I'm not religious. I don't believe in any god or gods or the existence of the supernatural. I may not be religious but I can respect other people's views.

However, in these latter days, the societies of western countries are becoming more and more polarised between younger, liberal, non-religious urban dwellers and conservative older people who live outside of cities and/or rural areas. The line between the religion and politics has become blurred -- especially in America. Here's what I think.


Evangelical Protestant Christianity:

I have good friends who consider themselves to be born-again Christians. They are just as dismayed as I am at the level of religious hate and discord and plain silliness coming from the fundies. Younger people are abandoning organised religion (and intolerance) in droves. The evangelicals are becoming more and more intolerant and extreme. By mid-century they are going to lose a lot of their power and influence. I really don't understand these people. Every month they create new threats to crusade against. How can you have so much hate and fear inside without becoming totally paranoid or going totally mad is beyond me.


Catholicism:

Most Catholics today are a far cry from the likes of Fulton Sheen and Father Coughlin and are committed to service and social justice. Immigration from Latin America will increase their membership which has been declining. Conservative clergy are still railing against all of the hot button issues (divorce, same-sex marriage, contraception, abortion) but the laity don't seem to be listening.


Islam:

There is a big difference between Islam the religion (which is worldwide and comes in many different flavours) and the Islam of geopolitics and mideast conflict. There's also a big difference between Muslims who immigrated to America and Britain (who tend to be educated professionals) vs. Muslims in continental Europe (who tend to be less educated and working class). I think a lot of people fear Islam because it's strange and unfamiliar. A lot of the hysteria is very similar to the "Yellow Peril" scares of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Some people in the West will always think Islam=terrorism but this too will eventually change. Islam is at a crossroads -- just as Christianity was five hundred years ago. Will Muslims in the West start an Islamic Reformation? Guess we'll have to wait and see. I've seen old films from the 20s, 30s and 1950s and Islamic/Arab/Persian culture seemed to be all the rage. Things sure have changed.


Judaism:

From what I can gather the big current issues are (1) Who's really a Jew (that one never goes away), (2) exogamy and secularism and (3) increasing influence of the ultra-Orthodox. Most Jews that I know are very much into social justice like my Catholic friends and tend to be secular but still consider themselves to be Jewish at least on a cultural level.


Mormonism:

Had to save the best (or worse) for last. I don't like Mormonism. It's ridiculous and absurd and totally fake. It's hurt me in several ways. I have some Mormon friends and if they want to stay in The Church™ for whatever reason that's their choice. Eventually I think they will find their way out in their own time. The Information Age has changed things. The leadership have watered down the theology to the point that I think it's just going to become an ethnic identity eventually.

As for the Brethren, they are going to have a crisis in leadership as most of them are past seventy and will begin to decline and die off soon -- just as in the old USSR. The fifty and sixty year olds who will take their place are in for a lot of trouble. They are going to have big problems in the next twenty to thirty years dealing with a society that is multi-ethnic and non-majority white and accepting of sexual minorities. I think Mormonism will return to Utah-centric quasi cult status as it was before the 1950s.


Well, that's what I think. What's your opinion? I didn't even get to Hinduism or Buddhism.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2016 09:41PM by anybody.

B.S.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> B.S.

What is B.S.???

I think anybody wrote a very good synopsis.

What do you disagree with???

those descriptions of those religions read like something a used car salesman would write about the cars he is selling.
Totally non-objective.

Dave has never had anything good to say about any religion. So figure that into your view of his opinion.

...even if it's just make-believe. I didn't make the world -- I just live in it.

Good post, anybody!!!

Here's my response to the one I know the most about:

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Judaism:
>
> From what I can gather the big current issues are
> (1) Who's really a Jew (that one never goes away),
> (2) exogamy and secularism and (3) increasing
> influence of the ultra-Orthodox. Most Jews that I
> know are very much into social justice like my
> Catholic friends and tend to be secular but still
> consider themselves to be Jewish at least on a
> cultural level.

