My extended family and parents are very active, her family are very active muslims...

Let the religious sh!tstorm begin...

Her family wants me to convert to Islam... actually very easy... no baptism etc etc is required...

My family all want her to start attending Mormon church...

We hike, read, study science and have an incredible non religious life together...

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever seen that work out? Anything I should expect?

If you convert to her religion, the only way to deconvert is by death. Wouldn't recommend that way if I were you.

Mazel tov on your engagement!

romeo and juliet

At least both sides being faithful to their beliefs will make for inexpensive toasting at the wedding reception.

I hope the comedy overwhelms the drama as this all plays out!

Congratulations on your engagement.
I would suggest letting both families know that neither of you has any intention to 'convert' to anything, and so they should stop bringing it up and just celebrate your relationship.

As Amyjo said, conversion to Islam might be simple, but it's rife with problems. Same with mormonism.

Be authentic; you're both non-religious, stay that way. Let the families adjust to you rather than the other way around.

Best.

Move far from either one of your families..

If y'all have kids that's when things will get really contentious

The key is to adopt a set of conjoined twins and ensure that one converts to Judaism and the other to Hinduism.

Set up video cameras around the house, record everything that transpires, then sell the whole thing to Hollywood. You'll be raking in money from the syndication fees alone for years.

I'm exMormon, my fiancé is ExMuslim...
Just curious how common this is... Positive experiences?
Her extended family is active (parents, brothers, not so much). My parents are active... My mom is SUPER TBM...

I doubt the scenario that you have indicated is common at all - in fact you may in a very small group. Just guessing.

You are adults. You can do exactly what you want do. I would not join any religion, especially Islam, under false pretenses. There would be expectations by her parents that would cause friction later I am sure. Best to be up front, establish boundaries with both sides, and let the chips fall where they may. Important thing is that you have found the love of your life. Time to live and enjoy each other. Once both sides see how happy you are - will probably leave you alone.

Your situation is not unheard of but very uncommon.

Embrace being two people leading the journey for many to come after you. Just always put each other first no matter what if times get tough. When family gets inappropriate, find the humor in it all. It's always there. Really.

One true story that is funny or not depending on how you look at it. I had a co-worker recently who told me her mother was Catholic and her father was Muslim. They told her that when the time came she should choose her own religion. Yup! You guessed it. She chose Mormonism and was a recent BYU graduate. She was kind of shocked that I was an ex-Mormon RM, but it was all good while she was here. She was very lovely. Her nonMormon upbringing showed through.

I guess the moral of the story is teach your kids how to be a good person without religion. We all know how if we are honest with ourselves. Reciprocity is not rocket science.


Congratulations and all the best to the two of you.

Start scanning real estate listings in Anchorage?

Seems like most of life is groping along a cave with no flashlight looking for any hint of light that might be the opening to freedom...theres really no hard and fast rules for mixed belief marriage...but i have to say youve picked one hell of a cave to grope through...by the time its over im certain a great deal of learning will take place...and hope youll be around in 20 years to answer the queries of the next optomist who truly believes love can conquer all...perhaps it can...but its gonna be messy...EOD had the right answer...hopefully the comedy out shines the drama...my guess is it wont...buuuut...hope springs eternal

the oldest ever fragments of the koran have been dated to over 1360 years old - between 568 & 645, that is before mohammed's time - and they are at the birmingham museum, UK.

Seems mormons aren't the only ones with a mishmash made up religion

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/cadbury/quran-manuscript/index.aspx


I reckon her family would take that as well as our families believing the 'new truths' in the gospel topics essays.

anonuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the oldest ever fragments of the koran have been
> dated to over 1360 years old - between 568 & 645,
> that is before mohammed's time - and they are at
> the birmingham museum, UK.

Mohammed was born around 570CE, and died around 632CE. That aligns just fine with the given range of dates for that manuscript, not "before mohammed's time." The middle of the manuscript's range would be 606CE, which is darn close to the time Islamic tradition says the Koran began to be written down (609CE). Where's the inconsistency?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 05:03PM by ificouldhietokolob.

pretty sure islamic tradition says the koran was written after mohammed died, when 'his' sayings were written down and gathered together. This fragment was written before he died.

