I converted to the church when I was 20 years old. I got married and had a child right away. I had a hard time fitting in to the church, I thought that you could freely discuss gospel topics like I had in my old church... not so. You are to ingest the lessons and regurgitate. If you are in complete agreement with everything, then perhaps you can expand on the topic a bit, but nothing more than that.

I never understood why I couldn't wear my pantsuits to church anymore, or why women would show up at my house and act like my friends, but as soon as I'd want to expand on that at all by inviting them somewhere, etc. I'd get a cold reception.

I called up what I thought was an old friend. She had been my visiting teacher for years and years, but I thought we had a deeper connection. I called to see if I could come over... turns out it was a bad time. She then sets up an appointment with me near the end of the month. Turns out she was sick come appointment day.

I remember helping my neighbor's shovel their driveways after snow storms, but when I became pregnant the following year and had to shovel my own drive, I always was on my own. My next door neighbor even got a snow blower and cleared the sidewalks of four houses on our little street, but skipped my house and the non-member's house.

I've sat in relief Society meetings and enrichment night's by myself without a single person saying a word.

Its almost as if someone somewhere had spread a vicious rumor about me. Or maybe I smell of rotting tuna. I don't know. I can relate to the non-mos on this board that talk about being shunned, it hurts even more when you have no explaination for it. If I was a non-member I could say they are just being excluding, but why me? No, idea.

Now I don't care to be friends with them. I don't care about their community. I see through their fake smiles and indifference. I only put up with the nonsense belief system because of the promise of community. Even that is fake.

I can smell the tuna from here. ;)

Clearly you didn't buy into the "truth" hook. line and sinker. You probably subtly made that known, and that was enough for them to keep you at a distance. They only like people that think and act exactly like them. Everything else is a threat to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 04:27AM by scotslander.

The Mormon church isn't a good fit for most normal people.

The Mormon church culture is about climbing the ranks of ward standing. Anyone who is "nice" is usually just showing their best face in order to impress other Mormons. They can turn on anyone at a moment's notice as soon as they see that person is not a stepping stone to a higher status level within the ward.

Read the thread about shunning. As punishment for being less active or questioning the faith, parents and siblings often withhold affection and social support from their own close family members. If they'll do that to their own children and siblings, they have no hesitation about doing it to someone they see as a casual "church friend."

Mormon congeniality is skin deep. They give it or toss it away like a disposable tissue.

I'm sorry they treated you so badly, but this is a story we read here regularly. You're not alone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 03:48PM by Cheryl.

confused1 Wrote:
-----------------------------
I thought that
> you could freely discuss gospel topics like I had
> in my old church... not so. You are to ingest the
> lessons and regurgitate. If you are in complete
> agreement with everything, then perhaps you can
> expand on the topic a bit, but nothing more than
> that.
>
-----------------------------
So true! That's why I always found church so absolutely boring! I specfically remember when I was growing up how much flack a teacher or someone would get if they went off on even a minor non-standard doctrinal point. There always seemed to be someone in the room who would have to loudly proclaim that the answer was "too have more faith" or "be more obiedient," etc, etc. And I'm talking minor points here! Someone who brought up any major issue would be totally considered an apostate/outcast!

If anyone wants to test my hypothesis try asking this question in a church class: "I'm a little concerned about all the "wives" that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had and I sometimes wonder if they instituted polygamy just for carnal reasons"?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 02:35PM by zero.

Picture the Stepford Wives.

Picture yourself not a Stepford Wife.

You aren't an over conformist like they are, and have an identity separate from the church that wants its members to be exactly alike in thought and deed.

Congratulate yourself for stepping outside the box.

Now stay right where you are. Better to be an independent observer than swallowed up whole in the belly of a whale. Be glad you made it this far without their stamp of approval.

The only approval you need is your own for living a life of integrity, meaning and purpose.

I have been going thru this EXACT situation now. I don't know which is worse.....the hurt, the 'I am at the point where I don't give two f*cks , the 'Wait, I thought we were friends & now you are SHUNNING (sp?) me' , or ALL of the above !

