It was rough. About a hundred times worse than I even dared to expect. And I expected it to be rough.
I got every canned Mormon response. I felt like I was expressing myself very well and VERY politely. Maybe that's why they stepped all over me. I don't know.
I didn't think I would be asked to explain myself in so many different ways. I wasn't prepared for the interrogation or the anger.
I am glad I did it. I am glad that I don't have an entire section of my life that is veiled in secrecy.
But I can say with certainty that I wish I never had to do this. When they asked me (while I was crying) if this was making me happy, I wish I could have told them how happy I would be if I didn't have a completely Mormon family! If I didn't have to ruin my relationships with everyone in my life in order to find happiness. THAT would make me very happy! But yes, it causes me pain to see others feel pain. I'm human. If my change in belief didn't cause my entire family to treat me like the plague, I would be the happiest I've ever been. But it does. And they do. So the reality is that right now, it really sucks.

I'm hoping these emotions will soften. Time will tell.

Difficult, I'm sure. Kudos to you for standing up for yourself and your convictions!

Sorry it turned out so much more difficult than you expected. I'm sure you handled it the best you could. At least now the healing can start.

The fact that you were crying while they asked you if it was making you "happy" is really telling. They were completely unsympathetic with your pain, only thinking of their own. That self-centeredness is a sign of emotional immaturity. The cult really seems to feed that tendency in some people.

"That self-centeredness is a sign of emotional immaturity."

What it is a sign of is MORMONISM! AKA MORONISM

YOu did the right thing. It will get easier.

Don't beat yourself up because it might not of gone as smoothly as you'd hoped. Just expressing yourself is great.

The pain and frustration will subside. Eventually.

Thanks for reporting the outcome. I had it easy coming from a mostly non-Mormon family but the little bit of rejection I got from my LDS (so called) friends hurts to this day. I'll try to multiply that by 10,000 and imagine what it is like to have your family act that way and, still, I doubt it is the same.

You did the only thing you could do. It takes a long time before many of life's trailblazers ever get the recognition they are due. Most don't see it in their own lifetime. It's too bad that being right doesn't make you popular. It just makes you right. But you must be able to live your life in truth and honesty. You'll always have that to hold onto. Congratulations for having so much courage.

I sure hope that your family calm down, get real, and, with luck, at least one of them also sees the light and tells you.

Sorry to hear it was even worse than you expected. That really does suck.

At least now, you are living openly and authentically. Which means you are free and living with a clear conscience.

A bit of advice going forward if and when they come back at you, wanting to engage you in discussions and you are not ready for it. Tell them "I love you, but I don't believe in Mormonism. Let's not make this a wedge"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2016 04:22PM by angela.

"It was rough. About a hundred times worse than I even dared to expect. And I expected it to be rough.
I got every canned Mormon response."

Don't you wish you could just respond with "Tens of thousands of Mormons are leaving the church every year. Have you ever bothered to ask yourself why?"

I think those Mormons who watch others leave LDS, Inc. in droves are telling themselves just how extra special righteous they are for staying since those who leave are simply "lazy, evil, and lovers of sin". That is the pat answer. These are (just as every generation has been) the last days so the chaff and tares must be divided. Ho, hum! Nothing is new.

And if hoards start joining the TSCC it is the same answer. These are the last days and we are receiving the righteous who are fleeing the sin filled world. Logic and reason need not apply at LDS, Inc. They are never needed.

"I think those Mormons who watch others leave LDS, Inc. in droves are telling themselves just how extra special righteous they are for staying since those who leave are simply "lazy, evil, and lovers of sin". That is the pat answer."

True, but I'd like to believe that the day will come when so many good people who are TBMs leave the church that the remaining TBMs can no longer fool themselves into believing that all of the leavers are sinners. That would probably require a sizable exodus of former bishops, high councilors, SPs, and maybe a few GAs. It would also help if more of that kind of people would begin speaking out against the church.

They do not deserve someone as honest and open as you in the family.

