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Posted by: Hamster On A Wheel ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 12:19PM

Let me start by saying I am not trying to offend but I know this may sound offensive. I'm simply trying to work things out for me.

My background was nominal Christian, dabbled with paganism, then LDS. Now I'm at best inactive. At first I carried on praying and scripture study etc which lead me a few times to reconsider and visit with my local ward. But then I started being a little disobedient as far as church standards go.

Since that point I've found I wasn't praying or anything spiritual really. And now I'm sat wondering if I'm deliberately avoiding God because of my "sin", then I think but if I start to pray again is that opening up my mind again to simply some human frailty that needs a religious belief. How am I supposed to tell the difference? How did you go from tbm to atheist? Because that's kinda where I am right now, I feel as if if I started looking at faith especially christian faith I will be asked straight back into Mormon chains.

Thoughts welcome!

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 12:46PM

"How did you go from tbm to atheist?"

I still hung onto Christianity for a few years after leaving the church, but then I realized as so many other Ex-Mos have that you have to use the same illogic, rationalizations, and double standards to justify a belief in Christianity as you do Mormonism.

For instance, the Jesus of the New Testament believed in, and taught, a literal Garden of Eden/Adam and Eve/fall of man doctrine, as well as a literal global Noachic flood of circa 4500 years ago. Since scientific research has debunked both of those precepts, then it would be illogical and inconsistent for me to believe that Jesus was the son of God or the savior of mankind. He taught many great principles, and was apparently very charismatic, but he also believed in Old Testament myths and fables that he learned through his religious and cultural upbringing.

As for why I'm now atheist, that's simply because as science progresses, many religious beliefs are rendered obsolete. We now know enough about the natural world and the universe to recognize that it didn't require a "creator" to bring it into existence. We have learned over the last few decades that an antibiotic will cure many illnesses, and a priesthood blessing won't. IMO, it will still take another 200-300 years for the concept of creationism, or a supreme being in general, to be rejected by the majority of educated society, but I think that it will eventually happen.

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Posted by: Puli ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 01:54PM

randyj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "How did you go from tbm to atheist?"
>
> I realized as
> so many other Ex-Mos have that you have to use the
> same illogic, rationalizations, and double
> standards to justify a belief in Christianity as
> you do Mormonism.
>

My process was pretty much the same. I really like some of the concepts of Pantheism but realized I had no more proof that God and the universe were equivalent than I had for the Mormon God. It became important for me to stick with facts and I had nothing where God was concerned - only other people's opinions on who and what God is.

I currently consider myself an agnostic and believe that God if such an entity exists at all is not definable in our human terms.

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 12:47PM

My journey out of the MormonCult coincided with attending university where I was exposed to different subjects, different teachers and lots of books. Philosophy, geology, anthropology, astronomy, geography, all opened up a new world of ideas, many of which challenged what I had learned in Mormonism.

I was learning to do critical thinking....to gather facts, real facts, study them and draw conclusions which might change down the road if new facts debunked them. I realized that in Mormonism, critical thinking was not among the rules, that this was why I had never felt entirely comfortable in the religion.

My thoughts are to encourage you to always look for the facts that point to truth....to do critical thinking. You can decide for yourself. My journey led me to look into religion as a subject. My conclusion is that men made god, not god made man, and the journey and discovery is exciting and challenging.

Best of luck as you go forward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 02:58PM by presleynfactsrock.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 12:58PM

Once I saw evidence that TSCC's "truth" claims were demonstrably false, I decided that determining the value of claims by evidence (and not feelings or 'faith') was a good thing.
So I went on a search for evidence of "god."
I searched. A lot.
I didn't find any.

What I did find was that most of the "god" stories from other religions had the same basis as the claims of TSCC: feelings. Not facts, not evidence, feelings. And I also found that many of the claims other religions make (such as the factualness of bible/Quran/Veda stories) are either shown false by ample evidence or have no supporting evidence of any kind.

So I stopped "believing." Because I saw no value in "belief" when there's no evidence for what is believed, and a great deal of evidence showing the belief is rather silly. One day I just realized that I didn't believe any of it, and I wouldn't unless there was evidence to show there was a good reason to believe it. And I realized I was an atheist.