It's nice to know that I'm not alone ~~~~ that there are others who totally understand.

I vacillate between not giving a crap about it all to wondering what it is that I did wrong. Its mysterious to me.

I'm sorry you experienced that. The pain that comes with shunning from TBMs cuts deep.

Cheryl is right. Unless you're a project or assignment for members, you're as disposable as Kleenex. I had some real stinging moments, too. But your worth is not dependent on them. Your value is infinite and cannot be influenced by their judgment, actions, etc.

My neighbors do the same shit to me. I go out and mow my lawn and snowblow my own damn driveway for the strong, kickass woman I am and that the other TBM women and pantywaste men are not.

I have my own fun activities with my family and kids that dont fall under the purview of that controlling organization.

Live well,live strong, laugh, love and be happy. You're better off without those kinds of people and stress in your life.

Mormon rejection - just a few of the many, many reasons:

1. You don't dress correctly.

2. You don't have the right last name.

3. You or you and your husband do not make enough money.

4. Your attitude is wrong - not humble enough, too humble, too many questions, not enough questions, and on and on.

5. You are friends with so-and-so which is not okay.

etc. etc. etc.

Add living on the wrong side of town to your list ! We live in
an extremely wealthy ward. Our home is in a lower class side of town where most of our homes are paid for. Most of the people won't be caught dead in our neighborhood & have told us to our faces.

momto15kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Add living on the wrong side of town to your
> list ! We live in
> an extremely wealthy ward. Our home is in a lower
> class side of town where most of our homes are
> paid for. Most of the people won't be caught dead
> in our neighborhood & have told us to our faces.


I hope you've responded: "Well, you don't need to worry about our neighborhood, since we aren't planning to invite you over."

You know, anyone with a pea brain would trundle over with their snowblower and clean the nonmember's drive and say "Happy to do it!" and do the same for you, the pregnant lady. It is what neighbors do.

But what Mr. PeaBrain did and did not do, shines a bright light onto the lack of loving concern for others. He was saying, "I'm lds and worthy and you're not, so screw you!"

Nice!

There can't be the Ward Winners without the Ward Losers.






That's why it's called a cult!

There was a time I use to bend over backwards to help people in the church and church itself. I did this for years. Then one day I desperately needed the church and not even a cricket chirped. Days and weeks after I became invisible to everyone who passed me in the hall. Some how I always knew I was invisible, it just took a wake up call to show me the truth.

yeah. I think this sums it up pretty well.

When my elderly parents moved from California to Utah they had just two elderly gentlemen from their ward who came by to help during the process.

They had been members of the Laguna Beach Ward for almost 30 years.

They raised their family in this ward.

They sent 4 sons on missions from this ward.

They had been fully active, tithe paying, temple recommend holding members.

The were moving themselves (with help through it all from their children of course).

They had invested their lives in that ward.

And two people offered to help.




Fucking Cult

I started college when I was 42. That was enough to get me on the shit list. Surprised me a bit since the RSP was a single, non practicing gay, and a college professor.

The good news is,I think she may have left the church by now.

This response is to two threads:

As a Lamanite (Mexican) I was uniformly rejected by the parents of the young ladies I dated, but I never found mormon women difficult to fit in.

about mormon royalty. It gives you some clues as to why some of us never fit in.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 02:24AM by cl2.

Whatever the "reason", you were rejected because you are NORMAL, just like Lurking said.

It's about them, and not you, at all. You have one big thing going against you, and that is you are a convert, and not a BIC Mormon. Mormons don't think converts will stay as faithful, since they don't have that tremendous family pressure crushing them into the mold. They don't fear family ostracism, dis-inheriting, abandonment, the way Mormons fear those behaviors from their families.

Once in a while, we get explanations, from the Mormons, themselves. Here are a few interesting ones:

"She isn't enough of a Mormon" said a young man, when he broke off his engagement to my friend. "She swears, sometimes, and her father smokes."

