So I saw this over on John Dehlin's FB page. It is a letter that was sent to parents of BYU-I students in a student ward over there. Anyone else know anything about this?

_________________________________________________________

We are writing to you concerning our church attendance policy for the YSA XXrd ward. In order to attend BYU-Idaho, each student signed an agreement to regularly attend church in the ward in which his or her records reside. We have been asked by our Stake Presidency to form a policy that will hold our students and us as a bishopric accountable for attending church throughout the semester. The policy we created is designed to promote spiritual strength and living in accordance with the Church Education System honor code.

We have informed each student in the ward of our policy in order to avoid misunderstanding and miscommunication. This policy is included below.
• Students may miss a maximum of 3 Sundays aside from major holiday weekends.
• Upon missing a second Sunday, the stake presidency has asked that we send a letter informing the student’s home bishop and parents, of the student’s absences, and ask for help in encouraging the student to faithfully attend their church meetings.
• Upon a third absence, the student will be asked to meet with the bishop, and will be informed that if another absence is reached, his or her endorsement to attend BYU-Idaho will be revoked, and he or she will be sent home and unable to finish out the end of the semester.

As always, we understand that some students may be under very difficult circumstances, and may need certain exceptions. We have encouraged students to come and meet with us, and work such situations out with us ahead of time. The last thing we want is to be unfair to any circumstances that merit such attention.
We as a bishopric do not like sending students home, and would much rather enjoy their company in the XXrd ward. However, both we, and your student, have a commitment and obligation to the Lord, this university, and those who fund it, to encourage Sunday attendance and commitment to the Church Education System Honor Code. We hope you understand and are willing to support your son or daughter in their commitment to the university.

Finally, we would like to end with a thought shared by Elder L. Tom Perry in his last conference address.

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”

We appreciate your support.

Sincerely,
The XXrd ward bishopric"

_______________________________________________________________


I love seeing things like this. It just confirms to me that the powers that be are paranoid and tightening the grip on the brainwashed. But the tighter they squeeze, the more they will lose.

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”

Reading this just made my blood curdle.

Strength in the Loins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Finally, we would like to end with a thought
> shared by Elder L. Tom Perry in his last
> conference address.
>
> “People are not better off when they are given
> maximum personal freedom to do what they want.
> They’re better off when they are enshrouded in
> commitments that transcend personal
> choice—commitments to family, God, craft and
> country.”
>
> We appreciate your support.
>
> Sincerely,
> The XXrd ward bishopric"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*** Oh my stars & garters !!!! THIS part , that they said Elder L. Tom Perry said , confirms EXACTLY what Neal A. Maxwell said to me & my neighbor on her porch back in the early 1980's. He said that in the last days that we could/would be deceived by people in the church....even to the apostles & above. Quote, unquote. I still remember that gorgeous, sunny day. He was there, seeing my neighbor & dear friends , Margie & Harry Gibbons.
Wow. Just. Wow.
Well, Elder L. Tom Perry : So much for free agency & letting people learn & decide for themselves !

I agree with what Pista wrote above. This makes my blood curdle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 04:55AM by nitrameequc.

Actually, that quote at the end is attributed incorrectly.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/why-marriage-and-family-matter-everywhere-in-the-world?lang=eng

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/opinion/brooks-the-age-of-possibility.html?_r=0

L. Tom Perry did indeed make this statement this in last April's conference, but he was quoting David Brooks - a NY Times opinion writer.

Of course whether Perry came up with the phrase himself or was quoting someone else is mostly irrelevant. It's pretty clear what he meant. Furthermore, when the Brooks quote is read in context, we see that he actually throws in a few caveats into his argument. Brooks' point was that a society where every individual is looking out only for their own narrow self-interest and eschewing commitment in order to keep all options open makes for an unstable society. I don't think Brooks ever had intended for his quote to be used to justify some draconian attendance policy at a cult school.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 05:35AM by Strength in the Loins.

forgive me but wouldn't Notre Dame have the same policy? How about Moody institute? If they go to a christian school expect to be indoctrinated. silly, silly, people.

poopstone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> forgive me but wouldn't Notre Dame have the same
> policy? How about Moody institute? If they go to a
> christian school expect to be indoctrinated.
> silly, silly, people.

I certainly could be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if Notre Dame tracked anyone's attendance at mass. I can't even hazard a guess as to what Moody Bible Institute does.

Edited to add the following:

I googled "Notre Dame student attendance at mass" and was directed to the following link: http://blogs.nd.edu/oblation/2015/08/25/go-to-mass/

It seems as though the leadership of Notre Dame is concerned about declining student attendance at mass as evidenced by low mass attendance, but there's no indication that individual student attendance at mass is tracked. Tracking individual students' attendance at mass is something that seems more prevalent among cultists and/or fundies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 08:37AM by scmd.

