Context: My wife is extremely TBM. I told her about a year ago that I didn't believe and generally would not attend church. It has caused a fair amount of stress. We are trying to make the relationship work but only time will tell.

Anyway,church starts at 9am. We have 2 girls under 10 years old. Well, DW didn't get out of bed until 8:30 and was then in a mad rush to get ready for church. She threw dresses on them did hair, etc. Then the girls said they were hungry. She barked at them and said they could eat when the got home. In my mind I was thinking, "that's 3 hours!! An eternity for little kids!" I wasn't going to go but once I heard the insanity, I decided to go to SM so that I could "save" them. I showed up 5 minutes after the family and the girls were literally shoving oreos in their mouths as fast as they could. DW brought oreos for breakfast.

I scolded DW and told her that her irresponsibility passed the limit and I would be taking the girls home after SM. Of course I am now the bad guy but this was just too much. The sad part is this behavior from DW is par for the course. TSCC trumps all in her mind.

I had to vent.

I think what I would do in a similar circumstance is either feed the kids a decent breakfast at home and then drive them there (while your wife saves seats,) or insist that they stay home. The kids shouldn't have to suffer because their mom slept late.

You're right, a little kid can't go three hours or more without eating. As a teacher, I've watched kids sob who didn't get any breakfast that morning (keep in mind that my school serves a free universal breakfast to all kids who show up on time. Free universal lunch as well!) I can't begin to tell you what a low opinion teachers have of parents who don't feed their kids, especially when free food is readily available.

I would make this a non-negotiable with your wife. The kids get a decent breakfast no matter what.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You're right, a little kid can't go three hours or
> more without eating.

WHAT (the Hell) are you talking about?

In MORmONISM, Fast Sunday observance is supposed to include an at least 24 hour NON eating binge, a day of personal deprivation that good members of the church are enthusiastic about and rejoice in. When a person reaches 8 years old they get baptized and they are officially IN the membership routine. After all, if a person is old enough to barter and contract with God for their eternal salvation then they are old enough to adhere to the rules related to gaining that salvation and the rules that they are subject to by being baptized. My MORmON male parent said so, and he was probably repeating some MORmON PriestDUD Leader, he was certainly recycling True MORmON sentiment, so he has to be right.

Three hours of not eating is a LARK for faithFool Latterday Saints!!!!!!!! And properly regimented LDS children do not just magically reach the point of being able to pull off a properly executed MORmON Jesus pleasing 24 hour fast with out some preparatory training and ramp up on the matter. That means that adults who are fasting are certainly not going to be bothered with preparing food for whiny hungry little kids on Sunday morning. As well, there is not going to be any little kids making any food for themselves on Sunday morning because it puts the kitchen in a state of deity displeasing disarray that is entirely incompatible with the spirit of the holy sabbath day. What do you want to do? -tick off god? You obviously can not see that its far better to have irritable children that can be told to shut the Hell up to solve the problem, than an irritated MORmON Jesus that you are not entitled to issue any dictates to. That is THE way that THE MORmON priestDUD works. Besides, its just plain rude for little kids to be eating in front of/ around adults of who are conducting/ observing a proper MORmON fast, even if the little kids did manage to fix the food themselves.

How is a young pre baptism latter day saint going to have any comprehension or appreciation for a full on 24 hour fast unless they are doing with out themselves to some substantive extent, like experiencing grinding hunger during church meetings ? After all, if a young latter day can not work themselves up to fasting with resplendent ease then they are not going to be able to abide by the far more stringent and important unmentionable secret handshaking and mock throat temple covenants of MORmON exaltation, which is what this crucial MORmON training is a warm up for and really all about -making it back to our super anal retentive heavenly father so we can live with him as MORmON gods forever. Its all part of MORmON heavenly father's grand MORmON plan to make us happy just like him. After all, MORmON HF had His own son nailed to a cross, and brutally tortured and killed as the ultimate pivotal functional point of His grand plan of salvation, and now we are supposed to worry because some little kid's stomach might be growling ? That puts an end to the debate right there. There will be no food eating on fast Sunday morning for anybody in any truly MORmON household, including whiny ass little new born babies.

.............. Oh, and just because you have an empty belly does NOT mean that you do not have to do your rather strenuous farm chores, which includes feeding the livestock who are not required to fast, just in case you could not figure that out. ....There is a lot about children and raising children that my MORmON parents could teach you! A lot of good MORmON member stuff that you missed out on because you were not raised by them!