"You smile too much. You seem too happy all the time. I can't take you seriously." Said about me. Mormons never appreciated my sense of humor.

"She dresses like a long-haired hippie."

"They are democrats." A whole family was rejected because of this.

"He didn't go on a mission." BYU girls in my dorm used this reason to reject dates.

"He's a geek." I laughed at that one, because I thought science nerds were interesting! I fell in love with a scientist on a teaching fellowship, and learned a lot from him. He, and other Stanford PhD's ended up ruling the world. Their Mormon critics moved on to give boring talks in sacrament meeting, and to continue snark other "intellectual types." They added gays to their list, and quite a few of my (former) Mormon friends contributed money to Prop 8.

I'm glad I don't belong to that group! You should be, too.

The bottom line is, that you don't want to be like them.

I was a convert and remember feeling a little envious of some of the young women at BYU that were from old Mormon families, well, particularly wealthy old Mormon families. They were clearly more popular at church, well dressed, and very confident. They didn't seem to be like individuals but more like part of a dynasty.

I was invisible.
And in retrospect, THANK GOODNESS!

It would mean you're able to fit in with bleached out slim in Mormon wards squirming in and out of dark tunnels under rocks.

Be glad if Mormons shun or reject you. It means you're alive and breathing fresh air in the sunshine.

That's some extreme imagery there.

But it works. Reminds me of NLP.

One thing I've discovered after leaving Mormonism for the great unknown of the pagan world, is that God used that as a doorway to the windows of the world. He had to break, no crush my faith in Mormonism (aka Joey Smith idol worship,) to dust. Then used my newfound freedom from that insanity to re-instill in me a newfound devotion to God and God alone.

There is no religion that can save us from ourselves or instill in us a respect for what's divine in our nature, including our Creator - other than a personal relationship with him. That isn't found in a house of worship, it's found when everything else around me failed me, including institutionalized religion aka Mormonism - faith of my childhood. It rejected me, before I rejected it. But it was from necessity, because I couldn't have grown had I stayed stuck inside that rut.

So consider it a blessing and a relief that for whatever reason you didn't fit inside the cookie mold. You had to grow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 07:19AM by amyjo.

I'm sorry, Confused. I went through the same thing with my churches. Time has helped me realize it wasn't me. I had my failings, but they weren't anything to be rejected over, at least not by people who preached what they did. Hypocritical. Demanding. Unhealthy people to be around. Brings nothing but sorrow. In time, you will be glad you aren't still bound and stuck in that. Best wishes.

I was BIC, TBM all my life but fell in love with a non-mormon who converted, waited a year and got married in the temple. We move around a lot and every ward we were in treated us like second-class citizens. People knew that my husband wasn't BIC and wasn't as devoutly brainwashed. He wasn't an RM, sometimes he turned down callings or skipped part of church talking in the hall way. When I was fully in TSCC this really upset me for the wrong reasons. I wanted my husband to be the type of guy that was the EQP, not for appearances, but because I was SO devout and wanted him to be. Anyway, once we left I realized how messed up all of that is.

I was confused too. Like you I converted at 20 and one thing I didn't understand this behaviour until I came to this board was the way friendships work in Mormonism. Like you I was confused when I tried to expand the friendships of those "assigned" one way or another to friendship me. I relate so much to your post, I could have written it myself.

There are so many stories to tell, her is one: there was this one "friend" who was my very first visiting teacher and reached out to me as a new member. Through the years I kept in contact and was surprised when she brushed me off, but even more surprised when out of the blue she wanted to do lunch or something. I think she probably did it out of guilt. I was always confused. Sadly I've come to see that the poor woman didn't want to be my friend in the first place she just had an assignment to fill and when the wards split she just moved one.

So many stories <sigh>. So much behavior I didn't understand. Now I look at members through a different lens and can see very clearly how it is all a duty to friendship.

At least we now know why.

