Yes, and it's been working out really well. My husband became verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive to me when I told him I no longer believed in the church. I also realized that I never really loved him, and although we got along very well we were both under pressure to get married at a young age after barely knowing each other. During the period of time when I was enduring an onslaught of abusive behavior by him, (plus I'd lost my entire social network and family) I wished that I could just die already. Of course I had more than 2 kids and no degree or career that would allow me to leave. So I relied on this forum for some comfort during those dark days. I felt utterly alone and abandoned. Then, someone reached out to me. We started writing, and eventually after some time we became very close and developed a close relationship. I love him very much and he says I'm his soul-mate (I don't say it only because I'm not sure if I believe in soul mates lol). It's been some time, during which he has been working 2 full time jobs and I've been developing a skill to give myself a good career. Soon we will have the finances to be able to untangle ourselves, as smoothly as possible for the sake of kids involved. I've also previously given my husband many chances to show me he can treat me well, but he can't get over the fact that I have my own opinions that deserve respect. I'm so thankful that the universe gave me such a sweet and lovely man, who saw through my anger, bitterness and resentment towards him as I was going through the trauma of abuse, and helped bring my broken sense of self worth from almost nothing to where it is today. Looking back, I'm amazed by how far I've come in every way, and I'm so much looking forward to the future and a beautiful happy life together.

Apostate love, it's a beautiful thing.

I'm so very happy for you(both). Do you plan a 'big reveal' to us as to who the other person is, at some point? "Enquiring minds want to know" :) I'm envious, to be real honest ;)

Haha, dodo, "apostate love". Cute :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 03:47PM by cinda.

Maybe, although I want to remain anonymous so I'll probably just give an update.

What about the children?

I don't find your story at all "beautiful. An affair is a selfish act. I was the wife of someone who had an affair. He didn't care about our children. Is it too late to beg you to be a mature grownup, and get a divorced first? Don't give ex-Mormons a bad reputation. Be an example to your children, of someone with forbearance, real love, and concern for others. How will your parents and the rest of your family respond to your behavior? Think of others. Most people will accept a new love and a new spouse much more enthusiastically, if you don't break the rules of society.

You can't blame the Mormon cult or RFM for your own lack of morals.

Instead of finding your own way, and moving forward independently, you are leaning back on someone else. You need time to be alone, to develop maturity and wisdom.

My children are a major reason for my decision. Right now they have a terrible example of how a couple should function. This is a toxic, broken irreparably damaged relationship. I am breaking a cycle of abuse, which started with my own mother and my parent's example of a loveless marriage. No one knows about it yet, and they won't until it's the right time.


I don't need to justify anything that I do to anybody, but I do wish to help break the stigma of an affair, which is that the victim of an affair is not always the victim of a marriage, as one noted therapist said.

You should be a good Mormon about the whole thing. Marry him before you divorce your first husband and become your new husbands second wife. After all What Would Joseph Do?

The ability to earn your own good living gives you options. I think that every woman should have the education, training, and skills to earn a living no matter what she decides to do with her life. My parents strongly drove this point home as I was growing up. They never wanted me to feel trapped or bereft. I'm so grateful that they sent me to college. I don't think they ever would have expected that I would spend my whole life working, but their care and concern did ensure that I could earn my livelihood.

Good luck to you moving forward.

As a child of a selfish parent who led on their spouse while finding "true happiness" with someone else, I'm not impressed with your naivete.

It's probably not going to work out the way you think it will.

I'd much rather my selfish parent had come clean about their dissatisfaction rather than faking it for so long the way you are.

Listen to your own words: you're leading on your husband until you can support yourself financially.

How is that different than stealing? Or prostitution?

I hope you appreciate that not everybody on this site is going to be as excited about your situation as if they're watching a soap opera.

Real people are involved here. Real people's lives will change abruptly and not for the better.

Anyway, your mileage may vary!

Congratulations! I am so happy for you.

Everyone deserves happiness.
You only live once.I hope everything works out well for you both.


Please keep yourself safe from your violent spouse.

Cheaters always cheat. Good luck getting someone that you care about to totally trust you. Your habits are known.

Apost-mate.com™

A custom app where the exmo can swipe the seer stone right or left....

Copyright, 2017, Chicken N. Backs, Inc.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

OP, I completely empathize with your choices. There is nothing to be gained by raising your children in abuse and dysfunction. They grow up to repeat the patterns. I know this from sad experience.

Maybe there are some ex-mos on this forum who still don't understand how the intensity of abuse escalates by an already abusive spouse when an unbelieving partner leaves the church.

It's hell.

And it's no place for children.

Good luck to you OP - don't let the haters get you down! Live your life and be happy!!

;o)

;o)

My sister-in-law's father left her mother for another woman he was cheating on from church. Until the "other" woman left him for another man.

Maybe it will work out. Maybe it won't.

