I am looking for a bit of advice for those of you who have raised young children outside of Mormonism, or any religion. My oldest child is a 4th grader. He is a good kid. He’s always done fine in school, but this year he seems to have more self-awareness that he is intelligent and doesn't quite fit in.

My son attends a good public school, relative to our southern state. However, he happens to be the only one in his immediate class that is interested in Harry Potter, Sonic the hedgehog games, Pokeman, history, science, etc. This year is the first time he has reported that his classmates tend to fight among themselves throughout the school day (nothing physically endangering, just a bit of tension among a few key classmates from what I understand). He doesn’t get involved and is frustrated that the learning environment is sometimes disrupted by these other kids. My son finds himself alone with no one at school to relate to.

He has always been good-natured and has always been brave enough to walk up to new kids and introduce himself. However, this year he has felt unwanted and disliked. My heart breaks for him. On most days, he comes home upbeat and works hard on his homework. Every now and then, the sadness catches up with him, and he lets me know how invisible he feels at school.

I am looking for advice on how to help him develop/maintain self-esteem in the face of loneliness.

I grew up feeling what he feels during my school years. I had one or two semi-friends that gratefully helped me not feel so utterly outcast until I made it to college. I also had an older brother who made me laugh and made me feel like I was a-okay as a person. My older brother is the only one who ever “got me” until I made my best friend in college, and then later when I met my husband. Once in college, I was able to develop friendships with more people that shared my interests. I was able to enjoy a sense of belonging to a group.

My son is only 9. How do I tell him, just wait until you go to college to have any real friends? I have told him that he just needs one good friend and to be on good terms with everyone else to survive these years. We’re crossing our fingers that a “good friend” will appear/develop soon!

Part of my survival technique was being a faithful TBM. Even though I didn’t have any other friends my age in the church in my town, I grew up knowing that Mormons were “peculiar people.” Since I was Mormon, I expected myself to be a peculiar person. Thanks to training at church, I developed a sense of confidence that although the kids at school didn’t know it, I was a chosen daughter of God. I was someone special to him. Feeling like a victim at school because I was always at the top of my class and held myself to these super self-righteous (and I am sure obnoxious) standards felt like a natural consequence of my “elect status.” (thanks Patriarchal Blessing for making me so proud for no real reason). I am embarrassed to look back at myself during my school years. But that was my past. I no longer lean on feeling like a peculiar Mormon to have confidence. Now I am just a peculiar person because I was raised Mormon and now am exmo!

As my children are growing up outside of any church upbringing, I am trying to figure out how to help my son develop the self-esteem needed to weather the times when he may feel friendless.

He enjoys cub scouts and gets along well with our town’s pack members. Unfortunately, he is the only one attending his school out of his webelos group. He identifies with a couple of family friends’ children. These kids are also in other classes/schools. So while we try to give him exposure to his friends as much as possible, his day-to-day experience at school leaves him feeling “like he’s the worst person on the planet,” as he told me one night.

I hate to see my son feel the way I felt as a kid. I see an opportunity, though, for him to learn self-worth that doesn’t rely on a “Holy Ghost” sending warm fuzzies on conditions of absolute obedience to a fake gospel. I just don’t know how to teach this concept!

Any thoughts or advice?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 02:36PM by crookedletter.

He doesn't need religion to survive school. He sounds like he has a fun childhood and a good school full of friends. Life couldn't be better for a 4th grader (it wouldn't have for me :) ) In fact your son is free from mormonism, which is all the better.

He actually doesn't have a school full of friends. That's the dilemma! Lol. How to survive a friendless life in school?

It is really hard to watch our children suffer through the trials and tribulations of growing up. It sounds like you're doing all you can to help outside of school. Is his teacher aware of what is going on with your son? If not, I'd make an appointment ASAP. In my own experience and through watching my kids grow up, sometimes there are friends to be had and sometimes not. It can be a time to learn self reliance, etc. I'd just try to get him to explain why he thinks he's failing when in fact, he's just in an unlucky situation. It sounds like by most measurements he's succeeding.