1) "Who Is A Jew?" is usually the most contentious issue in Judaism, but at the same time, Jews have now (in 2016) come to accommodations with each other on this particular issue (something that really began in the 1950s), and these accommodations now usually work more-or-less well, at least most of the time.

The huge, gigantic issue is Israel, because things that are "civil" matters in most Western countries are "religious" matters in Israel (marriage, divorce, burial, etc.), but even here there are accepted accommodations, and some things seem to be loosening up (especially now that Orthodox women are being ordained as Orthodox rabbis). Conservative Jewish conversions are being accepted more-and-more in Israel in many different ways, and (more often than anyone would like to admit) with the whispered-behind-a-hand okay of the Chief Rabbinates (but it is still going to be a very long time before Reform Jews get to this point in Israel).

Overall, the "Who Is A Jew?" issue is improving with the dawn of each Jewish New Year.

2) Overall, secularism is growing robustly---even though a sizable portion of "secular" Jews INSIST that they are Orthodox (mostly from the different ethnic groups: Syrian, Yemeni, Iranian, etc.). What they are really saying is: They remain the proud offspring of their families, and if they go to High Holy Day Services, you better believe that it is going to be in an ORTHODOX synagogue...and if they are saying Kaddish for a deceased parent, etc., it is going to be in an ORTHODOX congregation (if they can possibly do it given where they work, etc.)...but for the other Jewish observances, their observance level is, mmmmmmmmm...actually NOT so observant. ;) Another way of saying this is: those who IDENTIFY as Orthodox are not necessarily Orthodox in their life practices, except for those practices they consider really important from a family viewpoint (like saying Kaddish).

3) In Israel, the Orthodox constitute their own "sector" of the Israeli government...and the ultra-Orthodox live in usually very highly segregated areas (for everyone's comfort), and they usually have lots and lots of kids. There is certainly growth there.

On the other hand, there is a growing outflow of born-and-raised Orthodox who are becoming less Orthodox in their lifestyles or are becoming secular.

Orthodox young women can choose to do their military service in a "dati" [highly-Orthodox conforming] sector...or in a "regular" IDF [Israeli Defense Forces] way [Orthodox in things like food...very often not Orthodox in things like sex]...or in a "lo dati" ["not religious"] secular way that is sort of a combination of eating kosher military food, going to services when feeling led to do it, and otherwise being like any other secular Jew. Although some secular-leaning Jews do become more "religious" [means: observant] as a result of their IDF service, my sense is that the REAL flow is from the more-religious/"observant" to lesser observance in their daily lives.

In certain areas of North America, there is now outflow from the ultra-Orthodox to the more secular "communities" of Jews, but the birth rate is high among the ultra-Orthodox, and so the actual numbers might be going in the "ultra-Orthodox" direction...

...at least, until those ultra-Orthodox-raised kids reach adolescence or young adulthood, when there is often movement towards the secular left. When one adolescent or young adult ultra-Orthodox person leaves their community for the secular world, at least some siblings often follow in succeeding years.

My conclusion: regardless of the numbers at any moment in time, the overall direction of movement is, I think, towards the secular world.

Again, very good post, anybody!!!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2016 09:28PM by Tevai.

I pass on all of them. None of them offer anything that is of the slightest interest to me. Why waste a wonderful life on religion?

I had a dream about religion once. I saw a giant sparkling translucent hand with the fingers splayed, the fingers presumably representing the five major religions. Babies would grab onto one of the fingers to help balance as they learned to walk. After you learn to walk, you don't need the finger.

Yeah, but don't bend over...

All irrelevant.


RB

Define: Latter days

Religions are basically book clubs... Only the books aren't very good, the discussions are bland, and people take the stories way too seriously...

Get better books and better discussions and I'd probably drop in once in a while...

I think it's a good start, though you're missing a lot about the religions you mentioned, and you're missing tens of thousands of religions. :)

There's non-evangelical Christianity, a.k.a. mainline Protestantism — Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. — which is primarily a place people go to feel good about themselves and make social connections.