I don't trust a cheating heart. They usually turn on each other in the end.

Your kids should come first. The marital discord should be dealt with before jumping from the frying pan into the flames.

Good luck!

I dont trust someone who hides affairs.

Means they are sneaky and lack integrity.

Hoping your children are scarred in an extra layer of dysfunction. Yea, you are in a dysfunctional marriage. And now you are in a dysfunctional affair.

The biggest losers are always, always the kids

I'm actually quite proud of myself because the people who judge and lack empathy and an unwillingness to understand human nature, don't bother me. A few weeks ago my husband told me I make him want to hang himself, all because I asked for him to change my phone status so that I could make needed account changes on my own instead of having to go through him. He also said I treat him inhumanely, that he is a slave, that dogs get better treatment than him, and that I am going to make other people want to kill themselves. Meanwhile, my sweet partner loves me for who I am, respects my opinions, and wants me to be happy.

It is widely known that the time right after a separation from an abusive man is the most dangerous for a woman, and is the most common time for the woman to be assaulted or killed. For that reason, abused women are strongly encouraged to have an "escape" plan, and to have everything ready like clothes, important documents, etc in case she needs to flee the house. I am going to have to have such a plan for my exit, and we will soon enter the time period for coming up with this plan.

Part of my writing this is to create awareness for abused and at risk women, and my partner is part of my story.

OP: You are absolutely right, absolutely correct about being in heightened danger at the time you leave an abusive spouse. Secrecy is of primary concern, and that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "sneakiness" of an affair. The language your husband is using about "hanging himself" and causing others to "kill themselves" is alarming...not a far leap for you to fear for yours and your children's physical safety.

My already shaky/abusive marriage exploded exponentially when I left the church. I developed my exit plan and spent a year hiding thousands of dollars, gathering documents, consulting with an attorney, seeing a therapist, and seeking affordable housing. I stockpiled all of the household items, food, clothing and furniture that I could in the corner of the garage and escaped in a U-Haul with my small son one afternoon.

OP, anyone judging you here does not "get" the danger you are in. And, I admit it, I had a long-term ex-mo friend from this board help me through the exit from my marriage as well. I am not ashamed of that emotional affair. Without his help and steady dose of reality-checking and support, I literally might not still be alive today.

Be proud of the life and the future you are building for yourself and your children. Again, NO JUDGMENT HERE. Best of luck.

;o)

shannon Wrote:

> I stockpiled all of the
> household items, food, clothing and furniture that
> I could in the corner of the garage and escaped in
> a U-Haul with my small son one afternoon.

A girl like you once penned a song about such a brave leap.

You likely know the thing, but here goes Nanci again, away from Unhappy Valley in her Ford Econoline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OBSo3G8LCg

Love it!

;o)

What you do as an adult is your business- absolutely no judgement.

It isn't only about you. Who has the potential to be impacted? Don't hurt his family.

If you are unhappy, I truly hope you can get out on your own. Running to another man is not probably the answer. Solve your problems if you can by being independent and happy.

I hope you get to spend time with soul mates and all, but sometimes you have to consider innocent people who could be impacted- his family. Don't destroy his world if you really love him.

Time may temper your passion. Sometimes there is no happy ending. Sometimes there is! Will you either regret hurting someone or will you regret not being able to follow your heart? Don't be selfish if it hurts others. Best of luck.

Dagny,

I thought about your post all night. I didn't read the OP's original post the way you did - she didn't clearly identify the other man as married. I re-read it and saw the subtleties you did...the part where they "untangle" themselves as smoothly as possible for the sake of the kids involved.

It's there. I see it now. Puts a new spin on the story. I'd like to know more about the betrayed wife. Is she a TBM? Is she shoving her apostate husband out the door, with ultimatums and fits about breaking up her eternal family? Or is she a clueless Molly who got kicked in the stomach when her husband left the church...and now she's about to get a second kick when the husband she loves breaks up the remnants of her earthly family?

Dunno. Interesting to ponder. I temper my previous remarks without further information from the OP. Kids. Yeah. Breaking up families. That's scary stuff.

;o)

Victims abound.

I won't lecture you because I have no standing, having made mistakes myself. I will however say that being hurt does not give you license to hurt. Karma and all that.

I hope the best for you.

Karma is my husband telling me he will be happy see me on the street with nothing and taking custody of the kids away from me. Karma is kidnapping the kids and abandoning me at the house, leaving me stranded. Karma is my neighbor having to bring me food so I could eat. Karma is feeling like I was going crazy because of all the gaslighting. Karma is having massive panic attacks because I didn't know when I'd be able to see my kids again. Karma is being told no other man would want me, and me believing it. Karma is being afraid of him, allowing him to use and disrespect my body and soul. Karma is feeling like I was David and he Goliath, with all his connections and wealthy and influential TBM family members, while my family has very little means, and not enough to counter a six figure custody battle. Karma is my therapist telling me I married my mother, since she was also abusive towards me. Karma is unexpectedly finding the man of my dreams. I have been unhappy most of my life and I'm not going to let go of him out of social protocol.