Encourage him to join school clubs that he is interested in?

Get him involved in Brazilian jiu jitsu or other martial arts. This will build his self-esteem, help him gain cool new friends, and get respect from the jerks at school.

I think, just as adults with the same feelings, the answer would be to involve excellent stories, learning through involvement, trying a different church, group or community approach, wisdom teaching practices, activities involving others, volunteering, always meeting others, starting a league or partnering with older people for errands and stories and stuff, wardrobe improvements or changes in lifestyle, changes or improvements in manners, speech or approach in winning friends and social acceptance, conversation skills, learning new things such as music or art, more walks or excursions into the wilderness, if you can... No dogma, always encouragement.

Keep being a great (non-lds) parent.

Well, I think this would help in adult life as well. Rather than focus on him having a lot of friends, instead I would try to focus on developing different interests. If he's not into sports (try a couple!), then maybe something involving music, like band or choir. Or maybe that's not his bag, but he'd rather play online multiplayer video games (could develop into a programmer as an adult -- do not discount video games as learning and development tools). Or maybe, as a family, you all decide to go volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or by tutoring reading at the local library. Or feeding homeless people. Or starting a community garden in your neighborhood.

The thing is, as an adult it's hard to make friends too. The only place where it's easy is in college. That doesn't mean no friends until college and then you're screwed after that. I am constantly advising lonely adults to get involved with their community and to explore and develop new interests. Photography! Art! Dance! Sports! The possibilities are endless.

My point is, by getting involved deeply with his interests, and developing interests outside of academia, he will be then in situations where he will be surrounded by like-thinking kids. Maybe he likes chess. So have him join a/the chess club. Take him kayaking or camping or surfing or whatever. I loved the suggestion of martial arts.

Look at in-school opportunities as well as out of school opportunities. What does he do all summer? Is there a class or a club or some sort of organization he can join that will enhance those interests? A nonmormon scouting troop might be another fun way to be around other kids, IF he enjoys that sort of thing.

Some day those jerks at school are going to be those jerks at work. We only spend 1/3 of our lives at school or work. Allowing 1/3 for sleeping, that leaves another 1/3 to fill however we wish. I try to spend my third with people who are interested in the same things I am.

It's interesting that you say that being Mormon gave you self esteem. For me, it was the opposite. I was probably one of the most Peter Priedthood kids in my ward growing up, but I never felt like I was good enough. I didn't just have to be good, I had to be perfect.

I think few elementary school kids have many close friends. I got along with kids at school, but I wasn't close with any of my classmates. My closest friends were neighborhood friends, kids from my sports teams, etc... Are there many kids in your neighborhood? I would focus on helping him make friends outside of school.

I agree with what you said. I think relying on the church for my esteem actually delayed my ability to look at myself as good enough as I was. But at the time, I just remember repeatedly reading my Patriarchal blessing, looking for clues about my potential. The church promised a lot of potential to me as a youth.

Once I was married with kids, I realized I was completely stumped in my perceived growth. Walking toddlers through the hallways and serving 2 rounds in nursery ensured that I left each Sunday feeling tired, with no spiritual encouragement. The rare times I attended R.S. showed me that those ladies weren't learning anything new or useful anyway.

But as a young kid, I was constantly being told how special I was. That is what I used to push through my school years. If I could do it over again without mormonism, I would have learned other coping mechanisms. I also wouldn't have corrected other kids around me for cussing, wouldn't have turned down that boy asking me on a date because he wasn't lds, would have gone to sex education week and learned a thing or two about life, etc! I would be entirely different. :)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 06:54PM by crookedletter.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 06:56PM by crookedletter.

Fourth grade is the first non-primary grade where kids have to begin to sort out at a higher level who they are and how they want to deal with social situations. What you did and how you felt might complicate the issues for him if you let the past get in the middle of the present which isn't the same.