There's Unitarian Universalism, which has been called the church for atheists with kids. I gave it a try for a while because I was feeling the need for a community and I appreciated its stand that your beliefs are something you figure out for yourself.

Somewhat related to that is the Cafeteria of Woo where people can assemble their own beliefs from a pile of spiritual ingredients appropriated from ancient cultures, pseudoscience, popular psychology, nature, body work, diet or whatever.

I'm okay with any religion/belief system that helps people be happier and better humans, that does no harm to them or to others, that helps people who need it and that doesn't recruit or try to force others to conform.

Evangelical Protestant Christianity:

There are a lot of children whose bodies get older, who will never be able to function or think for themselves critically, who need authority figures to help them distinguish between right and wrong, and effectively control them with the threat of eternal torment if they don't behave themselves.

Many of these people are frightened of death, and this religion serves as a comfort to them which enables them to continue functioning in society without giving up due to the inevitable realization that they're not a special snowflake whose existence doesn't impact anything significant on a universal scale they're incapable of grasping in the first place.

Evangelical Protestant Christianity is a powerful tool that mitigates those risks for a significant percentage of the world population.


Catholicism:


There are a lot of children whose bodies get older, who will never be able to function or think for themselves critically, who need authority figures to help them distinguish between right and wrong, and effectively control them with the threat of eternal torment if they don't behave themselves.

Many of these people are frightened of death, and this religion serves as a comfort to them which enables them to continue functioning in society without giving up due to the inevitable realization that they're not a special snowflake whose existence doesn't impact anything significant on a universal scale they're incapable of grasping in the first place.
Catholicism is a powerful tool that mitigates those risks for a significant percentage of the world population.


Islam:


There are a lot of children whose bodies get older, who will never be able to function or think for themselves critically, who need authority figures to help them distinguish between right and wrong, and effectively control them with the threat of eternal torment if they don't behave themselves.

Many of these people are frightened of death, and this religion serves as a comfort to them which enables them to continue functioning in society without giving up due to the inevitable realization that they're not a special snowflake whose existence doesn't impact anything significant on a universal scale they're incapable of grasping in the first place.

Islam is a powerful tool that mitigates those risks for a significant percentage of the world population, with the added bonus of having the ability to turn its most ardent adherents into weapons.


Judaism:


There are a lot of children whose bodies get older, who will never be able to function or think for themselves critically, who need authority figures to help them distinguish between right and wrong, and effectively control them with the threat of eternal torment if they don't behave themselves.

Many of these people are frightened of death, and this religion serves as a comfort to them which enables them to continue functioning in society without giving up due to the inevitable realization that they're not a special snowflake whose existence doesn't impact anything significant on a universal scale they're incapable of grasping in the first place.

Judaism is a powerful tool that mitigates those risks for a small percentage of the world population.


Mormonism:

Please see Evangelical Protestant Christianity

Ka-Bammmmm!

You just nailed the coffin shut on religion although I already had put about a gazillion nails through the rotting wood myself.


I love your mind kolobian.

And I love YOU, blueorchid!

When I was twelve I told my parents that I wasn't going to church any longer and they couldn't make me believe in things that were made up and did not exist.

Many people just don't want to deal with thinking about things and want someone else to think for them so they turn to religion.

However, it seems now that religion is becoming more like a label or a brand or a culture.

An example of this is how Judaism is regarded as an ethnicity in continental Europe but as a religious faith in Britain and America.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2016 04:26PM by anybody.

Define "religion," because---for many people---certain "religions" are part of their identity, even if they do not believe the religious dogma or religious history components, and even if they do not observe whatever-it-is that is observed by that particular religion.

This is certainly true in Judaism, but it is also true for people whose ancestral religion is, say, Russian Orthodox---though they may not have gone to church, etc. for decades...but if you ask them "What religion are you?" they will instantly answer: Russian Orthodox.

Hindus do this...Buddhists do this...Native Americans do this.

I think you are inadvertently conflating "religion" with "identity" in a macro way that does not recognize the actual reality with literally millions of people.

If you ask someone their "religion," what they answer may be how they identify, rather than what they actually believe or actually observe.