Don't tell me what karma is. It is mine.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what I am saying. That could be my fault.

You should not harm someone because they have harmed you.

When I say karma what I mean is not what you have described. You have described feelings of betrayal. Actions taken to distance you from your children. Your feelings of insignificance. It sounds really awful and I really do wish the best for you. No one should be treated that way.

But you are treating him that way. You are betraying him. You are planning on distancing him from his children. You are surreptitiously making him insignificant by taking this lover.

When I say karma, I mean that you aught not act in a manner that will cause more harm to come to you.


I cheated on my wife, it was a horrible mistake. It wasn't even with my soul mate, just someone who I became very familiar with. It isn't the reason my marriage failed. And I believe that my wife (ex) are both in better places because of our divorce. But the cheating, that should have never happened, it was very emotionally damaging to me. The heartache that I suffered because of my mistake was all my fault.

Good luck, I hope you find happiness.

Good for you! Ignore the uninformed here, proceed with your life and find happiness! Well done!

Any time a woman claims that her husband or boyfriend is abusive, I quickly get suspicious. Unless he is physically assaulting you or physically intimadating you with threats of violence, it's a mutually dysfunctional relationship, not just abuse from him. If the man does assault or threaten a woman with violence, he violates a sacred obligation of human behavior. A man should never harm or threaten a woman with violence. There should never be any harm or threats at all. But if they're going to fight, both of them should be on equal ground.

In the same way that men tend to be physically larger and physically stronger than women, generally speaking most men seem to be equally at a disadvantage when it comes to emotions and love relationships with women if the woman chooses to harm the man emotionally. What the OP is doing is absolutely terrible. She can say that she is doing it for the kids or that it's okay to use him, knowing that she doesn't love him or claiming that he doesn't love her. But she is a terrible person for faking a relationship and exploiting him in a way where he can't protect himself. It's no different than him if he physically assaulted her. No one is as helpless as she claims to be. She is the perfect victem in her own mind. If he is really abusive, move to a woman's shelter... like tonight. Fight back, tell yourself that you'll make things work out, one way or another.... unless you're too much of a princess that believes you shouldn't be burdened with such things as money and a court battle because your self esteem is too low to really contribute much to your family at all anyway. If you really want to be his equal, then do what he should do when the family needs to eat, pay bills, etc... man-up. There is no excuse for failure. If you don't have any interest in taking that level of ownership yourself, then treat him like a man and don't take any crap from him either. The courts will not let his family money destroy you and take away your kids if you are a good mother. I know because I am from a poor family and my sister held her own against her ex's wealthy family and was treated fairly by the courts. This sneaking around and being the victem crap is so dysfunctional and so abusive to him.

Her husband has a right to know how she feels, no matter how bad it is. He needs to know about the affair so he can start working on his escape plan too. She should know that the affair won't last either. If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you. How far can either of these so-called soul mates ever trust eachother?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 10:05PM by azsteve.

azsteve, I know you from over 3 years ago, and your comments (at least the ones I've seen) have always been caustic and ignorant.

If my husband were a normal man, first of all he wouldn't have abused me like he did and this situation would not be happening.

He does not have the right to know about my other relationship at the moment because I have a right to stay safe physically. He has damaged and broken things near me and threatened to leave me penniless, among many other things, all of which officially is domestic abuse.

May I suggest that you get in touch with a good attorney?

You are not without options financially and if he has been supporting you than you have every right to divorce him and have him continue to support you. The courts are very clear on alimony.

The police and the courts will keep you safe physically. I don't judge the OP for any issues of sex outside of marriage or wanting to get away from an abusive relationship. But you have to be honest with the people in your life. Every day you choose to stay with your husband if he really is abusive, you give him permission to abuse you.

Tell him the full truth right away. Don't let him intimidate you. You have more power over him than he has over you. You are likely to get the house and the kids while he pays you alimony and child support if he is the person you say he is. If he breaks things, you can have him arrested within minutes. The judge will immediately issue a temporary restraining order to keep him away from the house until the courts can make a more permanent decision that will keep you safe and the kids provided for.

But no.... you're a victem. That gives you permission to lie and cheat yourself (Really?). You do not have a right to keep your relationship with your lover private from your husband. I don't care if you call me toxic. My posts all strive to keep people honest. If that is toxic, than so be it. I am honest with my world and with myself. The church teaches people to lie and sneak around. No one on this board should support that.

You mention "... if he were a normal man...". No matter how bad he is... let's assume that he really is a bad guy here..., your moral compass should not be based on what he does. Take care of business first. Find love later. Otherwise you can expect to find yourself in an endless loop of different lovers, all of which have abused you (whether real or imagined abuse), and all of which you have lied to about your other lovers. That's no way to live.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 10:45PM by azsteve.