I read an interesting commentary/opinion piece on HuffPost about the sharp decrease in lifespan for white males (not in the upper income group), some of it due to suicide and drug related reasons. It coincides with increased racism expressed.

The point is that even poor white males were always, in the past, able to consider themselves superior to SOME racial (and sexual) groups.

With increased egalitarian views of racial and sexual minorities by society as a whole, they can't feel themselves automatically superior. The economy has changed, and these guys are left behind. They are bitter and resentful.

I see some of the same process going on. These bic mormons, who aren't mormon royalty and are hurting economically (at least 10% worth), need to be able to feel superior to someone--anyone!

So they make sure you know they feel superior to nomos, exmos, gays, and converts. They have to be above you on the pecking order, and they want to make sure you don't forget because it may be all they've got going for them!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 02:17PM by bordergirl.

I lived in a ward for 10 years. Husband and I had may callings and were very involved.

Hubby got a job transfer. At the same time another family that was mormon royalty also got a job transfer.

The ward had a big good-bye party for the other family. We weren't invited. I guess they thought we wouldn't notice. The other family was asked to speak on their last Sunday there. Hubby and I were asked to give the opening and closing prayers. We declined, and didn't go to church the last Sunday we were there. We were too busy packing and getting ready to move. We've never missed anyone from that ward.

Wow! How incredibly rude!
Unbelieveable.

I'm a nevermo, and I have heard this story many times on the board. A lot of times, they are wonderful and friendly up until the very day you get baptized. Their job is done. They fellowshipped you into the tub, and now they can go back to their regularly scheduled lives. What also amazes me is the animosity towards converts. Converts are inherently flawed and evil from the pre-existence, which is why they were "punished" by being born into a nonMormon home, and worse, born into a poor home, and worse than that, with dark skin. For a church that has such a high focus on converting people, you'd think converts would be treated better. In my opinion, you'd think converts would be better and "golden" because they had to *work harder* to get to the "one true church." It wasn't just plopped in their lap by being born into it. Being BIC is easier.

You are definately not alone. As a nevermo, it's clear that they don't want to be friends once they realize there's no way I will ever convert. I am considered evil and "stinky tuna" at this point. At least I have a *reason,* no matter what a stupid and hurtful reason it is. It has to be incredibly difficult to be so devoted to the faith, probably *more so* than the average BIC Mormon, and fully rejected in such a way.

Mormons exist as 12 and 13 year olds back in junior high, with the cliques and the "mean girl clubs." It's hard to wrap your brain around these grownups, who somehow manage to exist in the "real world," are so childish and immature at the same time.

I dated a TBM years ago, who had a bachelor's and was working on a master's degree, served in the Army National Gaurd, and was a high school teacher, and was so incredibly naive it left my head spinning.

There are plenty of people who joined, and the huge draw was the social aspect, the social support, and the friends who all seemed to think the potential convert was the next best thing to sliced bread. You were quite popular and these people are nice, wholesome, friendly, and then you get baptized, and it all fizzles away. Gone. Except for the obligatory home visits.

I'm sorry you had to deal with this.

It can be such a closed culture. Some people have lived in very welcoming and tolerant wards.

But many wards seem to encourage cookie cutter conformity. If you don't fit, you get left out.


I feel bad that you are trying to figure out what YOU did that made you not fit in. It probably wasn't you. The fact that you didn't fit in might be a GOOD thing, especially if you get along in other social groups. There can be a lot of unwritten 'rules' about LDS culture. I don't even know how to explain it. But if you didn't grow up in it, it can be hard to pick up on them. I think it has to do with pecking order and submissiveness, and not saying what you really think (at least not to someone's face). They are messed up, unhealthy ways of interacting. I was really good at it, and I'm still trying to overcome it. Among the women, there is a lot of passive aggressiveness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 05:19PM by imaworkinonit.

It's the tuna smell. But on the bright side, you will have lots of cat friends and they will love you unconditionally and won't judge you.