I predict round two will be subtle digs and attempts to set you right. My mom would leave open church magazine articles on my kitchen counter with stupid statements highlighted that she thought would somehow correct my thinking. Sheesh!

There will be a strain in your relationships going forward, no doubt. You will need to decide how to deal with it. For example, you may need to set the rules that religion is off bounds in any conversation with you.

I finally just walked away from several family members. Frankly, they were just too stupid to bother with. They had zero potential of having any conversation without Mormon filters.

Other family members are great. They sincerely don't seem to care what belief status I have. At least they have the good sense to shut up about their church.

Good luck. They made you cry and feel bad. That tells you a lot. Don't let them bully you in the future. Develop some one-liners to shame them and shut down any conversation that you feel is damaging to yourself.

I am glad you came back to report. Remember, they are dealing from a position of fear. At this point I am sure that is as far as they can get.

Susan I/S is exactly right. Remember the detailed account of Tom Phillips? He had his second anointing by Elder Ballard in the Preston England Temple. He asked specific questions of Apostle Jeffrey Holland who refused to give answers. Holland could only tell Tom to "think about your family."

Holland knows how the mental programing from LDS correlation works. He understands the reaction that Mormons have when someone leaves and is able to articulate rational reasons. Holland knows that he cannot tell the truth. He is stuck in the system perpetuating a belief system that he knows is NOT God's one-true-church. But he justifies himself and might think "what else builds such beautiful families?"

Tom Phillips had integrity to stand with truth. He has suffered the finger pointing and lashings from family members.

And the sad part of this is that the LDS church leaders stand by and take the side of the shunning and accusations of betrayal or apostasy. They have to keep their earthly kingdom financed and moving to their designs. Really, it's quite sad and definitely the exact opposite of what we are told "is divine."

Most of us on RFM *know* how imbedded TBMs react. We were once conditioned too.

Thank goodness for RFM where we can come and find refuge!

I am truly sorry you had to go through all that and probably more to come. I feel so very fortunate that both my wife and I were converts so that when we left it was somewhat easier seeing as how the only others of our family in the church were our kids. They all left before we did.

SO sorry mate. I send my love, it is REALLY tough for you.

I just had a conversation with my wife due to the appointment I have with the Stake President and the very real probability of excommunication. The conversation ended quickly with her not wanting to hear about it. Head firmly in the sand out of fear (Susan I/S is correct).

There are a ton of us there with you. Hang in there. We can hope something will cause our loved ones to think a little more deeply or to venture out of their position of fear.

Meanwhile, patience in this process goes a long way.

I am in awe of your integrity and courage.

Isn't it amazing how deeply invested your family members are in your own personal beliefs?

Remember, you don't need to justify your decision to leave the church to anyone. I would just say to them, "Isn't it nice where we live in a country where no one compels you to abandon your faith, and no one compels me to accept it for myself? It's a two-way street. You can't have one without the other."

+1K

Sorry it was so rough. It's such a vulnerable thing when you tell someone why you left the church. It says a lot about them that they went at you when you were crying.

I'm going to give you some advice, now. You need to stop caring about their feelings more than they care about your own. Leaving the church isn't something you did TO them. They'll be okay, but you will end up an emotional wreck if you allow them to shred you.

Figure out what you are going to say the next time they start in. Say what needs to be said to communicate that you've made your decision and if they want to talk to you about it, they'll need to be respectful and kind.

But for the time being, if you don't know WHAT to say, just say "STOP IT." Sometimes that's better than any argument. Because if you try to defend or explain yourself, you are accepting their choice to attack, and it keeps the discussion going. Defending yourself verbally is like saying "you are wrong about that one point", instead of saying "you are wrong to attack me in the first place".

Another suggestion: have boundaries about if or when you want to discuss these things. I let TBMs throw emotional grenades into my life more times than I should have. I should have just ignored e-mails and letters that came when I had other things to do. Know what THEIR emotional stuff is and what YOUR emotional stuff is, and don't mix the two.