Tell him you on his side and can always talk about what's happening. Let him know most kids have days when they feel left out or when there seems no one around who suits their personal idea of friendship. I'm glad he's enjoying scouting and I hope he can eventually find a special friend at school.

I'd suggest a parent teacher conference to plan how you and the teacher might help.

Do you think he'd have a better experience with a different mix of kids in another class? Is there anyone in his present class he'd like to have as a friend. If so, perhaps you could reach out to that student's mother and find out if an invitation to have lunch or snacks and playtime at your house would be welcome or you might try taking that child on a short outing with your child to have ice cream or visit a place they both like.

Good luck. Parenting can be heart wrenching at times. I'm glad your child has you.

As an elementary teacher, I agree with Cheryl that 4th grade is a transitional year in terms of maturation. It can be a rough year for many kids. They have left young childhood behind and are starting to sort out who they will be moving forward.

I would talk with his teacher. Teachers have a pretty good notion of who might be a good friend for your child, and can foster such relationships. If there are two or more 4th grade classes, the teachers can also place him with a different mix of kids next year.

I also want to mention that even if a school has a good reputation, grade level groups of kids can vary considerably. Certain groups of kids can be toxic together. It is a concern to me that there is a subgroup in his class that apparently argues and fights to the point that it is a distraction to others. If your son doesn't find a friend by the end of the year, and there appears to be no hope of doing so, you might want to look at your alternatives.

crookedletter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .........but this year he seems to have
> more self-awareness that he is intelligent and
> doesn't quite fit in.

"...that he is intelligent and doesn't quite fit in..."

I don't know what this means in quantifiable terms (is he above average, or WAY above average???), but if he is nine, you probably have some idea.

If he is intellectually oriented, but could use some friends who are on his level and are interested in the same things that excite him, there are resources available that he (with your help to begin with) could take advantage of.

If he is fascinated with the STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering, math, and anything to do with computers), Art of Problem Solving is unique and wonderful. It is a mostly-online community of STEM-subject aficionados, with the youngest beginning at pre-school ages, and with most of them in elementary-through-high school ages. Many of the kids on the site are preparing for the various local, and the global, math, chemistry, etc. competitions (which begin at elementary school age), so there is an international group of online, and in-person, friends available to him who are his own age (and who may live in the same general area). www.artofproblemsolving.com (P.S. Kids who have competed in the available math and science competitions are usually in line for easier college acceptances and often for scholarship money...and kids who go through the AoPS courses rapidly become the students who get first preference for the hardest-to-get college, and college major, slots.)

If he is substantially more intelligent than most of his classmates, he may qualify for Mensa (which is open to anyone whose IQ scores in the top 2% of the population). One of the things Mensa is particularly good at is supporting gifted children in every possible way---since all the adult members grew up as gifted children themselves, and they know (and remember!) the challenges. In most areas of the country, there are special events for kids like field trips to different interesting places, etc., which all provide a place for gifted kids to meet, have fun, and gain friends they can actually talk to and have genuine fun with.

Mensa accepts the scores of a variety of proctored or administered IQ tests, and they also offer in-person, qualifying tests several times a year in most areas.

Google: Mensa for general information from a variety of sources. (Also: https://www.us.mensa.org for American Mensa, and https://www.mensa.org for International Mensa)

There are ways for your son to make contact with other kids in your area who are like him, and who are also looking for same-level friends...and there are a wealth of friends waiting for him at places like the online groups in AoPS (and the subsequent in-person groups which get together to prepare for the various competitions).

I wish him all the best!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 04:50PM by Tevai.

Everyone has given good advice but above all, I would let him know it's normal to feel the way he does; it is part of normal development.

Find out about successful people who felt like a misfit growing up. Teach him to watch people to see others in class like him; hanging back and not in the 'in crowd' - they are not all like the kids that annoy him, maybe he can figure out who else gets annoyed too so he knows he is not alone in feeling the way he does - he doesn't have to be friends with them, he just needs to know how he feels is a normal part of growing up.