That was *my* "journey." Yours may be different. If you start digging, though, fair warning: you'll find that nobody else has any more evidence than mormons do for their claims, and that nothing we've found in our universe implies or requires a "god" or "creator." If you want there to be such a thing, don't start digging.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 01:02PM

I looked at other churches which just seemed like Mormon-Lite and frankly bored me. I never even thought about religion much after that, and then one day I just realized I was an atheist. I was kind of surprised. The thing was, once you strip the phenomenon of religion back to the bare bones, the bare bones are all based on hearsay. Hearsay wouldn't stand up in a court of law and the fact that we swear on a Bible to tell the truth is very ironic.

Much of the world values fact, reason, and evidence as essential to our existence, but when it comes to religion they give those essential life skills a pass, ignoring them completely.

I had to look at religion through my own eyes and no one else. Honesty demands the admission that the Bible proves a bible exists. It does not prove a god exists. A baby proves a baby exists, and not that God exists. The Book of Mormon proves scams can be successful, but again . . .God? Nope.

Although, perhaps Dallin Oaks is evidence that no God could possibly exist.

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Posted by: kvothe ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 01:29PM

I'd echo everything Hie said, and would add this:

From the very beginning of my life I was told how to view the world. I never had a chance to see it for what it really is, rather I had a lens placed over it.

For example, a tree was never a tree. A tree was: A tree, one of god's creations.

A dog was never a dog. A dog was: A dog, one of god's creations.

All the big questions a child might ask were always answered more or less like this: "because god, that's why."

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that "god" is not a satisfactory answer for anything.

I fully acknowledge that with my limited primate faculties I'm unlikely to see the essence of things, but I'd rather see the limits of my perception than be handed an unsatisfactory explanation that answers nothing.

Then I realized the uglier truth: god is only a control mechanism. Some guy figured out that it's easier to control people when you can frighten them or reward them.

Ultimately no man can offer a good enough reward or a scary enough fear to control everything, so they designed invisible rewards and invisible fears.

That covers the majority of the rest of the population to be controlled.

Leaving a very small minority who are unimpressed with those endeavors. They're call atheists.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 06:38PM

kvothe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For example, a tree was never a tree. A tree was:
> A tree, one of god's creations.
>
> A dog was never a dog. A dog was: A dog, one of
> god's creations.
>
> All the big questions a child might ask were
> always answered more or less like this: "because
> god, that's why."
>
> It doesn't take a genius to figure out that "god"
> is not a satisfactory answer for anything.

Wow, that was...beautiful. And profound. :)

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Posted by: Jonny the Smoke ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 01:43PM

When I learned through my direct experience that any religious effort I made to appease the gods didn't change anything in my life. It was only my behavior that needed to change and life would change with it and for me.

Once I realized I was 100% in charge of me and no unearthly beings were behind the scenes manipulating the strings of life for me.....I found I could pull all the strings myself and do very nicely for myself and others.

I think it works both ways too, whether you end up in sadness or with a happy life.

And one more benefit....As soon as I knew god didn't exist, satan didn't either.....and all the "weird, religious guilt trips and hang ups in your head" go away. If you are feeling "guilty of sin"....you might be living in ways that might need changing.

If you think about your life everyday and how you live it, and how it affects others, and try and behave in a way that promotes peace and love, what do you need god for?

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Posted by: pickleweed ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 02:38PM

personally, after realising the BoM was full of contradiction, I started to pick holes in the Bible and how confusing the new testament vs the old testament was and all the different Christian denominations etc.
So I asked myself, if God existed why would he ask us to seek him, and then make it so confusing and hard to do?
Then I came to the conclusion that, this is because he doesn't exist.
It hurt a lot, it's hard to remind myself because I was and still am desperate to believe but I remind myself that "desire to believe" is exactly what hoodwinked me into converting to Mormonism, and that was a pile of lies about a fraud and his "magic" stones in a hat; therefore I concluded that a desire to believe even the bible was no better.
If Jesus historically existed, I have no doubt he was a kind and friendly fellow who delighted in helping the poor while believing he was the son of God, but I personally no longer believe in God these days and saying it out loud has not brought me any lightening bolts, floods, or fire and brimstone.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 05:53PM

try jesus Opie ~ ( srs )


https://youtu.be/HMzZYkEGywI

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Posted by: religious_nah ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 06:43PM

Hamster On A Wheel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if I start to pray
> again is that opening up my mind again to simply
> some human frailty that needs a religious belief.
> How am I supposed to tell the difference?