"Children can not go more than three hours with out eating" ?
ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!! What a joke!!!!!!!!!! Three hours without food does not even constitute a start on a proper fast.

Given the chance, next you will probably start up with stupid comments about how children should use a safety belt when riding in a car. LMAO !!!! ........ or that children should NOT be left in the car for hours on end when temperatures are above 90 degrees .......or below freezing, LMAOA !!!!! Or that a three (to 8) hour lapse of not knowing where your children are or what they are doing is unacceptable, usually on the Saturday before almighty Sunday. .......Or that children should NOT have their rear ends kicked so hard that their feet come clear off of the ground!

My MORmON parents are laughing in your face. Because my MORmON parents violated everyone of these -your typical wimpy whiny NON MORmON good parenting concepts /standards, and many more, on a regular basis, way beyond kids can't make it for three hours with out food, and all of their kids managed to survive anyway.

All of that and more is just part of good old MORmON style parenting and MORmON pioneer style enduring back in the hey day of MORmONISM and the MORmON church, when parents had more kids than they could handle because they were told to by their MORmON leaders, and then MORmON parents managed by using good old MORmON faith. Back then, MORmON parents did not get bogged down worrying about silly stuff like car safety seats, and nutrition, they just stayed focused on really important stuff like making the kids periodically go with out food, routinely beating kids senseless whether the kids deserved it or not as a means of maintaining a strict standard of absolute authority -you know, like THE church's authority, attending church, and paying tithing, and going to the temple. Even if a couple of the kids did not survive then SO WHAT! My parents would have been just fine because they had plenty of children just the way they were told to by MORmON leaders, and later on they will still be able to kick the missing kids ass in heaven because the kid was BIC and my parents had an eternal MORmON family, so going down one or two just would not have mattered very much. Losing three might have started to matter, but Heck, my parents were still alive so they could just have some more kids to replace the ones who did not make it, because just like kids going with out food and what ever else, MORmON women enduring pregnancy and child bearing is an absolute trifle ........and IF my mom would have died, My MORmON male parent told me that he would be perfectly willing and able to marry again. You know, the same way that Gordon Hinckley's father did, more than once, to keep pumping out kids the way that MORmON HF and Jesus want. And even more, because IF people operate the way that you suggest, then they will miss out on those prime opportunities to deliver the grinding shame loaded lectures on how really important that living the MORmON gospel really is, and emphasizing that critical message with hunger pangs, and children will miss out on glorious memories of absolutely miserable agonizing fast Sundays that seemed much more like an eternity than a mere matter of hours when they wondered what the point of being alive really was and then were rewarded with surviving anyway. ..... How would children gain any critical perspective on what eternity is really like without a crucial experiences like that being burned into the neurons of their brain? I know that I would NOT have any perception of what eternity is really like with out foundation experiences like that, based on good old suffering. Its not just a matter of depriving children from food, its a matter of NOT depriving the children of the grand vision of glorious eternal life as a MORmON.

People like you do not understand the MORmON principle that suffering is good, and that MORE suffering is better. What do you think Jesus meant when he said "suffer the little children"? That they should be exempt from suffering ?
People like you obviously do not listen to and abide by the church hymns, where it says stuff like: "and if we die before our journey's through, Happy day, all is well, ....but if our lives are spared again, then that is OK too, because we will be completely justified in mocking the crummy faithless inferior non members".

With the way that you are, you will never make it as a MORmON !!! and I bet Elder Bednar would agree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOJcunaFE38

Remember fast Sunday once a month. I had to fast when I was under 10.

You wife probably thought nothing of it. So what if the kids are hungry. Church is more important.

Now pay your tithing but eat healthy and nutritious food. You know the stuff you can't afford becuase some asshat of a church is taking 15% or more of your discretionary income.

My mother still doesn't understand my negative feelings toward the cult.

Only 15%?

If it's discretionary income we are talking about, I would say the cult takes something closer to 40-50%. For people who are just scraping by (and there's a lot of them), that number approaches 100%.

SitL - not to derail this thread but I would be very interested in further details on these percentages etc...

care to expound? Perhaps in a new thread?

I suck at math and RFM

You are a wise Daddy to insist on breakfast. Maybe keep some more nutritious quick breakfast options around for your frazzled spouse?

Why didn't you feed them breakfast? Why didn't you get them dressed for church, braid their hair, etc. while your wife got herself ready? It's not like it was a surprise that they were going to church. I get the feeling you sat in the recliner watching the chaos.

