...because my family doesn't believe it's possible. They keep tearfully pleading with me not to "give up my eternal family" and "your children won't be teachable for long" and such rot, and although I know it's wrong it still hurts because I am still healing. It's like mercilessly poking a bruise or ogling a scar.

So... can anyone out there give me a vision for raising my children without religion? How did it turn out? Are your kids (as I would hope and imagine) able to
-think for themselves
-have empathy for others
-have good work ethic
-be happy
-appreciate beauty
-be emotionally stable
-be mentally stable
-make healthy life choices
-be happily independant
-recover from mistakes

etc etc? This may seem silly, since I really do believe that raising kids without religion is better than raising them with, but I am hurting right now and would really appreciate encouragement. Thank you so much!

I have three kids. One 19, one 14, one 3 months.
Religion has never been a part of their lives.
My "philosophy" raising them was to encourage critical thinking, curiosity, honesty, and kindness. None of those require a religion or a belief in a "god."

Through the years, my kids would sometimes come home after encountering peers who were very religious, and tried to get them to go to church with them and do other activities. My approach was always the same -- talk with them and encourage them to analyze what the situation was, and decide for themselves if this was something they wanted to do. And the result was always the same -- my kids didn't see a need for religion, and with few exceptions didn't accept such invitations (the few times they did, they *always* reported being pressured to believe, hearing claims they knew were false [like young-earth creationist stuff], etc. and didn't go back).

My 19 year old son graduated high school last June with honors. He is popular, intelligent, thoughtful, curious, and kind -- just as I'd hoped he would be. He's currently attending college pursuing a law degree.

My 14 year old is a freshman in high school. She's had straight A's her entire school history. She volunteers with several groups (Rotary, UNICEF, etc.). She's popular, intelligent, thoughtful, curious, and kind -- just as I'd hoped she would be.

Neither have had any problems with drugs or alcohol or the law. I doubt they will...but if they do I'll support them, and help them think through why such things aren't very smart.

I have the same high hopes for my new one. Experience tells me odds are good she'll have a similar experience. :)

Religion doesn't raise good or bad children. That is a red herring.

PARENTS raise good or bad children. Those parents can be religious, or they can be Pagans, or they can be athiests.

That's what I told my mom when she tried to tell me that her kids would've been losers without the influence of the church in our lives. I told her we turned out to be good kids because we had great parents. Not because we went to church once a week.

I have 4 kids from my first marriage. I tried to be active while the older 3 were growing up so I did all the idiotic things morgbots do to try to save their kids. None of them were really active in the church but they got plenty of Sunday School and their heads filled with shit until I finally left the church. All three of them have issues that I can trace back to the mind fu** that is the church and I blame myself for that because I allowed it to happen.

By the time my youngest was about 10 I had left the church so he was raised completely different. I talked to him openly about all matters related to life. When he got old enough I told him that masterbation is perfectly normal and to never let anyone convince him differently. I told him if he wants to experiment with sex go ahead just remember that STDs are dangerous and some cannot be cured so to use his head. I also told him that if he got a girl pregnant I would make him be responsible for that baby until the baby was 18 so he better be either careful or prepared because it can happen and he would have no clue until it was too late.

I also talked to him about the other stuff too like drugs and alcohol and we just talked about the dangers etc.

He has tried smoking he hates it. He has tried alcohol and hates it. He has been the most responsible of all 4 children and is the most well adjusted emotionally. He never was mind fu**ed by the church and grew up with an open mind and with no guilt trips. He is an amazing young man now and although he is the youngest he is the one the other kids go to for advice and help. Its has been pretty amazing watching the difference between him and the other kids.

I am now remarried again and have an 8 year old daughter. My wife and I are raising her with no religious affiliation and so far she is an amazing kid too. Kind, loving, smart as a whip. She is going to be an amazing person as well and I have to say it is a huge advantage she has growing up around all those mormon kids and she comes home and asks us questions about baptism, praying, god and the likes that she hears the kids talking about. We answer her honestly about all her questions and she just accepts it and moves on. She will never ever as long as she is under 18 receive the mormon mind fu**.

