I was just reading a missionary blog and I found this outrageous fragment.

"Our investigator working towards baptism is pretty much set to do it before I leave Kato. Unfortunately that could mean all the way til Oct 24, but as long as I'm here for it, I'm happy. One of our other guys is doing really well. He's the one who's too young to get baptized cause he's 16 and his parents don't approve, but he told his parents pretty much to back off this week. Haha, it was cool too, cause they went to the States for a while, and they were in Utah. Saw temples and stake centers and everything. He said he couldn't even find a Catholic church if he tried there."

Poles are not that kind of people who call cops or family services to deal with their private problems so i guess parents of this kid want to solve this problem on their own. But i mean what kind of bastard one has to be to target 15 or 16 year olds. And against their parents.

I mean this guy came to my country as a guest and he is behaving in such a outrageous way. Shame on you.

Link to the blog (it is in most recent post) http://elderloganhaskett.blogspot.com/

Link to a profile of this guy
https://www.mormon.org/me/HQYR/Logan


Can we do something? Any ideas?

Of course your ire is well directed, but missionaries are on a mission from ghawd, so...

While it's no excuse, at least this elder is actually going through the proper motions, unlike the 'baseball baptisms' and the '1.5 hour Japanese conversion plan' of Kikuchi and Groberg.

Kolonko, this is off-topic, but I'm hoping that you can answer a question for me. I have been slowly working on family history. My maternal grandmother and her sisters emigrated from Bialystock (or the surrounding area) in the early 1900s, back when it was a part of Russia. From what I can gather, birth records back in those days were kept by churches or synagogues, not the government. Do you happen to know if that is the case? Any tips for doing records searches in Poland? I do not speak Polish or Russian, so it's been impossible for me to go any further.

Summer, I may know someone who can help you. He's a professional genealogist, so it won't be free however. He specializes in Jewish genealogy, but he also does non-Jewish work, and can read Polish & Russian records (I've seen him do it).

If you're interested, we can exchange email addresses and PM from there.

Thanks for the offer. I think for now I will try to see what I can do on my own. Bialystock was about 2/3 Jewish at the time of my grandmother's emigration, so I think it is possible that there may be some Jewish blood in my family line. She left for America a few months after a major pogrom there.

I'd be interested in the Jewish genealogist contact info. My German Jewish ancestors came from the border where Poland meets Germany, and their Jewish cemetery is still on the Polish side. It's right over the bridge.

They've been there since the 1400's that we know of.

My children's paternal grandmother's parents died in the Warsaw Ghetto. We haven't hardly any info on them, or their daughter who was adopted by Catholics. She was blonde and blue-eyed, so the Germans passed over her when they went house to house hunting Jewish children. The family identified her as their own child.

She may have been one of the children Irene Sendler helped to save - Irene is credited for rescuing app 2,500 children from the ghetto.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2016 04:14PM by Amyjo.

I've sent my email to admin. Either of you can get it from EricK, and we can take it from there.

That's interesting about some of your ancestors coming from a border area where Germany meets Poland. My great grandfather came from Zehden, Brandenburg, Germany on the east side of the Oder River about 3-4 miles inland. In 1945, this town was handed over to Poland and became Cedynia, the westernmost Polish town.

The German name of the town was Meseritz - it was in the province of Posen. It belonged to Germany before WWII but became part of Poland after the war. I never learned how to pronounce its name in Polish.

I wanted very much to visit Meseritz when I was in Germany 10 years ago, but there just wasn't time. You had to take a fairly long bus ride from Berlin, stay overnight, and come back the next day, and from what I heard, Meseritz isn't any sort of tourist Mecca. I just wanted to see it because it was my precious Grandma's birthplace.

The Prophet Joseph Smith clearly taught that missionaries should not proselytize children without the parents' permission. It's in the Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, p 86-87 and History of the Church, 2:262-263

Hi, Kolonko:

Yes, you can do something. There is most likely a law in Poland which covers this situation.

I lived there for 3 years and worked in orphanages in 3 cities. I worked for an NGO for young mothers which also provided proper nutrition guidance and help with education for pregnant women needing more assistance than was available already.

We were prohibited by Polish law from discussing conversion, baptism or change of religion with Polish nationals underage at the time, if they had a declared religion already. While working with these young ladies, teens and children, breaking the law could rise to the level of being a deportable offense for us, as non Polish/EU citizens.

You might want to direct your concerns to the US consular office in the nearest town in Poland (addresses are available at the USA.gov site by searching for the country of Poland). Let them or your gmina/parish priest know that US citizens operating within Poland, are doing this.

Can't say what if anything will happen, but if the parents complain (and they very well might), or the priest does, and if these Mormon kids have the wrong visa type for what they are doing in Poland (ie: their visas are student or tourist visas but they are acting as missionaries instead), or they are breaking other laws there (ie: alienation of affection, contributing to the disaffect ion between the child and its parents, or something similar) things will get taken care of pretty quickly.

They wont be jailed, it won't go that far--but they might be asked to cease all activities that are like this, and may be asked to leave the country. Their leaders might be told in no uncertain terms what is and is not permitted there, an told to follow the rules, or else.

Your post had me salivating for justice!! Great post!

I think it's obnoxious for missionaries to go after a minor without the parents' permission. It should be illegal everywhere.

I agree, I thought it was bad enough that my child got a birthday card from primary when I have never even provided them with his birthdate. Obviously, another family member has. I felt this is an invasion of privacy. I can't even imagine someone trying to baptize my kids without my consent. I would be furious.

But mormons don't necessarily follow this policy. I've met and read about many cases of missionaries and locals baptizing children in spite of parent objections.

Cheryl, I think that the missionaries should have parent permission before they even begin the discussions.

It's pretty shitty that the kid thinks it's cool that the 16-year-old told his parents to "back off." That's very disrespectful.

Doesn't the LDS Church teach that people should OBEY their parents?

Hypocrites!

They should also tell this young person that any church is an abomination if it tries to turn a kid against his/her parents.

I thought it was against church policy to baptize a minor without consent of a parent. Are there laws concerning this is Poland?

Not all missionaries and locals follow the commandments from God, let alone following all inconvenient church handbook regulations.