Some of her frustration may have been due to your obliviousness to what needed to be done to get out the door. We women think men should be able to read our minds. If we would only communicate directly! We see what needs to be done, and expect our men to see it too.

Husband has made it clear he's not going to church on a regular basis.

Wife decides to sleep until a half hour before church starts, knowing full well she has two kids to get ready for church when her husband does not attend, and didn't explain her plans beforehand to him to please get them ready?

No, sorry. This is not the husband's problem. It's the wife's, since she decides church HAS to happen, but then leaves all of the organization to the non-believing husband as a form of sabotage... to give herself something to blame him for.

As a fellow parent - if I have somewhere I need to be with the kids and my husband's not involved, it's my personal responsibility to pre-plan, not my husband's.

I can't tell you how many times by husband could have helped get the girls ready....and not just for church.

Having said that, in Mormonism, if he helped his wife get the children ready for church that is showing he supports them going to church therefore, supports what is taught, therefore really believes Mormon teachings.
Supposedly all of this would be a far stretch, but not within the Mormon mindset.

By taking them home he showed his girls, and his wife that basic needs come first....before the church.

All very interesting replies. I have made it clear that if church is her priority, she must take the lead. I get up and make these girls breakfast almost every morning and take them to school. I bust my butt for their every need...among with plenty of wants. However, I have drawn the line at church. Many people come on here and complain about how they are not allowed to teach their kids opposing sides to the one and only true church because the significant other won't allow it. I'll be damned before I am told to sit down and shut up. I let the girls know why I am doing what I'm doing and am very transparent.

At some point I've had to say enough and let them see their mother's priorities. And unfortunately they have to suffer a bit. Yes, I can provide healthy snacks and yes I can get up at 7am and have them all ready and dressed so she can roll out of bed and have everyone's pearly whites gleaming at her by 8:50. In general, 5 out of 7 days I'm up getting them ready for school, etc. I know my place in this relationship...#3 (when I'm a good boy) but mostly 4th or 5th.

I refuse to be a half-assed father and also refuse to not have a voice. Don't get me wrong, she's a good mother in many ways, but church is number one no matter what. Even on school days when I'm out of town they go late of they haven't eaten, etc. So it's the inconsistency that drives me nuts.

Anyway, thanks for the replies and advice. And as an update, I took the youngest to Costco and we had a ball...then we spent the whole day together. And DW ate the illegitimate food I bought on the Sabbath and the rest of the day was great. I also told her she crossed the line by doing what she did. She apologized.

Anon-B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even on school days when I'm out of town they go late of they haven't eaten, etc.

I would work on this with your wife. Kids who are late to school really miss out. I was just talking about this with a colleague. It's an unconcious way of sabotaging or undermining a kid's education.

Well, Anon-B, I agree with your actions. Ignore the criticisms. Many Mormons think the cult is more important than school or work. I was treated like dirt at church, if my children were late, or if we stayed home when we were sick. Our jobs were very understanding of situations beyond our control. We weren't late very often, but we were treated kindly. The schools had "snow days" Not so, the Mormon cult. The men were awakened early to go to church and shovel snow. The cult self-importance always did make me angry!

You seem to be a lot like my husband. He was always very open and frank about knowing that Mormonism is a CULT. He didn't pester me about it, but he didn't support our membership in it, in any way. He didn't go to hear me or the children give talks or perform. He didn't join in the activities, such as Scouts, pinewood derby, ward parties, etc. He didn't donate one dime. He was careful to not prevent me from attending or from making our children attend, and my end of the bargain was to not try to guilt him into going.

You are doing exactly the right thing, in showing your children that they are more important to you, than what strangers think of you.

Maybe one thing you can do is set the alarm for your wife every Saturday night.

You were smart to have them eat at home. Don't feed them picnics or snacks at church. This is brutal, but if your children suffer hunger and unpleasantness at church, they will soon associate church and suffering--and I guarantee that they will not be members when they are 18!

I'm glad you talked to your wife. Make her feed the children, even if it means less time for her to primp. Evidently her hair and makeup are also more important than the kids.

This is not about God or family--it's all about the approval of fellow cult-members.

Let your girls know family comes before the church. Mormons often put the church before family, but when they need help, they find out the church is the last place to ask.

"And unfortunately they have to suffer a bit."

Yeah, it's always a good thing to put the kids in the middle of a disagreement between mom and dad. Well done parents of the year. She puts the church first and you put yourself first. Damn those pesky little creatures that get caught up in the middle.

Oh, stuff it you sanctimonious asshat.