If he is intelligent, he probably makes the other kids feel stupid so they react badly towards him out of misplaced feelings of inadequacy. He's old enough to understand this concept.

Good luck.

Does your school have any kind of a music program? Can you get him music lessons? As he grows up, he would have a built in group of friends in band. I taught middle and high school for years, and the "band geeks" are always a wonderful group of friends that support each other. Ditto for the "theater geeks."

In sports, the swimmers really support each other a lot. If he is techy, maybe his school will have a robotics club. They do some cool things and often take part in local and national competitions. Maybe you and he can take up jogging and meet some other kids and their parents at fun runs. Maybe do some volunteering. I always found that developing relationships with other parents was helpful for my daughter.

Sometimes it is just the chemistry of the particular classroom he is in. Keep on giving him experiences to balance it out. It is what we did when our daughter was in a similar situation.

Bordergirl's suggestions are worth some serious thought. I was very lonely in school, but band and orchestra classes were the best part of the day, and also where I made some friends.

Many public schools don't offer music classes until 5th grade or so. Find out what the school does offer. If it's only band, no orchestra, that limits things a bit for young children, as most teachers feel that kids are not ready for wind instruments until roughly 5th grade. If there's an orchestra, get him started now with private music lessons. And look for a teacher who does small ensembles --- that is a great way to make friends.

The one string instrument that does get into bands, in some (I'm tempted to say "good") programs is the double bass. A huge instrument, but they make them in small sizes for small children. If you can get your son aiming toward playing bass, he will find himself welcomed in all sorts of music, as it is one instrument that is always in demand, and few people study it. And he can always start on a violin or viola or cello. (By the way, viola is also an instrument that few children learn, which means that if there is an orchestra program around, and you play the viola, you will be in demand.)

As mentioned above, if he is in a musical group of any sort he will have an instant "crowd" to be part of. The same goes for other things like singing, dance, and martial arts. You might ask at the school about what groups exist locally, that other kids are joining. Just be sure to find something that interests him. If he goes in with a positive attitude, he's much more likely find himself fitting in smoothly.

And, if all else fails, tell him to look around for other kids who are lonely. Sometimes the best friendships come from being members of the out crowd, instead of being in with the in crowd.

How is his sense of humor? I was kind of an odd kid but I discovered I was funny. At nine he may have a more sophisticated humor than typical 4th graders, but it can be a life saver as he gets older. Smart, funny people usually have smart, funny friends.

Thanks for all of your comments! Yes, it can be hard watching your kids suffer through personal tough times. We're looking forward to band opening up as an option in the next year or two. He participates in his school's gifted program. That experience has been fun for him. He tends to feel down about the day to day classroom vibe. I can meet with his teacher and see if she's aware of any other issues.

I love that my kids are not mormon at all! I feel lost sometimes trying to figure out what experiences are normal for all kids!

I'm in a college town in south Mississippi. Are you in my neighborhood?

Siobahn...we're probably close to each other! I have a great view of the coast! ;)

Hit me up in the Burg sometime. I'm a violin teacher and like oddball kids. I've heard there are some good string programs on the coast.

based on common interests. Maybe he can have friends there.

you sure he's not an introvert? introverts can respond badly to the pressure to have friends. they feel like something is wrong with them when in fact they are normal. An extrovert defines friendship very differently than an introvert. I had to learn this as a mom:

my younger child is TOTALLY an introvert. he gets along great with kids at school and other places but he has absolutely zero, nada, zilch desire to have friends over to play or spend the night. Our older child is the social butterfly and I used to worry about our other one but after spending years chatting with his teachers and other introverts I've learned that he's normal. He gets his people time in at school and then he needs his alone time. I used to make him have friends over when he was younger, I thought he would have fun but it seemed to stress him out more than anything. He told me, "Mom, I need some time to be me."