So sorry.

Darkfem had it right. Courage and integrity, integrity and courage. Way to go.

+100

I am happy that you never have to do it again. I am sorry that they responded the same way that my family did. ALL fear. Then the emotional manipulation starts. But you are now free and ready to live your life. I have found several people that I can vent to about my family. Here is a wonderful resource. I wish you the best of luck with your family. I hope they can find the truth and leave.

Shadow,
Remember we are very much here for you. Turn to us when you want or need to. We know how painful this is, how hurtful their reaction is. Like Susan I/S said, they are fearful right now. Fear can manifest itself as anger.

Take some time over the next few weeks and list the things that make you you. Your successes, your accomplishments, your hobbies, things you've done for friends, relatives and especially for those you didn't know, things only you know about.

List things that haven't gone right, your failures, and what your learned from these life experiences. List how the failures and successes have changed your life and those around you.

Celebrate your life, where you came form, where you're at and where you might be in the future.

You've earned everything you have.

Thank you everyone. My husband and I have been reading these messages all day and gaining some serious strength from you all. Luckily, talking to some wonderful siblings has helped lighten the load. They don't all feel the way our parents do, which is very helpful. I've been trying to reassure myself all day that I can't be responsible for other people's happiness. We are doing what is best for us and our children. We are doing what is right in our own consciences. What more can we do?

I love you all and appreciate the family you have become.

Good for you. Well done.

You were true and honest. You're not the one who caused this havoc. The Mormon church promised them the impossible and they couldn't take it.

I'm proud of you even if they don't see your high ideals as we do here on RFM.

Good for you. I won't say anything more except to echo a couple other posters to say that you shouldn't have to defend yourself at all. You made the decision and that is is. Bless you.

BRAVO !!!!!!!!

You were frightened and they even bullied you and yet you

did it. That's called courage. I think that's wonderful.

You'll never have to do it again with them and now you

can feel so good about yourself for meeting the challenge

and not running from it. You have guts.

If nothing else proves to you that TSCC is a cult, that should.
Not many people get out fully intact. Most lose marriages, kids, friends and more. Welcome to the survivors club.

The most interesting aspect of leaving Mormonism for me was the reactions of other TBM family and friends when it happened. I learned a lot about what kind of people they really are, something I didn't really see earlier through the haze of Mormonism.

When I quit, I didn't really say anything. I had a very long letter written out but never sent it.

Initially, a few TBM family members phoned and chewed me out for leaving, telling me it was a "terrible mistake." That was fun.I actually never expected a hostile response like that and was a little surprised, and thus didn't really have a comeback. I was so upset by their anger for months I didn't want to have anything to do with them, and years later, we still barely speak.

Another TBM asked if he was the reason we quit. No, that wasn't it, but his TBM superiority complex was certainly never fun to be around.

If I were to do it again, I would probably just have laughed at the hostile family members, or said, "Why are you so angry and why does this matter so much to you, anyway?"

The one who asked if it was his fault, I would have probably said - "Not exactly. But you are a bit of a fanatic, and that doesn't work for me at all." (That family member's TBM actions were always over the top, and he should have been told that he is extreme.)

The reality is there is no easy way to tell some TBMs about this type of decision. Some are so super sensitive about it, it's hard to predict how they'll respond. It would be nice to be able to help them accept and get over it, kind of like John Dehlin tried to do - but even that doesn't work for many TBMs.

I'm sorry that you have to go through this.

My only suggestion is to flip it around on them in the future.

Anytime I was asked about why I left the church, I questioned them, "Would anything that I say make a difference to how you feel about the church?" The answer was always "No, of course not."

I then responded "Then why should I tell you? I've made a decision and it's final. You just stated that you will disbelieve anything I say."

It really kills the conversation when you refuse to give information that is NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS. They are only looking for ways to "fix" you. Or to borrow from the MTC training "resolve your concerns".