Exactly. Churches at large may lament the lack of attendance, but they don't keep keep rolls, assign places of worship or track whether any particular student is coming. That's cult behavior...

You do not need an "endorsement" to attend a Catholic University. At all. If you go to Mass, great. If not, okay. You cannot get thrown out of school for not believing in God.

When you apply and are accepted to a Catholic University, you understand that part of your education will be couched in the values and beliefs of the church, but you do not have to accept them to advance your education. The church owns the school, so they teach their values. You accept that is part of the deal when you attend.

If someone does not believe, why would they go there? Because the school may have a program of study they wish to pursue or a scholarship was offered. The Catholic influence is there, but probably no more than the "New York" influence is in NYU or The "New Orleans" influence is in Tulane.

Exactly. I went to an ELCA-owned university, but only 30% of the student body was Lutheran.

What CES is doing here has been labeled "cultish" by many in this thread, and it may seem that way now. But historically, this was commonplace at religious universities. Said ELCA university (then college) had compulsory attendance at daily chapel services up until the 1960s, with assigned seating so attendance could be taken easily and everyone would know if one of their classmates was absent. CES and the church at large are a relic of a mercifully-bygone time, and as they continue to "kick against the pricks" of change, things will only get worse for them.

I attended Mass exactly twice at my Catholic college--orientation day and graduation day. No one ever badgered, coerced, or threatened me in any way. And certainly no one sent a letter to my parents. I was treated like an adult.

AFAIK Catholic institutions of higher learning do not track student attendance at mass.

poopstone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> forgive me but wouldn't Notre Dame have the same
> policy? How about Moody institute? If they go to a
> christian school expect to be indoctrinated.
> silly, silly, people.

I have a friend (catholic) who attended Notre Dame.
There is NO church attendance policy of any kind.
You don't have to be Catholic to go there.
If you're Catholic and go there, and then "convert" to something else, or become atheist/agnostic, there are no repercussions whatsoever.
Anyone there is free to express any opinion about the Catholic church they want to -- even open criticism of the church, its leaders, its policies, etc.

Moody? That's another story. But then, it has the same kind of religious idiocy as BYU does...

Why is a university sending any kind of notes home to adult students' parents?

GOOD QUESTION !!!

Okay , BYU-I...........What say ye???

Just what I was thinking. I have a college age child and I am not privy to any of her college information (grades, financials, class schedule, etc.) unless she puts me on her account. I tried to pay a fee for her last year and she forgot to call the accounting office first to authorize it. They wouldn't let me pay it until she called and gave permission.

It's none of the parents' business. The students are adults. Most universities take student privacy very seriously. Because the LDS church and BYU-I are really one and the same, if this isn't completely illegal they're probably walking a very fine line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 01:11PM by want2bx.

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”

My, my.

Wasn't-that-Satan's-plan?-ly yrs,

S

YESSSSSSSS !!!!!
It WAS Satan's plan !

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”

This is exactly what I mean when I say The Brethren believe in the mission of Mormonism -- even if they (probably) don't believe Mormonism itself.


"Did Christ Laugh?" debate from "The Name Of The Rose" (1986)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUUB96c6EpY#t=0m48s



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 10:07AM by anybody.

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”


Now that's the best 'believe in a god in case there is one' comment I have heard in a long while.

—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”


The 'craft' is of course an insider's reference to freemasonry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a940v3fGcBI

In February of 2013, at my terminally ill TBM ex MIL's request, I drove her to Rexburg, Idaho to be present for her grandson's pre mission temple endowment session.

I had attended Ricks (Not Much of a) college several decades earlier. There was no temple in Rexburg when I went to Ricks college. While my ex MIL was in the temple session, I walked around the campus at Ricks just to see what memories and impressions it would conjure up. It was late in the evening and quite cold which is typical of Rexburg that time of year. There were very few people on campus. It's hard to describe how I really felt. I walked into various buildings where I had various classes. I guess I will say that it was not very inspiring back then even though it claimed to be, and it was pretty eerie and harrowing to be in that environment again. Most of all, I am amazed that I put up with being there back then, in that ultra vacuous soul sucking environment. What a huge waste of time, and killing time while waiting to go on a mission is exactly what I was doing. LDS Inc's over grown post High School church seminary program posing as a college was the perfect place to keep me held in check until I could be thrust into the mission field. I felt like a ghost walking around and seeing all that stuff again. I am so glad that I no longer live a MORmON centered life.

I don't really care what anybody says. I think any "school" the LDS church runs does two things and two things only.

It helps its members get married.

And it teaches people how to cheat, lie, and steal.