I relate totally to what you're saying here. Logically I think religion and gods are total nonsense, but there is something very instrinsic, at least to most people, about the need or urge to believe in something higher than ourselves. I feel it, even as my logical mind tells me exactly what is happening, I'm letting a primeval part of my brain take over with feelings rather than rationality. I wrestled with this for a long time, now I just say if I want to pray I do. I'm just a person, no better or worse than anyone else, and I have needs and frailties, such as the need for god at times. The difference is now, I won't make sacrifices for the sake of religion, it's all about my comfort. Hoping that makes sense!

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Posted by: farside ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 06:49PM

So I was devastated when I realized Mormonism wasn't true. I studied Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and the Church intensively hoping to get my belief back, but that is the opposite of what to do when you want your belief back.

So I took comfort that although I didn't believe in Mormonism, but at least I was still a Christian, but I wasn't sure what type of Christian to be as there are so many types, so I started studying Christianity and reading the New Testament so I could select a new Church.

As a Mormon, I always stayed away from non-mormon scholars and experts. Now I felt free to pursue truth wherever it would lead.

For example, I listed to Dale Martin's New3 Testament Open Course from Yale. You can watch, listen to, or read his lectures and it's free. Dale is a believer but his course really opened my eyes. After a week of studying various scolars and reading the Bible, I was agnostic. A year later I'm atheist.

Here's the link to Dale's course if you're interested:

http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rlst-152

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Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 07:04PM

When someone asks you to smell milk, isn't your assumption automatically that the milk is bad?

To me, this journey is the act of testing all of your personal assumptions.

Just say no to confirmation loops.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 07:47PM

I didn't give up on god because I left mormonism, I left mormonism because I gave up on god.

The concept that was, for me, completely unacceptable is the idea of eternal judgment. Infinite reward or infinite punishment for anything that is done, or not done, in a finite life is completely unfair, unjust, and infinitely immoral.

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 03:07PM

Infinite punishment/infinite reward directly contradicts the idea of the atonement.

If we're to be infinitely judged for our deeds, then what was the point of the crucifixion?

If Jesus allegedly died for my sins, why is there still punishment/reward?

I've never been able to make sense of that.

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Posted by: kvothe ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 05:41PM

Ah, because Jesus didn't pay the debt; he bought it.

Now you owe Jesus :)

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 07:57PM

I figure we believe religion (take your pick) or we don't. The trouble is all the stuff muddying the picture.

I didn't "become" an atheist. I came to the realization I had always been one. If I hadn't been born into a very religious family, if I hadn't been indoctrinated, if I hadn't been surrounded by a culture that's predominantly religious, I would've never have been a Mormon, Christian, or anything else.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 08:09PM

For me, my entire journey was about research. I dared to study the things I'd always simply dismissed because I was told that they weren't real. Like Evolution. I studied it out and found that it is real. It was DNA which proved that to me.

I dared to study the history of the Bible and how the book came to be. I realized it was no more 'true' than the Book of Mormon. I took a look at how many gods man-kind has believed in over many thousands of years. There are a lot!

Why are they all wrong, but the Jesus one isn't? The Egyptian religion was around for thousands of years. I'm sure they never imagined that their religion would one day disappear. We study ancient myths, but they certainly weren't myths to the people at the time. It was their religion. It's all about trying to understand where we came from and what our place is in the world.

I studied physics. I basically just kept studying. I have to say I'm an atheist, because if you ask me, "Do you believe in God," I have to say, "No, I don't."

But if you ask me, "Does God exist," I have to say, "I've no idea. No one does. The only real truth is that we just don't know." At least not at this time we don't.

It's okay to embrace the mystery. I feel like a much more genuine person now. I'm a good person because I choose to be one and not because of the fear that I might go to some awful place in an afterlife. I have absolutely no fear of that now.

My sense of morality is simple. If you don't want someone to hit you, then maybe you shouldn't hit them. If you don't want people to steal from you, then maybe you shouldn't steal from them. Be the sort of person you want to have living in your society. If you want to live in a peaceful one, then there are just things that you can't do. Otherwise it won't be very peaceful.

I just strive to be true to myself first. Then, wherever I'm going, if anywhere, I'll at least get there honestly.

