with, corporal punishment basically should be a swat on the Pullup but I'm guessing that would mean psychological damage to some people. What I see is children who know even at the age of 2 that there are no understandable consequences for bad behavior and after a while it can become easy to start to dislike a child for bratty behaviors that would have been stopped in their tracks by a swat on the Pullup. The worst is parents who try to reason with their 2 year old by saying "now tell daddy why you bit your friends. You know it's not nice to bite your friends. Let's go talk about it over ice cream..." FIVE FREAKING HOURS after Junior took a chunk out of his friends on the playground. For the record I wasn't spanked. My parents used terrible words.

I got soap shoved in my mouth for saying "goddamn that hot wheels track hurt." Then I got hit with the hot wheels track again for saying "this soap tastes like shit."

I'll admit it, I was a spoiled kid. Sheltered too. My mom slapped me ONCE for refusing to put away my toys. But it was mostly guilt trips, stuff like that. My parents could guilt me into anything.

I was really obedient my whole childhood. It wasn't until high school that I started breaking a way a little, looking seriously into the church. And I couldn't tell them I was atheist until almost 30.

Spared and spoiled are the same thing. If you were spared the rod then you were spoiled.

My dad was a spanker. The last time he hit me, I was almost 21 years old. I told him I'd have him arrested if he ever hit me again. He didn't.

My Grandmother used a raspberry vine, and if I got her a bad one, she'd beat me with that one until it fell apart, and make me go get her a 'good' one to continue with.

That pales in comparison to my mother who used a belt, and we're talking one of those wide 70's belts, full force on the back.

Swats were still used in school, and I got plenty of those too.

I'm a sullen, angry individual to this day. Gee I wonder why...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 04:26AM by brothernotofjared.

The title of this post asks if we were spared the rod or spoiled, as if the two are opposite...but in the Biblical context to be spared the rod IS to be spoiled. To "spare" means to not use something, i.e. if you have spare change, that means you haven't spent it yet.

I suspect it was a typo.

I also suspect that my parents were the worst possible i.e. be inconsistent: sometimes use force for no obvious reason and then do nothing for something that was obviously bad.

Spared, but not spoiled.

I may have had the odd spank when I was little, but I don't remember it. No beatings. but clear boundaries.

Seriously, there are so many ways to discipline without using pain or being abusive. I smacked my daughter maybe twice when she was little. She ignored it. I was traumatised!

Time out/naughty step is far more effective! But you have GOT to be consistent. Consistency isn't hard, but it seems to be a concept a lot of people struggle to understand. And without consistency, NO disciplinary method will work.

I have no patience at all with the idea that corporal punishment is necessary in schools, as if its absence equals lack of discipline.

My dad had been a teacher for some years when "the belt" was banned, and he recalls one of his colleagues saying "how are you going to keep them in order now?" My Dad said "I haven't used the belt for years." In his opinion, needing to use corporal punishment was a sign of failure as a teacher. I agree.

I also remember a nasty preacher that used to come to my old church recounting stories of him belting pupils when he was a teacher. He had clearly ENJOYED it. That alone is reason enough for me to not want it back!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 06:49AM by finnan haddie.

I got a good deal of physical stuff. Most of it my father disguised as rough play. "Tickling" that left bruises, "tag, you're it" that sent you bouncing off the wall. He used to catch us walking around barefoot, push us down on the ground and chant, "this little piggy went...uh oh spaghettioh!" while taking ahold of a single toe and snapping his arm down. Visualize a Harry Potter wand flick with a six-year-old girl's toe between his fingers. Most often the joints would crack and I'd hurt from stretched tendons but each toe has been broken at least once. My mom wrapped them for me. No doctor visit, of course.

There was psychological/emotional abuse too. Strange nights where he'd wake us up at one a.m. to practice evacuating in case of nuclear war. He'd even have us hug our pets goodbye since they were dead weight and wouldn't survive. Or he'd talk to us for hours about child molestation, what men would do to us (in graphic detail), and that we were jail bait and asking for it.

Of course it was he we actually had to fear. He used to lurk in various hiding places, wait until I came out of the shower, then rip off my towel. I had to stand in the hallway naked while he looked me over for "skin cancer". He'd make appreciative comments and wolf whistle while I tried to keep covered up and begged to go into my room. I tried to bring my clothes with me into the bathroom, but he'd steal them. Of course nobody had a locking door on their room or the bathroom, except him. He even used to get in the shower with me...I'd huddle in the corner with my eyes shut.