Kids are smarter than most people give them credit for and they get it. They know when they are being manipulated or guilt tripped and that is why mormon kids rebel. I will never forget just before I left the church I was first councilor in the high priests group. The stake pres at that time was a wealthy successful businessman who lived not far from where I live right now. His son went on a mission and it was the talk of the whole stake when he came home. He was a fine looking young man who looked to be the next GA or something. Within one year of his return from his mission that was advertised through the whole stake, he was a drug addict, in jail serving time and his life totally destroyed. I just found that interesting that after a life in the church with the appearance of being on the fast track to high positions in the church and once he got home and was free to chose for himself, he chose drugs.

Being in the church does not give kids any advantages period. In fact if you consider all the people who are teaching them and what those people may be teaching them every Sunday you have to wonder how any of them make it to adulthood with their minds and lives in tact.

My atheist wife and I have two children, sons now 42 and 48. They were raised without religion. Their mother stayed at home until each was old enough for pre-school. They were taught to have fun, to have small chores, to eat healthy, to be nice and polite. They were taught to be curious about things. They learned to read before they started school. They did well in school. Both obtained advanced degrees. Both work in good professions. Neither got involved in drugs. Neither has any interest in religion, although the oldest married a luke-warm Catholic girl who had their children baptized as babies. They don't go to church.

Of course they have made mistakes in life, but nothing that they were unable to overcome.

All in all, we feel that they turned out well.

For problems raising children as Mormon, see my article at http://packham.n4m.org/children.htm

Recent research showed that children raised in a strong religious environment have more difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction than children raised with no religion.

Makes sense: if you can believe in the talking snake and the magic apple, or the big boat with Noah's private zoo, and angels bringing a dead Jew back to life, you will likely be able to believe in witches, elves, fairies, giant beanstalks and used car salesmen.

My kid is in his forties. He has seldom been in a church.

Happy, married, great job, incredible ethics. He is a compassionate person who befriended outcast kids starting in grade school. My biggest fear for him was that some of his offbeat friends would take advantage, but he is also smart, perceptive and strong.

Kids learn from watching adults around them, not from being lectured and yelled at.

Raising kids outside the church was easier. They detect the lack of authenticity in church.

I left when kids were small with a large family. Best decision I've ever made. They're all grown now and highly successful
in a material way which doesn't really matter. More importantly our family is very close because we're less judgemental and more kind and respectful of others. Families really are about time and the tscc robs that from you.

I've got two teenaged daughters, one 14, a sophomore in high school and an 18 year old freshman in college.

Both are healthy, happy, well-adjusted young women. They are both excellent students.

The older is pre-med and is an accomplished violinist and a black belt in martial arts. She volunteered with a dog rescue during junior high and high school and is doing some volunteer work in college.

The younger is a dancer and a singer. She's trying to figure out what she wants to major in when she goes to college. We volunteer with a food bank together.

So far, no problems with drink or drugs. They've had boyfriends on and off in healthy relationships. They are awesome kids.

Mormons refuse to recognize that most people are good. There are good and bad Mormons. There are good and bad baptists. There are good and bad atheists.

Few of my friends growing up were religious at all. Most of them turned out just fine. All of my member friends left the church (I was the last one), and they're all doing well. None of my coworkers are LDS and few are religious, but they're all happy, healthy, productive people...and most of them have raised kids that are doing great things.

My kids are still too young to say, but I hope they turn out okay. I have no reason to believe they won't. I'm more worried about them being sucked into the "church" and being miserable, judgmental jerks.

My niece and nephew were raised almost entirely without religion. They are both responsible, kind, empathetic, and hard-working. There have never been any issues with substance abuse or addiction. Both imbibe alcohol in a responsible fashion. Both attended top colleges. Each has received both regional and national recognition in his or her line of work.

Something that distinguishes them is that they both broke the mold to a lesser (my nephew) or larger (my niece) degree. They are not afraid to think for themselves, and to decide on a unique course of action and pursue it vigorously. They are interesting people who are strong individualists. Conforming merely for the sake of conforming is of no interest to them.