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Posted by: bobofitz ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 08:10PM

All things deteriorate, it's called entropy. Eventually they die, they become so disorganized they don't function anymore. Living systems included, but much more than that: physical systems, planetary systems, galaxies, etc, even possibly (in my opinion, probably)the Universe itself. Since man has " been on the scene" he has tried to alter this immutable progressive fact. He/she/they..gather in groups to survive, invent weapons to protect themselves, invent machines to get things done, fix stuff when it breaks, take their kids to the doctor, get cancer treatments, lung transplants, etc,etc. before mankind invented, thru logical thing, and the scientific method to solve their problems they appealed to " the Gods"...whichever one they were most familiar with....the "Gods" kept letting them down so they kept switching and inventing new ones, that didn't work either. Now finally a small percentage of humans get it. If you need something done, learn to do it yourself.( collectively speaking)
And everything kvothe said.....

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Posted by: focidave ( )
Date: January 30, 2017 11:30PM

I asked myself what void God filled in my life. I came up with five potential answers:

1) to make sense of the world around me (e.g., the world makes more sense if there is a creator who is overseeing everything),
2) to receive blessings now and at some undetermined point in the future,
3) to receive guidance for what to do with my life,
4) to receive comfort and healing in times of need, and
5) to receive forgiveness from sins.

Even before I left the church, I had filled several of those needs with other things. I had recognized that science provided a more compelling and useful explanation for how the world was created and works.

I then looked back on many of the things I had considered to have been blessings from God I had received in my life, but this time I asked myself if God was necessary to have received the blessing (or if I had just added him in). A good example is when I was travelling across Europe to do genealogy. We were planning on visiting some parts of Ukraine to do some research, but my rental car contract specifically said that we could not bring the car into that country (apparently, car theft is a big problem there). So we ended up going to a different town, where we ended up meeting some not too distant cousins. At the time, I remember commenting, "I don't think God wanted us to go to Ukraine." The problem with this is that God wasn't really involved in the story at all. If I didn't believe in God, I still would have been turned away at the border, and the town where my cousins lived was always our backup to visit. So it would have played out exactly the same. I liked the outcome, so I added God to the story.

And as far as the afterlife (blessings at some point in the future), to be honest, most of how I imagined it didn't even involve God, but rather relationships with other people and being able to reunite with loved ones who had passed on. Or it involved being able to travel through time and space in an instant and to be able to gain all knowledge. I'd imagine that God would be there, sure, but he really wasn't doing very much.

As for guidance, that's another one where in retrospect, I don't feel like I received all that great of guidance. A simple example is that on my mission I'd feel a strong spiritual impression to go and know on a door. In my head, I'd think, "This is great! There must be a golden investigator in there." But usually it was just someone who wasn't interested. So this left me confused for a minute, but then I'd begin to retcon the situation to fit what actually ended up happening. Even in cases where it seemed to more or less work out as expected, most of the "guidance" ended up being fairly generic, obvious stuff (go on a mission, go to college, get a job, get married, have kids).

As for comfort, I know that I have had times where I was searching for solace, prayed, and then felt much better. But you know, it was never as good of a feeling as when I was with actual people, friends and family.

But I think the coup de grace for me was forgiveness of sin. Of all the above items, I found that I could get the same or better without God, but forgiveness of sin couldn't have a substitute. But when I really started to question the church, I came to the conclusion that I didn't believe that most of what the church called "sin" was wrong (and, in fact, I think much of it brings happiness).

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 07:56AM

of "divinity" beyond my own self. But I do not feel lonely. I have given myself the gift of being able to "move freely about the cabin," exploring a life full of discovery and personal meaning.

I make my own decisions, unshackled by imposed guilt and enjoy my journey through my earthly experiences solo, unencumbered by myth or expectation, able to learn and change my mind and circumstances in the daily reality of new experiences, living in the moment, defining my own truth, apppreciating and resonating with other human beings and living things as my equals in time and space.

I tune in to what feels good, right and natural for me, and move away from that which doesn't.

I experience love on its own terms.

Life is real, beautiful, challenging and fleeting, which makes it all the more important and precious to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 08:12AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 09:14AM

It simply happened. I spent 18 months after Mormonism actively studying Christianity. I met privately with professors at a local seminary. I spent hundreds of dollars on Christian apologetic books. I visited a number of churches. My wife became a bit annoyed with me due to all the time I was investing and the money in this pursuit. I wanted my belief to be rational and not the type of blind trust I had placed in Mormonism. In the end, I could not believe any more.