Caustic, unfiltered truth is not always the way to go. I can't stand people who always insist that you aren't an authentic or ethical or good person because one doesnt tell ones observation of events through the lens that someone else sees those events.

That's just a general comment. I disagree with you, Steve. Not necessarily about the situation, just about the comment about honesty. Sometimes, what you say and what you do has to be assessed differently in different situations.

Also, your comments about getting incredibly suspicious whenever a woman reports abuse from a boyfriend or a husband were complete horseshit and absolute nonsense. It is rare to get false reports of rape or abuse when they are reported to the police. I don't know about cavalier, offhanded reports of abuse that don't make their way to getting reported to the police, but you sound as though you are very bitter about something that has happened to you in the past. I know of no other reason why you would make that kind of comment. That or you're just a sexist asshole who assumes the worst about women and thinks men are above reproach.

http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2017 08:21AM by midwestanon.

"The police and the courts will keep you safe physically."

I've heard and read too many stories if that not happening. Either the police don't take the woman seriously, or her husband is able to get around them, and harm or kill her anyway.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The police and the courts will keep you safe
> physically.

Wow. This is pure fantasy. The courts have a very poor record of "protective" orders being able to stop a spouse from killing the other spouse. Ask any of thousands of the dead spouses if this is true.



I don't judge the OP for any issues of
> sex outside of marriage or wanting to get away
> from an abusive relationship. But you have to be
> honest with the people in your life. Every day you
> choose to stay with your husband if he really is
> abusive, you give him permission to abuse you.


OMG. You are so uninformed. You approach this from a position of rational behavior. You have no idea what you are writing about. You have never been physically abused as the physically weaker party? Trapped as a victim? Imprisoned against your will by a more powerful person? Mormonism teaches us that we do what is neccessary to survive. How did you survive? Did you comply with the jailer until you THOUGHT your way free, or did you go physically toe-to-toe with him?



>
> Tell him the full truth right away. Don't let him
> intimidate you. You have more power over him than
> he has over you.


This is a perfect way for an abused wife to get killed, but you think her "right" to speak the truth will "force" him not find and beat the shit out of her?


You are likely to get the house
> and the kids while he pays you alimony and child
> support if he is the person you say he is. If he
> breaks things, you can have him arrested within
> minutes.

LMAO. You must not read much news. You are also assuming that she will have the time to dial 911, and wait for the police to arrive. Or that she will never have to leave the house, or maybe her windows are not made of glass, or that he would not harm the children to hurt her.


The judge will immediately issue a
> temporary restraining order to keep him away from
> the house until the courts can make a more
> permanent decision that will keep you safe and the
> kids provided for.


...because he has proven he respects the sanctity of his vows in battering his wife? Kids are always aware and usually witness, often also abused? Or maybe you think he will obey court orders because he has already shown so much respect for our laws?



> But no.... you're a victem. That gives you
> permission to lie and cheat yourself (Really?).
> You do not have a right to keep your relationship
> with your lover private from your husband. I don't
> care if you call me toxic.


You are being not only toxic, but offering dangerous advice to a survivor, or someone who is in the process of freeing herself from abuse.



My posts all strive to
> keep people honest. If that is toxic, than so be
> it. I am honest with my world and with myself. The
> church teaches people to lie and sneak around. No
> one on this board should support that.


You write from a position of physical security. Why not walk into a prison full of spouse killers, and tell them that it wasn't their fault that they murdered? Spend a little time on "the yard," where you won't be the largest, strongest person with an opinion. Better yet, see how killers respect "your opinion" in the showers. See if you can get "the truth" of their crimes out of them. Her husband has already broken laws, likely on multiple occasions. I hope you are not on his jury, because she "chose" to be abused.


>
> You mention "... if he were a normal man...". No
> matter how bad he is... let's assume that he
> really is a bad guy here..., your moral compass
> should not be based on what he does. Take care of
> business first.


That is exactly what she is doing. The first time he struck her, he sacrificed his "husband" card, broke his vows, became unfaithful, broke fidelity.


You are uninformed and are being willfully ignorant of the conditions in a physically abusive domestic environment. You could read up on the subject, but no, you want to project YOUR victimization onto her abusive husband. You *really* have no idea how dangerous your suggestions are. Did you completely miss the "physical abuse" in the OP? Your idealized "truth conversation" that you insist that she have with her abuser would likely result in her being maimed or killed. It also puts the kids at great risk.


Find love later. Otherwise you can
> expect to find yourself in an endless loop of
> different lovers, all of which have abused you
> (whether real or imagined abuse), and all of which
> you have lied to about your other lovers. That's
> no way to live.



