I know this subject is old & tired. I can't believe how greedy this church is. My 'Beef" is "why in hell can't they PAY the damned custodians in the church. The High Priests Group leader & his 2nd counselor came for a 'Get to know you visit'. His counselor is such a crusty old bastard. Yet, I kind've liked & respected him because he shot from the hip.
Right off the bat, they wanted to know if my DH could go on splits with the elders & take his turn every month for the cleaning of the stake center. I yelled " Oh hell No." (Mainly due to health situations that II know my DH has but he doesn't want others to know about. Plus the fact that we don't have a car right now.)

Being permanent , PAID , custodians would give a man or/and a woman an honest job to be able to support their families. But Nooooo...........they don't wanna pay anyone, in the name of 'service.'
May I just tell you all something. I know that all of the Big 15 in Salt Lake City , and all of the leaders of the auxillary organizations PAY to have someone come 'n clean their homes. (Years ago , when I used to clean homes , I cleaned for a lot of these people.) They pay people to clean their church houses because they are ' ohhh so busy & can't do it themselves.

I just feel that if everyone in the church would stand together & start saying 'Helllll no. We are all to busy & those who don't have a decent job could do this' !!!!

This church is ALLL about the almighty F'n dollar & the leaders of the church looking good.
The people who clean the church offices bldg & the conference
center get paid , right.
If I am wrong on all of this , PLEAZ feel free to clarify what I'm saying.

Our friend was a church cleaner who got some cacamungie mold in her lungs from the moldy old mausoleum bathroom.

Her dad and brother were telling us about it--both former bishops.

So, I had to ask if the church helped with any of her medical expenses. Not. One. Dime.

Dad and bro were very angry. Wonder if they are still forking over their ten percent.

Based on figures I've seen, the Mormon church rakes in a huge amount of money -- more than most other denominations. If you look at the average budget for churches in those other denominations, you see that roughly have of their donations are used to pay salaries -- for their minister, assistant minister, youth minister, organist, custodian, landscaper, secretary, etc.

So figure that a couple hundred thousand dollars from each Mormon ward each year that would otherwise be spent on salaries and benefits instead goes to SLC...for what? Yes, the Mormon church has to fund missions and temples and BYU. But that can not account for the huge sums flowing into bank coffers each and every week. Where does the money go? The Mormon church is not saying.

And meanwhile, after donating so generously to their church, church members are expected to sweep, vacuum, dust, and clean the toilets.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who don't like this new policy but still show up for their cleaning shift. Everyone just needs to refuse to clean and at some point the old boys will have to reverse their policy because people will refuse to take their families into filthy buildings.

+1 ~~ EXACTLY !

What was their reaction to, "Hell no?"

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What was their reaction to, "Hell no?"


*** " Oh ! Well, okay ". ( Then I explained a little more & they said they understood now & would excuss my DH.) I meaN , we haven't been to church in 6 years & we get a 'yearly visit' & they hit DH right off of ' the bat' with this?!! Hell No !)

You can bet the people who volunteer for this stuff make far more in their day jobs than a housekeeper. That's how much TSCC values your time. I understand the social leveling thing, but it's demeaning for the people who have worked long and hard to be a productive member of society to have their time pissed away.

I've been a janitor (4:00 am BYU job). It really wasn't so bad-except for the hours-and it shouldn't be considered demeaning. It's honest work. I do question how well things are going to get cleaned if they have to train new people virtually every time, and if people don't really want to be there. BTW, how often do they disinfect the toilets? Because if you tell me they only do it on Saturdays, I'm never going to use one of their bathrooms again.

So glad I left the church before they started doing it this way. Nobody should be assigned and EXPECTED to perform any service for free. That's not service. That's just co-opting people's time. Members donate too much time and money to the church already. They already give up their Sundays every weekend, and part of Saturday to make preparations for it. If people WANT to volunteer, that's fine, but they shouldn't be assigned.

I donated service to the LDS church for decades (Also happened to be my profession). It kind of burns me up now, because the tiny and poor Unitarian group I went to after I left the church paid me for the same job. Not much, but they valued me more, and they also showed appreciation. Not surprisingly, I had more fun doing that job, and I put more effort into it than I EVER did at the LDS church.

The LDS church just EXPECTS people to work for free, in any job they are assigned to do. They should take a hint from the Unitarians. If they want people to do better than a half-assed job, maybe they should let them pick their own jobs, and pay for professional services.

If they can get you to clean their toilets, they know they got you.

Toilet cleaning as a litmus test that fills their coffers. They don't need to hook anyone up to a Hubbard machine, just point them towards a $0.99 bowl brush.

A bowl brush as a Mormon E-meter - porcelain skulls scoured shiny white.

"If they can get you to clean their toilets, they know they got you."

Actually, when they can make you wear the underwear that they dictate, they've got you. Cleaning toilets is just part of the progression.