I have 2 kids, both brought up outside religion.

One academic and sports overachiever.

One hell raiser, has been since she could toddle. Here's the thing, she's a really really good person, her hell raising harms no one, she's doing fine in school. But it would have been murder trying to raise her in any conservative religion given her love of annoying authority, piercings and alcohol.

Very anon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...her hell raising harms no one, she's doing
> fine in school. But it would have been murder
> trying to raise her in any conservative religion
> given her love of annoying authority, piercings
> and alcohol.

You nailed it -- she's successful, happy, well-adjusted, well-liked, a great person. So who cares if she raises a little hell? Why, the morg would, of course. Never mind all that good stuff. Lots of other "conservative religions" would as well.

And that's why I want no part of 'em :) I'd hang with your daughter any day, though!

I have a son who thinks his power is in his hair--his long,curly hair. He has a large tattoo. He smokes pot (legally)--he has not followed his siblings TBM path but they all love each other. He is my most "spiritual" child. He works with kids with special needs and has a gift of kindness and generosity. He hasn't been to church since he was very young. I am pretty sure he is going to leave this world a better place.

Our kids, now 36 and 39 never went to a regular church service while they grew up. My wife is Catholic so Christmas and Easter were celebrated, blessings were offered over meals but we never had family prayers. My son (36) married a somewhat religious woman and joined the Lutheran church a couple years back with his wife and three kids. He did it as his wife's behest but has told me he thinks organized religious is bullshit too. He is a hard worker and wonderful husband and father. Our daughter who has a profound developmental disability has no concept of God.

Ron Burr

my parents were both raised in atheist homes. They met in college and have been married for 40 years. They became LDS when I was a baby, before neither had ever set foot in any church except for a couple funerals and a wedding or two.

They aren't perfect but they are both honest, highly intelligent, caring, sweet, polite, hardworking people and they did a good job raising my sibling and I. We are both honest, hardworking, college graduates, we both own our houses, pay our taxes, yada yada. My parents taught us to take care of ourselves and always finish higher education, have a marketable skill set ready to go, raised both of us to be very independent.

I have known hundreds and hundreds of people over the decades--none of them Mormon and very few very religious. They are wonderful. They love their families. They are decent and hardworking and empathetic and just doing their best.

The arrogance to think that people can't be wonderful and vibrant, "even praiseworthy and of good report" without Mormonism or any religion is just insulting.

At this point I could learn more from sit-coms on TV than I could learn in Sacrament Meeting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2015 07:35PM by blueorchid.

I have no children, but was raised essentially religion-less (our folks said we could, "make up your own damned minds when you're adults". :) Lessee:
1. Oldest brother: served in the Army Airborne. Got out and became a "finish" carpenter. Has worked hard all his life and done well for himself. Agnostic.
2. Younger-older brother: served in the Army. Soon to retire as a police officer. Got "hormonally baptized" as a Baptist (due to his girlfriend of the time), but nowadays an agnostic.
3. Me, baby of the family. Never have done any illegal drugs (including marijuana), worked as a police dispatcher. Have had one traffic ticket in my life. Atheist since the age of 12 caused by reading the bible cover-to-cover.

Yup. You need that old-time religion to be an honest, hard-working member of society. *rolls eyes hard enough to sprain 'em*

Three kids 35 to 40. All university educated and in good jobs. All married, partners also in professional careers. No one married before 30. All lived with partners before marriage with my approval, not that they needed or asked for it. Seven kids between them, 2, 3, 2. comfortable middle class lives. All of us close, lots of get togethers, share an inherited family cottage and not one arguement over it. Aunts and uncles lovely to their nieces and nephews. Help each other when required house moving etc.

No religious education at all.

One incident of shoplifting as a young teenager no other problems with the law. No drugs (maybe a little pot in uni), social drinkers, no smokers.

They all have their own social groups but still spend lots of time together especially holidays and summer.

My kids aren't much different than my atheist friends' kids. I could have written the above about all of them. No stress between generations, just fun times and support during harder times.