The 'official' (from a british imam) explanation due to the discrepancy in dates is because mohammed merely recited earlier religious writings that were later attributed to him, but we know how stories can be retrofitted to suit facts. If you wish to check this detail, you can and you will see that the early manuscript and the 'inconsistency' you cannot see has been accepted as genuine by some high up imams on a council in britain.

The koran was not written by mohammed, which most muslims believe, just as most mormons believe jo smith wrote the book of mormon through 'inspiration from god'. Simple study shows joey boy made it up. simple study shows that the koran is merely a collection of writings attributed as things mohammed once said, but some of it is, obviously, older than mohammed and does not fit the 'official' picture.

anonuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pretty sure islamic tradition says the koran was
> written after mohammed died, when 'his' sayings
> were written down and gathered together. This
> fragment was written before he died.

Nope.

"Muslims believe the Quran was verbally revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (Jibril),[4][5] gradually over a period of approximately 23 years, beginning on 22 December 609 CE, when Muhammad was 40, and concluding in 632, the year of his death.
According to the traditional narrative, several companions of Muhammad served as scribes and were responsible for writing down the revelations. Shortly after Muhammad's death, the Quran was compiled by his companions who wrote down and memorized parts of it."

So it was compiled after he died from material already written.
And since the date range on this manuscript runs to 645CE, 13 years after Mohammed's death, it's well within the range of being written after he died anyway.

> The 'official' (from a british imam) explanation
> due to the discrepancy in dates is because
> mohammed merely recited earlier religious writings
> that were later attributed to him, but we know how
> stories can be retrofitted to suit facts.

Yes, that's entirely plausible.

> If you
> wish to check this detail, you can and you will
> see that the early manuscript and the
> 'inconsistency' you cannot see has been accepted
> as genuine by some high up imams on a council in
> britain.

I'm not sure what you're saying they've "accepted..."?

> The koran was not written by mohammed, which most
> muslims believe, just as most mormons believe jo
> smith wrote the book of mormon through
> 'inspiration from god'. Simple study shows joey
> boy made it up. simple study shows that the koran
> is merely a collection of writings attributed as
> things mohammed once said, but some of it is,
> obviously, older than mohammed and does not fit
> the 'official' picture.

That may well be, however this manuscript's date range fits the traditional timeline just fine. To show it was older than Mohammed, or use it as evidence of Mohammed copying from other sources, its date range would have to *exclude* the time when Mohammed lived, and the time after he lived. It doesn't. The date range given is entirely consistent with the traditional beliefs.

The date range given is an "error bar" -- it's very certain that it was written *sometime* between the lower and upper dates, but there's no way to tell when in that range it was written. And the range is large enough to fully accommodate the traditional beliefs.

you cannot have it revealed to mohammed from god and written from earlier sources - it is either one or the other.

which are you going to choose?

why have you no suggestions for OP only 'corrections' for me - are you trolling me now?

All I was trying to do for OP was provide some information to show islam is as made up as mormonism and that mohammed was as much a prophet as jo smith was, do you have a problem with that, or do you actually consider mohammed a prophet whom his god chose to reveal 'truths' through and form a religion from?

edit: oops, wrong place, directed to opie so should be further down thread.

edit number 2: moved to better placing



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2016 07:30AM by anonuk.

Move far away from both parents. Think about a life with no kids. If you do have kids, hire someone to come in and help for a week when the baby is born. Don't choose one of the moms.

Don't name the kids after any relatives. And don't let either grandparent take the kids to church.

These are things i've observed just from my daughter marrying into a Catholic family. Her and hubby are atheists, but the Catholic grandma has really put the pressure on. It's driving them crazy.

I'm the other grandma, and I stay the heck out of it. My job is to play, with my granddaughter and make lots of stuff out of play doh.