This went on until I moved out at 17. Even after that, he'd say and do disgusting, inappropriate things, and exercise ridiculous amounts of control. My husband encouraged me to cut off contact once we had our kids. What I couldn't do for myself was easy to do for their sake. I kept in touch with my Mom, but only spoke with my father a few times since.

People ask my opinion of what should happen to abusers/molesters and I say they should get a bullet to the skull. I know this is extreme, but it's my honest opinion after all I suffered when I was so very young and vulnerable.

"People ask my opinion of what should happen to abusers/molesters and I say they should get a bullet to the skull. I know this is extreme, but it's my honest opinion after all I suffered when I was so very young and vulnerable." - passing through


Great comment!

The number of members in the LDS Church would be cut in half.

I was fortunate, sparred, spoiled, and I know it!

But, my heathen parents who never went to church brought us up without corporal punishment or harshness. My Pop had a temper and would use some pretty colorful words from time to time, but, he never struck any of us. He smoked, drank, and associated with some rather unsavory characters, but, family came first and he was devoted as they come. He mentored a number of young athletes growing up and never turned anyone away who needed a place to stay. Their house was the crash pad for lots of kids who weren't accepted in their own home, all kinds of troubled kids who grew up in religious families, even LDS kids.

Did I mention my Pop's an Atheist?

I think God loves Atheists!

I got spanked on the bare butt with a hand, or with the back of a hairbrush (not the bristles side). Then I had to stand in a corner behind a screen until I was told that I could come out.

I got sent to my room a lot too.

In those days, it was normal. I remember standing around with my friends, comparing stories.

"Hi, what's up?"

"Oh, I got spanked today."

"Really? Me too. Why did you get spanked?"

Spared not spoiled. I had an idylic childhood filled with lots of

cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents, love and laughter.

My daddy was rich and Momma good looking..... well he wasnt

totally rich but close. It was a wonderful childhood.

Needless to say I believe corporal punishment is wrong,

demeaning,objectifying and cruel. I never hit my kids never

allowed anyone to hit them.I once told a school principal who

had threatened to spank my son , that whatever she did to him,

I'd do to her. She never spanked him. I often wonder how

people can bitch and complain about the violence in the world

and use violence against their own flesh and blood. Children

learn what they live. I learned love.

It had it's good points, and bad points.

Our family was chaotic, and I learned to keep off the radar. I did way more than my share of family chores and hid the rest of the time. I slept in the garage with the dog when I could.

I didn't get caught - so really no punishment. I was a good worker.

I guess I was spared and maybe a bit spoiled. Zero beatings or any other physical or psychological abuse. Dad tried to keep us boys in line but understood my little brother and I were no ones to toe the MORG party line and were hell raisers from the time we got our drivers' licences at 16. We didn't go our of our way to anger him or Mom either but did our own thing regardless. Neither of us went on missions. When Dad asked if we wanted to we said no. He never told us we had to or be disowned. He loved and respected us too much for that to have ever happened. I was lucky.

RB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 09:16PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

RB,
This is so refreshing!

Free Agency.

Your Dad really believed in practicing what he preached and allowed you to make decisions on your own.

I love Free Agency!

Not many LDS people follow it.

My mother was a frustrated TBM housewife who almost daily took her frustrations out on my ass. I once kept track that in some form I was hit, slapped, smacked, beaten, etc. for 32 straight days. When I woke up each morning I had no idea what awaited me when I walked into the kitchen for breakfast. When I came home from school and went to open the front door, I feared what beast would be on the other side. I grew up in a house of fear.

Besides her hands, wooden spoons and rubber spatulas (stung like hell!!) were her weapons of choice. She even kept a wooden spoon in her purse for beatings if we were away from home. Oh, and if a wooden spoon ever broke while she was using it on us...all hell would break loose. Each year at school during parent-teacher conferences, she would tell my teachers that if I ever got out of line they had her permission to beat me.

My father was afraid of her too. When the beatings began he would flee the house. Years later he told me that he couldn't remember many days when we left for school without being in tears. He also apologized for not stopping her. The most frustrating thing was that I was a good kid. I was too scared to be otherwise. I couldn't understand or process why I was being beaten up when I was such a good kid. When I confronted my mother years later, she proudly proclaimed that it was BECAUSE of the way she treated me that I turned out to be such a good man. I have often wondered how different I would be today WITHOUT having gone through that pain, fear, and horror.