I laugh when I hear religious types try to scare members that kids don't turn out well in non-religious families. It is a big fat lie. Seems to me I have been reading about some recent studies showing the same thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2015 09:50AM by annieg.

Thanks for asking this question alyssum. I wanted to know too.

You might enjoy reading this article: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

I too have had family members question how we will possible raise good children...BECAUSE WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE, THAT'S HOW! My favorite was when someone tried to argue against my ethics. I explained it in the following terms using my preschooler in the analogy: What is more ethical? My child shares her toy because I've bribed her with a cookie and then threatened her with timeout if she doesn't share (heaven/hell reward system from religious authority)? Or is it more ethical if my child shares her toy because of a sense of what's fair or even empathy because another child was sad (empathy based morality)? Yes, there is a place for rule following based on a system of reward/punishment because of a lack a maturity, but no one will argue that's its a higher ethical standard than empathy based morals.

my kids turned out good enough.

They are just fine.

Everybody, thank you SO much for your encouragement and the time it took. It means a lot to me. I feel much uplifted!

I think my children were born independent and able to think for themselves. We raised them as Mormons, until the youngest was 8, but they never did believe the Joseph Smith story. They were naturally not racist. They had too many good non-Mormon friends and teachers, to believe that Mormons were better than everyone else, and that Mormons were going to a special heaven, where non-Mormons were not allowed. That's the way they put it.

I got divorced and moved to Utah, and none of us were prepared to the crazy fundie ideas. We thought the Utah Mormons were nuts--until we realized that this was the norm. These were ideas directly from the Prophet and the Apostles here. Yikes! The SS and Primary teachers taught my kids that because we were a divorced family, that we would not be together in the hereafter. They also taught that my children were still sealed to my wife-beater ex-husband, to whom I was married for a little over a year. I got a divorce to save my life, but was never granted a temple divorce--until I resigned from the cult, and proclaimed the marriage null and void and of the Devil, and never of God.

One Saturday, I realized that the Mormon church was the only thing that caused us to argue. I sat the kids down, and asked them why they hated church so much--I really wanted to know. They told me that they had been physically abused by the priesthood leaders. They leaders had broken into our house and into the boys' rooms, pulled them out of bed onto the floor, kicked them around on the floor, and shoved them into their closet to force them to get dressed. They kicked them in the backside, on our stairs, and pushed them into the car. They drove them to church, when they were only half-dressed, and forced them to stay there--to be ridiculed by the other boys and girls. This happened several times. One of my daughters told us that the bishop's ugly older son had molested her, when she was 11. They were at a church campout, and she was asleep in her sleeping bag. It woke her up and she screamed. The bishop, the bishop's daughter, and many others heard her, and witnessed what had just happened. They bishop threatened the kids not to tell anyone. My sons were also threatened not to tell. Within seconds, WE WERE OUT, FOREVER. I told them they never had to go to church, again. They didn't, except one daughter got engaged to an ex-Mormon, who turned around, and forced her into a temple marriage. That's why I need RFM so much.

Anyway, my children never got on drugs or alcohol, like the Mormon neighbor kids did. They didn't get pregnant. We went to the Lutheran church for a while, and my sons joined a neighborhood non-denominational Christian Scout troop, and became Eagle Scouts. They had some fabulous camping trips, to Yosemite, Wind Rivers, Catalina Island, and Yellowstone. They were on soccer, football, baseball teams. Piano, guitar, singing, dancing lessons. Good students. Had a lot of non-Mormon friends, many of which are still life-long friends. The boys had a two paper routes, and the girls did babysitting. They all went to the University of Utah, and worked their way through school. They are out-going, honest, happy, healthy and fit, kind to others, loving, and generous. Really! I'm so proud of them! Two live within two blocks of me, and the others less than 5 miles away. They have good jobs, which they like, are married, have children, own their own homes, travel, etc. We are very close as a family, and we have lots of parties and celebrations together. I love to play with and babysit the grandchildren.