I don't think he meant it that way at all. Disagreements arise in every marriage. Often it involves kids and parenting. Yes, it's unfortunate that kids sometimes get dragged into it, but such is life. Hopefully the kids will notice mom and dad work out their differences, compromise, and come to some sort of a resolution. It will be a good lesson for them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2015 08:15AM by Strength in the Loins.

blah blah blah. Yes, I do believe he meant it that way. He didn't say they 'got caught up', he said 'THEY HAVE TO SUFFER'. So yes, I'll take the kid's side every time when a parent uses a kid as a pawn.
Kids see parents have disagreements all the time and yes, it is healthy to see how to work things out. Dad isn't trying to work things out. He's trying to say his way is right and mom's is wrong and i'll let you suffer until you agree with me.

you and i may be in violent agreement in the end. The church causes people to do stupid crap. Mom is just as guilty here in her part in causing all this chaos with the kids.
Someone mentioned above about how the kids will remember the terrible church days. Oh, I think they will and I also think they'll remember that they were drug into the middle of their parents fighting and they were an afterthought.

I am with you on this. The children are going to suffer because MORmON priorities are being interjected into the situation.
(For more on how MORmON priorities tend to play out in these situations see my earlier totally sarcastic post) For those with reading comprehension skills, it was quite clear that the OP was NOT the source of the MORmON priorities being interjected into the situation. .....Why is it that THE MORmON solution ALWAYS means letting the MORmONS have their way, if they can not be assisted to at least go on their MORmON way completely unfettered ?

DW and I left the cult together. So it was nice to not have to be on separate pages about helping to get ready for church.

But good Lord how I hated Sundays! We have 5 girls and a boy. The crunch to find church clothes and shoes (which were never put away), do the requisite primping, then sit through 3 hours of meetings after working (I work 3rd shift) was absolutely the worst. I don't miss that shit at all! Having so many daughters meant that my wife did the lion's share of getting kids ready.

My Sundays now usually involve early morning golf. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2015 08:21AM by Strength in the Loins.

This is not what I consider to be "trying to make the relationship work." I hope you didn't scold her in front of the girls or other people.

At first I was thinking the same thing about you should help dress them for church, but it sounds like you do PLENTY and if church is HER priority, your wife needs to get out of bed EARLY on Sunday.

When my ex was in the bishopric or had meetings, usually always a clerk at least, I got out of bed and the kids were ready for church early. I was always early. I had 2, too. And they got breakfast.

Actually, it sounds to me like your wife doesn't want to go to church. That she slept (or keeps sleeping) in and that Sunday mornings are making her and everyone else miserable, my impression is that her subconscious is acting out her deep dislike of having to go.

Why don't you come up with a few really enjoyable alternatives to church, once or twice a month? Make it really appealing for her to stay home.

Honestly I don't know if this is just Mormonism or the drive to be somewhere on time, without fail.

All I know is Mormonism and the early morning push to be ON TIME so no one else sits in OUR SEATS is insane! Would I have felt this way about attending another church? I don't know.

What you described goes on in MOST TBM households every Sunday. I'm grateful that for the first 25 years of my marriage I was already at church and didn't have to be the one getting the little tikes dressed and out the door.

When I was home–it wasn't pretty and many a day we rolled up to the building and it was the last place I wanted to be based on my un-Christlike actions in a 10 minute drive.

Now I stay home. As the family is walking out the door I tell them to "have a good time." When they come home I say "how was church?" Then we discuss the stupid things that happened during the last three hours, but I didn't have to act like a nut job and I didn't have to experience the cog dis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2015 07:01PM by Doubting Thomas.

Drive to be on time? Where I am, Mormons are notoriously late for everything. The members even have a name for it 'Mormon standard time' the only occasion I've ever known them to laugh at themselves

Church at 9am on Sundays is bogus

Seriously stupid

If you believe Christ is with us today, there is NO reason to fast. He specifically explained why his disciples did not fast, because he was with them. They also broke the absolute Sabbath rules about picking grain on the seventh day - with Christ's approval. Nor should anyone require OT tithing. Them laws and commandments are gone.

BTW, JS intended to bring back all the OT rules including animal sacrifice. OTOH, we should understand that blood atonement required human sacrifice for even disclosing temple secrets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2015 05:49PM by rhgc.

Did you wake up before her? Next time, turn all the clocks in your house back to prevent a rush.... ;)

If you were active in the church they'd load jobs on you and you would not be there to help your wife either.

You are handling the situation just fine.