In terms of religion, there are lot of similarities between Islam and Mormonism. I'm not religious and I don't believe so it's up to you. Islam is an all-encompassing way of life just like Mormonism. Islamic judges (qadis) are there to answer you when you want to know if you are doing something "correctly" to live an Islamic way of life. There's no "priesthood" a'la Mormonism but the Umma (community of believers) is very real and close knit.

Once you get into it it's not so easy to get out just like Mormonism -- but I'll say this. The rules are voluntary and it's up to you to follow them. There are lots of lapsed Muslims who don't go to the mosque and eat pork and drink alcohol. Some are conservative, some are liberal just as in Christianity.

It's your choice. Being a Muslim is simple. You only have to do five things to be a good Muslim. It's up to you if you want to be part of the faith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 05:27PM by anybody.

I know an exmo who did that. It worked out. It's been twenty plus years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 05:38PM by bobik43.

Hi D.W.B. You asked and answered your own question. You asked, "Is there anything I should expect"? You had previously stated, "Let the religious shitstorm begin"....oh it will, and you know it. Let's just hope those brothers of hers are not more " active" than you think.

Since you haven't given us much to go on, any advice you get is worthless. If you both are young and like to hike and study science and " whatever" together..... Why don't you just do that for awhile and let everyone get used to the new normal and see how it goes. That's my advice.

You are going to have to be strong in terms of holding your ground. Simply tell the parents how it's going to be, especially when the kids come along. Be prepared to set and enforce boundaries. You can both do this, but you can't be pushovers.

Where does her family live?

I think you should definitely not join her family's religion right now. You have enough to deal with in becoming engaged and adjusting to the new level of commitment in your relationship.

It's natural to want to please a fiancé's family and to want to fit in with them, but this is not the way to do it. Joining their religion would be a major life change--you don't want to make it at this time. Take your time. Maybe it's something you'll want to consider later, maybe not.

I have a nephew who is in a very similar situation (maybe one of your uncles is a lot less Mormon than you think).

As others have already said, make sure it's very clear to both families that neither of you is going to convert. You may still have problems down the road, but it's likely to be easier for you if you don't say or do anything that might instill false hope in either family.

I don't see this as any different than if both families were of the same faith or of some other faith than Mormon and Islam. 'Muslim' is not the religion; The religion is Islam, of which, adherents are known as Muslims.

You state that both you and she are "ex" and enjoy "an incredible, non-religious life together'. If you make it clear to your families that you are not interested in participating in either of their religions, I don't understand where there should be any further issues, regardless of your families' faiths. Best wishes to you.

Please wait...I need to get some popcorn and beer. This has the makings of some good stuff. I would love to be in the room when the Mormons explain Horny Joe and the magic rock to Muslims. The two families should exchange the Koran and BOM.

Seriously, have a great life and make each other happy.

Something to consider...

Young people who've fallen away from their faith tradition are susceptible to turning back at some point, sometimes after marriage, or having kids, etc, and if/when that time comes, they want to to return to the faith tradition they know. Happens with Mormons, Christians, and Muslims too.

I have a little experience with this.

When I was in college, I dated a girl from Iran for about a year. She told me all about the Iranian revolution, because she lived through it. At first girls just had to tie their hair back with a scarf, and that expectation slowly increased (assuming what she told me was true). She was very Americanized and told me she was not religious. She was so "Americanized" that we ended up breaking up because I caught her lying to me multiple time and cheating on me. In the meantime though, we spent a year humping like bunnies. Twenty-five years later I get a friend request on FB from a mutual friend, and I see lots of photos of my ex-girlfriend. She's wearing a headscarf in all of them.

When I graduated from college I moved to Washington DC for work. I met a gorgeous Turkish girl who had just arrived in DC for college. She was short and curvy and we clicked instantly. She had lived in the US since she was 16, though, and was "Americanized" and "non religious." We dated for a couple years, and by the end of her first semester she had moved in with me. We traveled to NYC, Orlando, New Orleans, London, Paris, etc. I had met some of her "uncles" off and on, but at one point they told me that I'd need to convert, or stop seeing her. I ignored them, and about a week later I went out to my car in the morning to discover that my tires had been slashed, every metal panel was dented, and the windshield was smashed. It freaked both of us out. She wanted me to pretend to convert, so we could get married. I didn't want to convert, for real or pretend. It created a wedge between us and things fell quickly apart. Coincidently, I had a job offer from NYC, so I took off.