So much for an Honor Code, now it's back to the old days as this letter implies that there are spies like the Wilkenson days!
This is not going to bode well - but agency is not free and does not have anything to do with anything but: choosing the right- Heavenly Father, or the wrong - Satan!

one of my kids attending BYU Provo was told that missing three sundays in the semester would cause withdrawal of her endorsement, and therefore kick her out of school.

Attending your home ward, with your parents over a holiday weekend DID NOT COUNT. Attending any other BYU ward DID NOT COUNT. Attendance was taken during at least two different meetings every sunday.

So, when she came home for holiday weekends, she had to leave on saturday night to be there for stupid meetings. Then be away from family sunday/monday.

This was just a few years ago, those BYU schools are not healthy .....

And all that jumping through hoops to get a degree from one of the least-respected "universities" in the country. Does anyone regard BYU-I as anything more than a glorified high school?

I know of a former BYUI employee who told me personally she was subject to tracking and doing lots of church related stuff that had nothing to do with the job. For example, having to complete a weekly assessment of how she "shared her faith in Christ" with her class or how she "improved her personal testimony etc" during the week. If she did not cheerfully comply and do the reviews and participate in after hours "in-service" type meetings there was always a veiled threat about employment status. The faith and church related parts of the class were seen as more important than teaching. BYUI admin likes to create an atmosphere where "you can never do enough or be good enough and you should be very grateful the LORD has given you this job." You are always asked to weekly evaluate your personal standing before God in this no-win context. This person got fed up and quit, but not before a final harassment session set up by the university and her bishop.

The same thing is happening here: a threat that if you do not attend church enough you will get kicked out and have to go to another school. I'm guessing they also push the "you are never good enough" idea. The big problem here is that other schools see BYUI has having a heavy religion bias and won't accept religion classes and other classes as credits, so if you switch schools you have to redo a lot of classes. This threat really does matter, especially if you are several years into your degree. You either comply unitl you graduate or get totally screwed and redo a year or so of school to make up the lost religion bias credits.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 12:26PM by perky.

More examples of extortion.

This time, time is the currency

I always feel that it's best if policies (no matter how awful or unjust) are written down so that everyone knows what is expected. But what is up with sending a letter to the student's parents and home bishop about church absences? This is an example of excessive nannying. In my opinion parents should only be contacted if a student is suffering from an extreme medical emergency.

While this policy has been around for a long time, Ricks/BYUI is one F***d-up place and the community is just as bad.
The people of this community are the epitome of those who profess strong adherence to the commandments, hold other people to their standards, while they themselves don't live them. It's all about appearances here and ignoring their their racist, homophobic, and prejudiced views. They are arrogant, entitled, and legends in their minds only.

The school is not a place to get an education. It's a religious college that is the training ground for future mormon fanatics. There are employees of the University, in spite of having a tuition benefit for their children, do not send their kids to BYUI. That's how bad it is.

This cultural and religious atmosphere is not new for Rexburg. It's been here for decades.

BYUI,in the last 2 years, has been in the national news for it's video on turning in roommates for masturbation and pornography, for a adjunct professor using school facilities to promote himself as a therapist who can fix homosexuality.

I'm glad to see that the school is shooting themselves in the foot again. They deserve it.

"Free Agency" was the teaching that most resounded with my thinking when I converted to Mormonism forty years ago. When free agency diminished as a teaching and practice within said church, so did my belief. I think free agency is no longer any part of Mormonism. It has mutated into freedom to do what you are told or suffer and suffer and suffer the overblown consequences. Choice is no longer an option.

I graduated from BYU-Provo but did not attend church all the time. Nobody gave me any grief about it. I always put my studies first. If I had to live with the long arm of the law constantly watching me at that institution I would never have graduated. I would have transfered out ASAP.

My attendance and/or lack of same at church and Old Testament class were factors in my not being invited to return to Ricks/BYUI back in '67. And my run in with Paul Jones (I was innocent BTW), the self important little pipsqueak Honor Council commandant may have weighed in on it too. The last 2 months of the second semester were just me playing out the string as I knew I wasn't coming back...or wanting too. I wasn't Mormon enough to endure another minute in Rexburg. Fucking rathole wannabe college, fucking rathole town.

RB

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”

Just wow...He must be having a mental breakdown. This is one of the sickest statements I have seen. Just WOW!!

To me, it seems that BYU-I is following Satan's plan according to their beliefs, as Satan was the one in the story that wanted to force people to be Mormon, and the strict church attendance rule is an example of this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2016 02:53PM by adoylelb.

Notice how Brooks makes it clear that his "enshrouded" quote is his opinion, but when attributed to a GA, it now becomes an "Eternal Truth".