I must admit, that it pleases me no end, to gloat in the faces of those who have shunned us. Some of the Mormons have tried to find out how much money my children make--they see their nice homes and fancy cars, and wonder how ex-Mormons can be happy and successful. My kids are successful because they have worked hard all their lives, and have integrity and stability. No MLM's, no nepotism, no schemes--they are just good people. Mormons are always looking for shortcuts, and ways to circumvent the law. Being straightforward wins every time. In your face!

I have five kids, now in their mid thirties and forties. We bailed out of the cult when they were in their teens. All were "A" students. Never involved in drugs, alcohol, tobacco.

All are happily married (no divorces). All waited until in their thirties before starting families.

All are successful, happy, wonderful,-think for themselves -have empathy for others -have good work ethic -appreciate beauty -be emotionally stable -are mentally stable ( do not use - never have used anti-depressant meds) -make healthy life choices - are happily independent and -recover from mistakes. ALL WITHOUT RELIGION.

Doesn't mean our lives have been perfect or without pain. We just have been able to cope with life without letting outside demands (religion, people,) get to us. I meet more and more people who are experiencing the same. Life is good!

One of my non-Mormon kids is not mentally stable. But he was so worse off under the church. I have three that are not members now, and they have all grown considerably now that they are not fettered by meaningless little laws meant only to foster Mormon obedience.

MY kids were raised nominally Catholic, which my family is, but my husband is a Jewish atheist and in adulthood all of my sons are pretty much agnostic, none of them practice any religion. They are all honest to a fault, hardworking, compassionate, extremely decent ethical men.

MY oldest son has become an environmental activst, fighting a terrible gas pipeline that Penn East corporation wants to put through his beautiful rural area and property. Another son is involved in a bicycle group that is getting more bike lanes and bike safety in this area. All of my sons are into fitness and healthy living, and love animals and the outdoors. Oldest son and wife are adopting two siblings from foster care, youngest and wife are expecting my first biological grandchild next year. I would say they turned out great, good people without religion as a major influence in their lives.

Can't you just point to all the believers who are in prison or bankrupt, who are starving or dying or I'll, who are angry, mean, unkind or off track, as proof of your point? And just say the odds are that if we raise them in a religion, they won't turn out perfect. Or even turn out as we expect them to.

Why not raise them our own way and give them our values, instead of giving them someone else's?

Why not teach them to be kind without a mandatory obligation to also believe in a Jesus Christ? Why not teach them to obey the law, because it's easier and saves time and trouble, money and angst, instead of asking them to also believe in a virgin birth?

As far as kids being raised without religion goes, you can make it clear that raising them with religion does not make for a perfect kid. And that being raised without religion doesn't equal being raised without work ethic, manners or morals.

Our kid is now 12; in accelerated math, runs cross country, has a lot of friends, and he's sweet, funny and kind. No gods in our home. No satanic rituals, either. Just normal family stuff.


Trips to Europe. Indian or Lebanese on Fridays, sometimes homemade pizza on Wednesdays. We shop at Target. Husband's an engineer. We like coffee, old movies and chocolate cake. Our kid loves to draw, read and play video games. He volunteers with kids and animals, but doesn't always keep his room clean. He likes puns and wordplay. And really cheesy jokes. Sometimes, his socks stink pretty badly.

He's well adjusted, popular, loving and loved. I wouldn't give him up or the life we lead, for the entire world.

We're good without God. Millions of people are. And the fact that many more millions can't be good even with a God of their own, is proof enough that being religious isn't the only way, to raise a kid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2015 03:06PM by bookratt.

My two boys are overachievers, because I was an overachiever single mother, intent on raising " emotionally and financially independent adults".

I did and they are.

Had nothing to do with or without religion.

TBMs sometimes say "I'm so glad my kid went on a mission and grew up before college." Guess what. They grow up and mature at college anyway and you get to see if first hand. Its parents, mother nature and the kid himself NOT THE LDS CHURCH that can claim the credit for kids growing up and becoming mature. LDS Inc loves to leverage anything they can - including taking credit for your kids growth between the ages of 18-20.

Other benefits of exmo kids and no mission: 10% pay raise for parents to pay for college and no monthly bill for a mission. Missions probably cost $10K now.