Fast forward about five years, and I've moved back to DC. At a Friday night happy hour with a group of friends and colleagues. I see a gorgeous, svelte petite woman in a little black dress and skyscraper heels looking at me as she made her way across the bar. To my surprise, she didn't stop until she was embracing me. She looked so different--very slender, waist length hair, etc--that it took me a minute to even realize who she was. From that first embrace, she literally didn't take her hands off me for the rest of the night.

We clicked again immediately, of course, swung by her place where she ran in and threw some things into a suitcase, and she spent the next couple nights at my place. We lived and worked on complete opposite sides of town, though, so on Sunday night I dropped her at her place, and we planned for me to spend the next weekend at her place.

I met her downtown again. We hung out for most of the evening and then headed back to her place pretty late and went straight to bed. I got up to use the bathroom in the morning, and she wasn't in bed. I realized that she was doing prayers in the living room. I didn't say anything, but it sort of weirded me out. A bit later she crawled back into the bed where we'd been humping like bunnies all night long, and we humped like bunnies some more. When the Sun illuminated the room, I realized that there were multiple Korans and stuff on the bookshelves by her desk.

It was too much for me. She credited her faith with helping her transform herself, and didn't I like her "new body?" Yea (but I liked her chubby curvy body too). That I didn't need to "convert," just go along, etc. Sadly, by the end of the day we were broken up again.

I don't mean to brag like I'm Joe Stud. I just want to illustrate how Westernized, and "sophisticated" these women seemed to be, and yet both reverted to their faith tradition. I'd suggest you be absolutely certain that this girl is out and never looking back, and that's almost impossible to ascertain in advance. We never know what the future holds.

IN b 4 ~ Allahu Akbar



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Kaboom..

I agree to expect commencement of said sh!tstorm.

Picture: Two opposing religious factions, both cults.

NFL playoffs, then Superbowl.

Question: Does the football ever win?

Get out of the game. Move. If you value your fiance, protect her, yourself, and any future children from the insanity of both cults.

This lateral sh!tstorm - you and fiance in the middle, it has a high potential to suck the joy out of life.

You've just gotten a promotion to "Co-head of Household," so do your thing. Run your own house (with your fiance). Find a job somewhere else that is "too good to pass up."

You're getting good advice here.

My advice is to talk to a trusted therapist/psychologist before you make any decisions.

As I look back over my life, I wish I'd talked to a therapist before I made some of the decisions I made. It would have saved me much regret.

Wow, much to think about with this situation. How about holding off on the engagement for awhile?

not to frighten you but in europe acid 'honour' attacks are quite prevalent, less prevalent but still happens is the girl being killed for bringing shame and dishonour on the family (immediate and extended) and often the offending boyfriend/husband too. Sometimes the crime is perpetrated by brothers and father, sometimes by uncles and cousins. This is not tied just to devout families either, but all extended families.

Tribal elders hold much sway even in western countries. If tribal elders decree dishonour to have taken place, they will demand revenge to restore family 'honour'. Mothers have been known to take daughters 'back home' for family weddings, only for daughter to disappear off the face of the earth and the mother claiming daughter has married or run away or she turns up dead after having had 'an accident' while staying with relatives in country of origin.

Think mormons under brigham young and you have an idea of modern islam. They pretend to be moderate, but tribal and family alliegances run deep. Disobeying elders could lead to the family being ostracised and their businesses going bust. If avenging is ordered, it will happen; even if you both disappear and they have to spend years to track you down. How much do you really love each other?

If you do marry, you will not just be her knight in shining armour taking her away from her mundane life, you will be her constant protector who must be hyper vigilant all the time. If this is what you are prepared for, I wish you and your love all the very best for your future together, perhaps her family will be an exception - I do hope so.

Decide on your own traditions and don't go to family celebrations or dinners. Make it clear that you won't be participating in either religion, not now or in the future, especially if children become part of the picture.