Look. I understand why you are hypersensitive to cheating and lying spouses, but you are approaching this "cheat" as a man who would never physically harm a woman. Think criminal behavior. What happened to you was criminal. What the OP is going through is criminal, but you don't seem to realize that her fighting this battle in the same forthright manner that you fought yours could get her and her kids killed.

The police arrive after the crime is committed. They don't - can't - stand guard to prevent it. Escaping an abusive spouse is escaping the abuser's prison. It takes cunning, planning and bravery.

You are being abusive to a survivor of domestic abuse, and I hope you are able to objectify her (and your) different situations, because I LOVE your honesty. I love the way you can deconstruct a web. This one? You are way off the mark.

IMHO, the OP is using the strength of the lover in a selfish manner(1) to gain her freedom. Her kids will escape an abusive household, but what of his? They may have jumped the gun a bit on the sex, and it's my bet that they might privately agree. However, there has been many an *emotionally and financially* (even some physically) abused husband threads on this board, and victims of abuse deserve to judge and make for themselves a path to recovery. Emotional, and even physical support, can be required to regain strength and resorces, long shredded by the abuser.


(1) The lover, and his family, can become targets of a physically abusive spouse. OP needs to consider this. No such thing as "secret" in this day and age.

My divorce had nothing to do with religion.

However, it had everything to do with years of mental, emotional, and physical abuse.He'd had several affairs in the 10 years we were married. He was a chronic liar. He made out life pure hell.

I wasn't looking for anyone to rescue me. I was in the middle of my divorce when an angel appeared in my life. He helped me get a better attorney, him and his friends helped me move in with him. He made sure I was safe every step of the way. He took on the responsibility of me and my kids like it was just the thing to do. Yes, he rescued me from a very bad situation when I had nobody else to help me.

Eventually we got married. He made sure I got a college degree. He didn't want me to ever be in a situation like that again.He helped me, loved me, supported me, and never stopped.

We've been married for several decades now. People may say I had an affair. It doesn't matter to me what anyone thought. It was MY life, not theirs. Our relationship was about much much more than sex. I could have gotten sex anywhere. It's not a difficult thing to get when you're young and pretty. Love,compassion, loyalty, and going all out to help me and my kids escape the hell we were trapped in is not so easy to come by.

I hope your situation turns out as good as mine did.

If the OP had not mentioned that she was having an affair, undoubtedly she would get a lot of support from RfMers because of being abused by her partner, as many posters here have been in her shoes exactly.

Some people have expressed doubt about the advisability of having an affairs or whether it will help this poster in the future. Too, both parties would hopefully consider their kids above all. Others offer judgement (saying it's "immoral") which is not usually our go-to response here on RfM ("recovery" indicates that we are hopefully more on the "therapeutic" side, or at least non-judgemental - a place where people can tell their stories and say how they feel, not where others get to stomp on their heads because they make choices we wouldn't, or think we wouldn't. However, are we in the same set of circumstances? Do we really know what we'd do? Never say "never", say I).

I'm not saying we should only respond if we're going to agree 100% with an OP's position. However, there's a way to say things that is more helpful and less judgemental.

Isn't the judgement we feel from Mormons and the Mormon church one of the major things about Mormonism we really really don't like or agree with? So, can we do less of it ourselves in our interactions with everyone else, no matter what their situation is?

In particular, regarding this OP, the advice to people who are living in abusive situations is very much to have a plan to get out and survive. Saving money the abusive partner doesn't know about, having access to a phone s/he can't take away or monitor, knowing about community resources to approach for assistance, making decisions about how to protect the kids, formulating and maintaining outside contacts, and many other suggestions are included in having a workable plan that will help one out of an untenable situation and ensure survival, not only literally but once they are out. Being afraid to leave for lack of money or contacts or a place to stay are primary reasons that victims of abusers choose to stay, perhaps at risk of their very lives.

If you have not been in an abusive relationship, one in which the other person has all or most of the power and misuses it, and/or have not had occasion to learn about the dynamics of such and how to end it (having a plan to get out is one of the first and most vital recommendations) maybe you could find out about these things before dispensing judgements that are exceptionally unhelpful to someone in such a situation.

I'm not saying I think having affairs is a positive choice (if you're only looking at in in a clinical way). In a perfect world that wouldn't happen. I'm not even addressing that part. Mostly I wanted to say that a person who is working on a plan to leave should be encouraged to move ahead with that.

I hope that our comments can be helpful to the person who started this thread and to the many thousands who read this board, some of whom may be in an abusive relationship themselves. Research having a plan. Formulate a plan. Safeguard yourself and your children. Look up local community resources. Reach out to them for help. Get out.

Good luck to all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 10:06PM by Nightingale.

^^^ ^^^ ^^^

Really excellent post, Nightingale!!!

Thanks, Tevai. I am afraid I sound judgemental myself (ironic, ain't it) but I couldn't think how else to state my reaction to some of the replies on this thread.