The trouble is that most Mormons are too beaten down and subservient to say no, so the buildings will stay dirty except for when a go-getter take on the task occasionally.

I'd never go to a church which didn't pay for regular thorough cleaning. It shows a lack of self respect and decency for a church to expect worshippers to dust and vacuum the premises for free.

If I was still a Mormon and felt some ridiculous need to conform or contribute to cleaning the meeting house I would just take the money out of my tithing and fast offering and hire a professional cleaner to do my job on my night. You see, I am extremely sensitive to toxic cleaning solutions and couldn't do it myself yet I would want to attend a clean meeting house. They could have my tithing and hire a professional team themselves. Or they could forfeit the tithing and I'd hire the cleaners. Win-Win in my book.

I think this tactic would change things pretty quickly at LDS, Inc. if everyone chose this method of rebellion.

One more thing-

I know I'd be forfeiting the "blessings" of serving the Lord by not doing the cleaning myself but I'll keep my lungs healthy and let the Lord keep his blessings for somebody else who is more deserving.

nitrameequc, Hope you aren't paying tithing anymore but if you are take out enough to pay someone to do whatever tscc is asking you to do as free service. Even if it is baking cookies or such. Just take it out of tithing and buy a professionally baked cake or cookies.

I left the church before they started the "Every Member A Janitor" program. I wonder how many members went inactive because they didn't want to clean the church too?

Things will change if
1) everyone says no
2) enough people get sick from a dirty building that it makes the news and is bad PR for the church

My FIL was a custodian at one of the SLC Avenues chapels. One of the last custodians. He retired about the time they announced the new policy. I thought it was ridiculous. I'm guessing but I would suspect they are saving around $100K/yr per building. Salary, pension, health care, FICA, FED/State taxes.

When it was announced my very first thought was "Sacrifice your time, talents and all that the Lord has blessed you with to the Church" What more?. I was a student at the time so It was a bitter pill to swallow. It's like handing the church a blank check. I end up paying what ever the church want's to writes in.

I will be honest. I don't think it's so bad to ask members to clean the church...my kids actually liked it and it was a good opportunity to teach them about service.

What I do wish, however, is that there was something more...out of the ordinary, I guess, but I think of it because of what the OP wrote: the church should expect that nobody pays anyone else to clean their homes, either. Too much to expect and would be a strange declaration but if it's good for the church to have volunteers, then it should be good for members,

Don't the members volunteer enough of their time and money already?

A colleague's husband owns a lawn service business; we were talking recently and she mentioned he had the local LDS church account here. I know his services don't come cheap.

But I'm also sure that the Morg saves money in the long run by not having to pay wages, benefits, taxes, retirement, health care, etc.

As it gets harder and harder to get volunteers, I think they'll go this route for their janitor services as well.

Can't imagine with this approach to cleaning that the church has not had some big problems arise in the area of illness occurring. Maybe even some law suits.

Of course, their empathy for members who might have been victims would be zilch.

Such a loving church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2016 05:30PM by presleynfactsrock.

I would think the health department would take an interest in filthy ward houses. They certainly take and interest in filthy restaurants. And my union once got a school shut down for an entire week until certain issues relating to health were addressed.

Anymore I think it's just a game that the big 15 play. Since it would be evil to have a Saturday night poker game in the holy of schmolies, they bet on how many ridiculous things they can get the sheeple to do.

So a dozen or so years ago one of them said, "Hey, what do you think would happen if we fired all the janitors and told the ward members THEY had to clean the church. On Saturday, the one day they might have a little time with their families?"

One of the other geezers chimed in: "never in a million years would they go for that. They'll revolt. They'll quit giving us their clubhouse dues, they won't come to church, they won't pay for their kids to be our salesmen."

Next geezer: "Hey, I know, we can tell them Gordy had a revelation and God said they had to do it."

Previous geezer: "How long can we get away with that revelation thing. Eventually they're going to catch on and say something like, 'wait a minute, God gives him revelations about janitorial work and earrings and gays but didn't say a word about 9/11?'"

"OK, let's bet. I'm putting in $1,000. Remind me to call the finance department and tell them to up my pay by that much. Who's in? Hey Tommy, surely you think they'll do it."

Tommy: "Nah, I think they've probably been pushed to the brink. But I'm willing to lose on this one because it will be neat if they fall for it. If they do, when Gordy kicks off, I'm gonna get rid of all the fags and even tell them that God said their kids can't get baptized!"

Geezer 1" Now calm down, Thomas ol buddy ol pal. Let's not get carried away. We all know they would never in a million years go for that one. But the janitor thing, maybe. Well, who knows. If they do go for the janitor revelation, we just may be able to work on that fag thing. We'll get pickle man to tell everyone there are no homos in the church. Bwahahahahahah."

Bednar: "Quit picking on me. Y'all act like that's all I'm here for, to be the butt of your jokes. And quit calling me Pickle Man!"