For me growing up as Mormon, school was always easier than church because the kids at church were much more judgmental than the kids at school. Not having to go to the Mormon church would have made life a lot easier for me.

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Captain Nemo and Cyrus Harding / Smith will always be my #1 guys...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2016 10:08AM by anybody.

Thanks for posting this link, anybody...Very muchly appreciated!!!

:)

I actually served my worst 2 years in MS. Beautiful state, but for someone who isn't quite like the rest of the folks like your son seems to be (myself included) you just don't feel like you fit in.

I would say your son is lucky to be honest. He may have a rough time in school, but that's pretty normal for intelligent people who are going to be successful in the real world beyond our school years.

happydecemberween Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually served my worst 2 years in MS.
> Beautiful state, but for someone who isn't quite
> like the rest of the folks...

Hey happydecemberween, I'm wondering where, and about when, and about some of your experiences there and there are any funny or interesting stories we could share. Anyway...

Of course, no matter where you were, remember, it would be you worst two years. There are interesting and amazing people places and things everywhere, if you're not on a mission, and can have a good tour.

Feel free to get my email if you want. I'd like to hear some of your stories.

Crookedletter, I wish you both and all the best. I suppose you're coastal. Center of the regional hub here; friends and formon fun spoke'n here. Just a thought - what about a pen pal? I still think that's one of the greatest things in the world, for kids- and grown ups. Exchanges, things to look forward to, learning, etc. aside from local friends he sees every day. I'd send him some pretty, funny, vintage or western US cards-postcards he can mail to pals (or a book or puzzle his new friends can look or be puzzled over) for the asking. HMU anytime here or get my email. One thought on learning in general, do you/ he watch any TED talks? There are some good ones.

P.S.>>>
> "Today the teacher had the class draw names and write kind things about each other. My son's description was quiet, calm, smart, respectful, and honest. I told him he should be happy about that review."
>

That's great! Those are some of the best qualities ever, at any age in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2016 02:33AM by moremany.

crookedletter,

The fact that you are aware and concerned and seeking guidance probably give you and your son half the success you're seeking. Good on you.

Sounds like you're in a tough position though having been raised Mormon and therefore with little sense of normality. Even without that impediment, raising kids in general is tough. Or as I like to say, if parenting were easy, anybody could do it. But then add to all that an (overly?) intelligent boy and you've got enough variables to drive you insane. You don't need a standardized solution, you need a customized plan.

As others have asked, just how smart is this kid? And is he an introvert who maybe hasn't figured out the unique dynamics of that trait?

At his age I was 'that kid' at school: isolated, friendless, badly misunderstood, and super smart. My parents put me into a private school for gifted children in fourth grade. I was a year younger than all the other students in my class. As a deep introvert, the concept of friendship as most others experience it was lost on me. As a 'brain' I was studying (on my own, after school) college-level algebra at age nine, as well as poetry and painting. At ten my vocabulary test indicated 'beyond 12th grade'. At eleven, I was devouring college-level music theory (composition) and deconstructing the orchestral scores of Beethoven symphonies.

It was somewhere around this time frame (age 9, 10, 11) that I began to realize that the other kids my age couldn't do what I was doing. Beyond that, they couldn't even imagine anyone doing what I was doing. They were shocked. I was shocked that they were shocked. Forming friendships in that context was next to impossible.

Fortunately, in junior high school (no longer in private school) we students were segregated by aptitude, so I was among the intellectuals where I found a small circle to belong to. I don't even remember how we came together, but there was Manfred (a german), Alfred (a brit) and Lance. We mostly played board games together, and sometimes a little sports.

While I've had a few friendships over the years, mostly I have treated relationships as functional in nature. I soon learned that becoming conversant on many topics and deeply proficient in a few was the winning combination. Twenty years later I was travelling the globe charging outrageous sums of money to corporate execs for technology consulting services. And could go out with them after work and not be a total klutz.