I wouldn't want to discourage the woman who started this thread from continuing to express herself to RfM posters and I especially want to encourage her to continue with her plan to escape.

True enough that people without this type of experience may have a hard time understanding it, or people's choices.

As a nurse and in volunteer work I used to do, I have encountered women who suffered abuse at their partners' hands. I was inexperienced with this myself and was shocked at what goes on in people's lives (that I didn't know about firsthand before). Especially difficult to comprehend, and accept, are the choices some women make to stay with their abusive partners. I have seen well educated women, successful in their careers, sitting in front of me with black eyes, broken noses, scars from previous assaults, fractured ribs and bones. Not too many things so sad as a woman with a swollen, shiny, painful black eye or still bleeding nose telling me why she *shouldn't* leave her abuser. Or a professional woman saying she would leave but "I am dead" (and the thread was very real). (The reason I say "well educated" is that it may seem logical or obvious that the first time a partner is abusive a person whould leave. But logic and being obvious don't necessarily enter into this. And less well educated women may have (or feel they have) even fewer choices or information).

The dynamics are complex. The stories abound. Women (and men) need education, support and assistance in these circumstances.

It's not too helpful to wrangle with them about small details or to state your opinion about their accuracy or the choices being made. Encourage them to at least start a plan to change things, better yet to take an opportunity to get out.

Not that I'm an expert of any kind.

I'd encourage women who are being abused to find the number of a women's shelter in their area or an abuse hotline, or any other resource that can help both in a crisis and longer term. There is a lot of help and understanding out there. Go for it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 10:25PM by Nightingale.

Allow me to accept your gentle rebuke.

Hi Jacob: I wasn't necessarily thinking of your comments when I wrote my reply. (However, now that you popped up, I did go back and re-read you). I did wince a bit at a few remarks you wrote, but that is just my opinion, and it doesn't necessarily mean I am right.

I appreciate you trying to explain your remarks about karma, etc. I don't disagree with that principle - what goes around comes around, and all that. I have seen that many times. (Unfortunately, sometimes what comes around isn't anything we have "asked for" but stuff happens, as we all know).

Jacob, I am sorry for the pain you have obviously suffered too. For the actions you regret, at least it sounds as if you learned from that, and you're willing to acknowledge responsibility, always a positive. I hope things are on a more even keel for you. You don't have to beat yourself up forever, you know, for past mistakes or paths you wish you'd bypassed. Life is a learning experience, so they say.

For me too. I just try not to end up feeling regret, too much, about anything I can prevent, so that governs my choices quite a bit. There's plenty of regret waiting to haunt us without it being self-imposed, I have found.

Pretty much though, Jacob, I wasn't directing my remarks at you. I appreciate your comment though. (And it's not up to me to rebuke you - a good 'religious' type word that, isn't it). You were trying to engage with the OP and actually have a conversation. That's a lot different than just calling her out and telling her off.

So. Carry on. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 10:43PM by Nightingale.

I agree with Nightingale. Normally I'm not a fan of affairs any more than anyone else, but in reality the affair is the smallest part of the OP's post. The major part is that she is being treated abusively by her spouse and needs to get out.

My advice would be to get out of the marriage sooner rather than later. And to consult a divorce attorney ASAP and lay the whole situation out. I would see if you can get a free initial consult from the three best attorneys in town. Then pick.

My marriage is no picnic. I'm married to a spouse with bi-polar. The divorce rate for bi-polar people is over 90%. To say we have ups and downs is an understatement.

But there are several factors that prevent me from cheating. None of them are really religiously based.

First, I would have to come home and realize I've committed a betrayal.

Second, I would be risking my kids' home life and stability for my own selfish gratification.

Third if I did cheat and establish a relationship, how could I ever expect to trust that new partner? How could I trust myself with anyone else down the road.

Things the last couple months have been relatively good. But things could go downhill again and get really bad. They might even get so bad that we can't stay married, because of the effect on me and my kids. But until that point I have to honor what I've committed to.

There are a thousand things that should be better in my marriage. It's not all her fault either. But that's no excuse to cheat on either of our parts. And I can't get in the OP's head, but part of me wonders if this post was a justification and rationalization. It comes across as such to me.

HOW COULD YOU EXPECT THE PERSON WHO YOU CHEATED WITH NOT TO THINK YOU MIGHT BE CHEATER. INTERESTING POST YOU MADE NOT MANY WOULD SHARE INFADELITY. pRETTY COOL I GUESS

josephsmithseer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOW COULD YOU EXPECT THE PERSON WHO YOU CHEATED
> WITH NOT TO THINK YOU MIGHT BE CHEATER.
> INTERESTING POST YOU MADE NOT MANY WOULD SHARE
> INFADELITY. pRETTY COOL I GUESS

Please do not type in all capital letters. Thank you.