I know one way I am different...I broke the chain. I never treated my kids that way. NEVER!! I once pulled my mother aside and told her that if she EVER laid a hand on my children the way she treated me, I would return not with a wooden spoon, but with a baseball bat and beat her senseless. I teased my kids telling them that according to shrinks there is a good chance that abused kids turn into abusing adults. I tell them they were lucky. LOL!!

It saddens me to hear of parents taking their own frustrations out on their kids.

So where do we learn parenting skills? From our parents, that's who.

Breaking the cycle of violence which traumatizes and alienates our kids is tough, but we owe it to our posterity.

Building a better world, one child at a time.

My mom used to slap me across the face when I said or did things she didn't like. What was worse was the constant yelling and berating. She liked to pick on my appearance when she was angry. My face was always too round and my hair too flat. I learned to fear her.

My mom has changed for the better over the years and I have a good relationship with her now, but the emotional scars of my childhood remain.

When I became a parent and experienced the "mama bear" love I had for my child, it made me wonder how my mother could so often treat me the way she did. I still don't understand it. The good news is that I didn't repeat how I was treated. I don't yell at or hit my kids and never have.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mom has changed for the better over the years
> and I have a good relationship with her now, but
> the emotional scars of my childhood remain.

Yep, I could definitely say the same. My Mom was highly critical, but has mellowed out a lot. It helped that when I got older, I said I wouldn't put up with that anymore and I didn't. If she criticized me, I just turned around and walked away without a word. It kind of took the wind out of her sails.

But yeah, although I'm very grateful that my Mom and I have a good relationship now, the emotional scars do remain.

Dad was easy passive. Mom was the punisher. Holy shiz did that woman have a temper. Same here...willow switch that she would choose. Frankly, whatever she could grab, wooden spoon, ruler, and later dining room chair. Mind you I am 6' 250 pounds, and mom is 4'11'' 95 pound. She only did it when needed, and I was a brat at times.

Wooden spoon up until I grew to 6'3 and took it away from her. F-corporal punishment.

I was spoiled, spoiled, spoiled....My father gave me anything i wanted: horses, cars, payed off my school loans. I even sent him my many, many parking tickets!

He loved me and my children. He gave my children every single thing on their christmas lists, to my dismay.

It was because of the way he was raised.

My parents were strict, taught mental and physical toughness, and occassionally administred CP. That type of upbringing has served me well into adulthood and I am thankful for it. Seeing all the weak, mentally messed up, undisciplined, and unethical people over the years have convinced me they were right. Not perfect, of course, but no parent (including yours-truly) always gets it right.

My parents did a little of both.

Mom was much stricter than dad. And yet I had a very unrestricted childhood in that my siblings and I were free to roam the countryside around our home, and were constantly exploring.

I was overly protective with my children owing to the very permissive environment I grew up in. My children grew up in NYC, so I had to be by necessity, like the other parents of my generation. As a child growing up in Idaho I was nearly abducted by a stranger one time. That left an indelible mark on me, and maybe why I was over protective of my children as they were growing up.

Spanking was limited to toddlerhood, for going into the street or poking one of their little fingers into a light socket. As they got older, it was more time-outs, or withholding of privileges in high school.

My children were quite well behaved growing up, so I didn't have some of the problems other parents dealt with. It was post-college I've had problems with one of my children. But that is from an underlying condition that developed in her 20's.

Not disciplining a child is one of the worst forms of child abuse in existance. It must be done judiciously and with care though. Any parent who does not provide guidance is a fool.

My dad had a temper, and when I screwed up I got the leather belt. Didn't happen too often, but enough to fear it.

In high school I became a star athlete, wrestling and football. One day at dinner he pushed me too far and I pushed back...literally. Turned into an actual fight, and it was over pretty quick. He never tried any shit like that again.

My dad was a bully and there is only one way to handle a bully.

Abused.

Physically and mentally.

By both parents, and most often by my mentally ill older brother. My brother got a beating whenever he was caught swearing, and also if he was caught going into the Black neighborhoods--true story!

He never got punished for beating and torturing me, or for breaking my belongings.

The cult didn't mention anything about the abuse of women and children, in those days. It did preach heavily against swearing, smoking, and drinking. Tattoos and piercings were not yet the seriously-important religious issues, that they are today.

Yes, I blame the Mormon cult for indoctrinating my parents and my brother. The cult was strictly authoritarian. It probably still is, though I'm free of it, now.