Twenty more years after that and I'm now way past done with being a big-shot. (If I ever was one, beyond in my own mind!) Now I volunteer my time working with young people, middle-schoolers mostly, and seem to have radar for the ones who are having a hard time connecting with other kids, or have ugly stuff going on in their lives.

- - - - -

Kids usually gravitate toward the people and activities and opportunities that interest them and fulfill them the most. When they aren't finding those, they create them. When they can't create them, help them. The parent-child relationship is a carefully crafted and constantly shifting balance of both leading and following at the same time.

And each child is unique, requiring a custom solution. Our four are a study in contrast, none of them even remotely like any of the others. Except for this: three of the four have learned to highly value family relationships, something DW and I started deliberately cultivating fifteen years ago, and now some of their very best friendships as young adults are coming from there.

Best of success to you,

JAR

Thank you all again for the thoughtful responses. I have several avenues to explore to help my son develop his interests. I say intelligent, relative to his schoolmates. He has lazy tendencies to overcome. :)

He seems to be learning that his hard work this year has helped him achieve higher grades and an improved understanding of class material. He thoroughly enjoys history and literature, but despises writing thoughts down for assignments.

Today the teacher had the class draw names and write kind things about each other. My son's description was quiet, calm, smart, respectful, and honest. I told him he should be happy about that review.

Like crookedletter, Mormonism was such a part of my childhood and formative years, I raised my own children LDS until we left for the first time when they were 5 and 7. We dodged em for a while. And then returned after my parents died for a trip down memory lane a few years later. Though that didn't last all that long, thankfully, before I was able to quit for good.

I never stopped attending church however. I just went from one church to another until I found one that fit my beliefs and we could adapt to as a family. So if you don't believe in any one thing now, my advice probably wouldn't work for you. Since I continued to believe in Jesus, the bible, and the Holy Spirit, I continued to attend several different denominations but all Christian.

Until we started going to a Messianic synagogue where we stayed for several years. Once the awareness sunk in it was being run like a cult not dissimilar in some ways to Mormonism, I was outta there in a heartbeat, and haven't gone back. Now I attend a Jewish synagogue - but still retain some of my former beliefs. They accept me, I don't proselytize (it's forbidden to in Judaism,) and all is cool. It has a warm, loving and accepting spirit there, and all are welcome. I've found it nurturing and edifying, so that's why I've stayed (my children are now grown and have beliefs somewhat separate from mine.)

Each church or synagogue I've been to has a different feel to it, or spirit as I describe it best. If it has a spirit that speaks to my heart in that I mean there is genuine warmth there and good teachings on moral values, I stayed longer.

If I'd been an agnostic during the same time my children were growing, I honestly don't know how that might have affected them, because we attended somewhere while they were growing.

As for your son's self-esteem, I'd try to get him into a charter school if there are any in your area, or a magnet school depending on what they may call it where you are. He may be gifted and advanced for his years, compared to the peers you're describing.

He needs nurturing and a stimulating environment if he is to grow and maximize his potential. Perhaps there's a gifted aptitude or honors program right where he's at now, he could be channeled into.

And for your role as mom, just keep nurturing him and support him and mostly love him. When my own were teenagers and we were going through a rough patch, I prayed for guidance how to reach one of mine when there was distance between us a mile wide. It's like I was going through all the motions of being a good mom, but we didn't seem to be connecting on any real wavelength.

Then the answer to my prayer was very simple but eloquent. It was for me to simply *cherish* and focus on that as an active verb. So I did. I started actively practicing cherishing my children, not just in deeds and actions, but in how I felt about them continuously and it ran deep into my veins and flowed outward to where I was able to connect to my distant child at the time and the warmth was returned. It's not that I didn't love or cherish them before that. It was actively practicing the cherish part keeping that the focus, that made a difference in how we related to each other, and turned our relationship around.

It was like someone had removed a wall between us and we were relating again.

So... these are some of my thoughts and ideas. Maybe you can find something in there that may help with your child.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2016 05:44AM by Amyjo.