"And I can't get in the OP's head, but part of me wonders if this post was a justification and rationalization. It comes across as such to me."

This was pretty much how it came across to me too. Thanks for putting that into words.

One thing I've noticed reading this board is this: it is never a guy who admits to having an affair with a woman on this board. Wonder why men are more averse to this than the women are?

I still find it foolish, especially with children involved. Her husband can sense she is cheating. Studies have shown that spouses know instinctively when the other is having an affair. It is still wrong, no matter how she dices it. And it makes for an unhealthy and unhappy homelife - if it was bad before, it's only going to get worse. That's the end result in a marriage that's gone sour.

There is no love left, in other words. OP would be doing herself and her children a great kindness to get out with her dignity still intact. It's hard to be objective when you're in the middle of an affair. But objectivity is what she needs, to be level headed, if she wants to find her way out of the labyrinth she has made for herself. Maybe the affair isn't the *mistake.* Okay, got it. So then the marriage is. Something has to give. Op is living between two worlds. They're going to collide if she doesn't get out of one of them before it's too late to save herself.

Suckers. People post things that are dangerous to say in real life cause they need to try out the things they eventually want to say. It fills a validation need also.

Abuse is a real thing. I know of women who've been beaten, drugged and raped by their husbands. Multiple times. Where do you draw the line? But I'll ignore that part of the equation.

When I left my wife for a childhood sweetheart, my kids hated it. Kids are kind of funny about change. It's hard on them. My dad left my mom. I didn't like that one bit. He tried talking me out of Mormonism but I wasn't having it. Mom was a TBM. But in hindsight, I'm glad he left. I wish I'd have questioned Mormonism. My kids got over me leaving too (they were pretty much out of the house by then anyway).

You're going to get some criticism about shaking your kids' faith in the adult world, but that pales in comparison to a collapsing shelf. You're cleaning up a huge mess caused by the psychology of Mormonism. People grow, that's life. If they grow in different directions or one refuses to grow, that's life too.

I think your kids will be better off because of this. They won't have their emotional development stunted by a looney tunes cult. Since raising them is your job, I think you did the right thing.

I often compare to the classic movies where a bunch of bad guys get together to rob a bank or a train. Sure enough, once they get the money what typically happens is that these bad guys end up killing eachother off, trying to steal then other guys share. There are always excuses.

But the excuse typically involves who the victem is, nothing about who the perpetraitor is. So if you can demonize someone, apparently it's okay to treat them badly yourself because of who they are. So it's okay to kill a murderer, okay to steal from a thief, okay to abuse an abuser. What kind of a person does that make you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 11:36PM by azsteve.

In the beginning of this, I was very much confused about what was going on. I was doing a lot of redirecting of anger towards him because of the abuse I was receiving from my husband. I didn't trust him and I resented having to be dependent on another person yet again, story of my life. I also didn't think I deserved his attention, because of all the years of being put down by my husnand. It gets to you eventually, and I no longer had the spirit I once had. He had broken it our first year we were married. Therapy helped me sort out my feelings and organize my thoughts. My therapist told me I was seeing things in black and white terms, like how I was taught in the church. Something is either good or bad. Right or wrong. Evil or holy. When I started seeing things as they were, which is a human experience, human nature, that was an enlightenment for me. Then I could also see why things happened the way they did. It doesn’t necessarily make anything right or wrong, but rather explains things and puts them in context. I never thought I would engage in an affair and I can't say if it's right or wrong, but I know why I decided to do the things that I did. I wasn't looking for a man. He just came to me. And he is helping me to move on with my life. I often think of my past Mormon self as a past life, as if I had died. And I did die. That self is gone and I'm going forward in life with my new self, which I am still getting to know. At the end of the day, everybody just wants to be happy, and if we're not, we either do nothing and live with it, or we do something to make it happen. Some may say it's unfair to my husband, to keep him in the dark. I tell you, when you've been in an unbalanced relationship, where you have very little power and the other person controls your life, you need to do something to balance it out for your own good. I'm not surprised by unsupportive, judgemental and ignorant comments, I was expecting them. But my skin has toughened up from a few years ago. I've put in the work to get myself independent, with or without a man. I am so close to the finish! But now I have to take it up a knotch as I start to plan and navigate my exit, with the help from my partner, who at this point I've known for a few years already.. he's not going anywhere lol. And when the dust settles, we will send in our resignation letters together :-)

Good for you, Anon123. I'm pretty sure I've figured out who you are from previous posts, so be very careful that others don't know you're posting here.

I remember all that you went through, and I hope there's a happy resolution in the end with regards to your children.

Emotional abuse takes a huge toll. I'm glad you're doing better and have become a stronger person.

TG

As always, Nightingale does an excellent job! Thanks for your input.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2017 07:42AM by cl2.

I do have an attorney I've been working with for a while. He has advised me to wait until my career is more developed because there is substantial debt. Which by the way, my husband admitted is so that I have no choice but to stay with him.

The situation is not an emergency at the moment but it can change at any time, for example if he tries to do anything with me. I've told him if he ever repeats what he did to me I will call the police.

Also, I want to be ready for when I make my move. He talks about suicide and says he will refuse to pay me any money so that I can live like a queen and he in the street, he'd just quit working before that happens. That might just be hot air but I need to be prepared financially just in case. Yes he basically said he'd rather not support his kids just to spite me. I

What a terrible situation. I'm glad that you've lawyered up.

Some people here have been less supportive than expected maybe....

My thoughts on this....

*EVERYONE*...deserves and wants love and affection.
If they can't get this in their marriage, they will get it elsewhere.
Of course you should try and fix things w/your spouse first, but many have tried and failed.


My question---did you meet at one of those Ex-mo gatherings...and swiped left? (metaphorically..)

Good luck

I presume that when you married this man you made some kind of vow of fidelity to him? And that your lover did the same with his wife?

The kid's roles and your perception of danger are insignificant and ultimately an excuse.

The minimum level of decency here would demand that you inform your husband that you are having an affair with someone else and he should also tell his wife.

To do less is kind of despicable. Doesn't mean you're despicable as our worth is not measured by one action. But to continue on like this is pretty low.

I feel very badly for what you have gone through. I think I can understand the absolute emotional need to accept help and love from someone offering it. Maybe like crossing the desert, and being offered water when you collapse.

I'm not sure how divorce works, but I fear you are shooting yourself in the foot by having an affair. I don't think a judge would have much sympathy, and it could effect the outcome of child custody. I would not confess to anyone about the affair for that reason. I recommend cutting it off, and possibly resuming after the divorce.

I fear the same thing. It's possible that an affair could come back to bite you in a divorce. Hopefully the OP's lawyer has given her some advice in that regard. And if the lawyer doesn't know about it, it's time.

A divorce is about dividing assets and arranging custody of children. An affair does not impact custody at all, even though either party would want it to. The only way it would hurt is if the spouse were having multiple partners and it affected quality of parenting. Courts and judges know that people are humans and things happen, and that an affair has to do with the disintegration of the marriage.

My partner is not going to be known until after the proceedings are done, and probably not for a while anyway to allow for some time to settle.

A judge will not bat an eye at accusations of infidelity as a means to reduce custody, as it has nothing to do with fitness as a parent. A judge will however, not look very kindly at my husband's history of parental kidnapping, which shows a lack of willingness to share parenting so if anything, he has shot himself in the foot by keeping them away from me.

Your husband has done horrible things, and I'm sure you are documenting it as much as possible.

As for the judge sympathizing with your affair, that may depend on the judge.

I hope that everything goes in your favor, best of luck to you! Please let us know how it turns out for you.

A123-

Here's the deal. Everything of worth boils down to love. In Christianity there are the two 'commandments.' There are similar thoughts in the Tao, Baghavid Gita, Zoroastrianism and even the Koran. But there is something fundamental to all of them. It's honor. Honor keeps you true to yourself.

Falling in love with an honorable man is priceless. Happy for you. For someone who has been cheated on, I would rather she had just told me of her unhappiness and given us a peaceful way out before finding another man. There is an indescribable pain and sence of betrayal finding your spouse has set up an escape route behind your back.

Even if your man is abusive, he still gives something of himself to you. When he finds out that what he was giving you has been overlayed by cheating, it may kill him. There is nothing worse to any of us than to experience falseness in our love.

In the end, it will be painful for everyone when you leave. It will be less so if you have honor now. Have honor. Tell him you plan to leave. Trust me. Honor matters.

Be well. I love you, my friend...

Thank you for your thoughts. He will not find out, I've made sure of that. My husband has himself not acted honorably by being willing to lie to take my kids away from me, stemming from me deciding to leave the church. He has major advantages over me. I have to do what I can to survive, I have little resources and support, but yet managed to make myself a career with kids and no college degree - a major triumph for me! I will not gloat about my relationship to him because I still care about him as a person. The divorce will happen, not too dramatically I hope, and then at some point in the future I will introduce my partner into the picture.

I will fill you in on my partner's spouse - she routinely screams at him for hours at a time with foul, non-lds-approved language (which I've listened to), keeps a stun gun, trashes his work equipment, purposely keeps him up by flicking his lights on and off, gets their kids to participate in taking his things out and dumping them in a mud puddle, makes fun of him, doesn’t allow him to see his family or pay off debt, and is overall very angry he refuses to be a good church members. He has been secretly hiding away money to pay off debt and finance divorce because he also knows she will pay tithing on her support payment and refuses to work, so he wants to make sure they are in the best financial shape he can set them up with before he files. But that is coming to a close with him being able to do so after working 2 jobs simultaneously.