The majority of folks we know here are Christians. My few close friends are all atheists. My wife and I associate with both groups equally. Religion is rarely discussed with Christian friends and acquaintances, though they will frequently talk about their church activities. Listening with minimal response seems to be a kind way to encourage them to change the topic of conversation. Perhaps because I am introvert, I prefer to be around kind people regardless of their religious belief.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 09:16AM by Eric K.

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Posted by: JohnJohnTheLeprechaun ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 10:10AM

For me, I was a born-in the Covenant, true-blue Mormon who embraced science but could always reconcile it with my LDS beliefs. In 2012, I heard an Intelligence squared debate called, “Does Science Refute God?”. I was deeply offended that science won the debate. A year went by but I kept thinking about this debate a lot. Eventually I came to the realization that the universe can exist and operate work perfectly well without needing a creator. But could still see it as having one too. I was maybe 95% believing and 5% atheist. Over time those percentages began to change to 50/50 and eventually switch places, until one day, after watching a video of Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins discussing this issue, it clicked in my mind more powerfully than my own religious conversion of my youth. I had gained a testimony of atheism, how weird this that?
All this time, I never once questioned the validity of the LDS church. But without a God ruling the universe my deeply held Mormon beliefs crumpled in a matter of hours, minutes even. It was the most shocking thing I have ever experienced. I am so glad that I did. The world is a wonderful place for me now that I can see it without the blinders of blind faith. It’s only been about 7 months and I am still trying to reconcile what LDS teachings I will keep and what will be left behind. Traditions are hard to break especially when a TBM wife (who knows my story) and kids are still in the balance.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 12:23PM

the more you seriously investigate the claims of religion the more you see the falsity. then what will you do ?

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Posted by: ftw ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 01:33PM

I'd call myself agnostic, but it started with things like Adam and Eve and the flood. There just aren't good explanations for how those can be real events.

Eventually issues like those and finding the church didn't make me happy caused me to look into some things. Didn't take long to start finding out all sorts of things about the church I didn't know before that made it impossible to believe.

I had spent months researching and praying and realized God was either leading me out of the church, didn't care, or didn't exist.

My faith in Christianity didn't survive long because Jesus requires Adam and Eve to make any sense and I never felt like I connected with Jesus, even as a missionary and everything else. Something just always seemed off about it, but I had believed in God.

A powerful scripture for me was in the book of mormon where Alma is arguing with Korihor, around chapter 30:44. I realized I empathized more with Korihor than Alma. When I looked around the world I didn't find that all things denote there is a God. At least not the God of Christianity.

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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 03:01PM

Without reading what anyone else wrote:

It was not my intent to go from mormon to atheist and it certainly wasn't a straight, direct path.

First thing was I learned critical thinking skills and put those to work on mormon doctrine. It was easy to see that mormon doctrine is not internally logically consistent. It's like a George Lucas movie -- it just makes no damn sense with any amount of examination at all.

I then found myself applying the exact same process to other Christian sects. One by one, I picked each one apart. Then I moved on to Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and even Paganism. Each religion fell apart under the scrutiny of logic. For me. Your mileage may vary.

So what I would suggest is, rather than starting with a foregone conclusion and then looking for evidence to support it, study whatever it is you want to study out while allowing the evidence to lead you to the correct conclusion.

Maybe it's just that I have issues with the idea of "faith." I have been stabbed in the back by my faith, so personally, I cannot imagine having a spiritual experience and then worrying that it will make me go right back to a church that abused me, mistreated me, and destroyed my self esteem. Maybe the church hasn't hurt you enough yet so the idea of going back doesn't seem like the worst possible outcome to you. To me, it would be like going back to an abusive spouse and begging for a few more fat lips. Maybe you just haven't yet been kicked in the teeth enough by the church that you can be so forgiving.

Ask yourself: what was your destabilizing event that caused you to leave the church?

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Posted by: morpher ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 10:05PM

A: Researching Christianity and *parent* Judaism. I found no huge differences from Moism except age and tradition.

No one who wrote the gospels met a living "Christ." The Christ story had been handed down, passed around and changed for almost a century before being "recorded" through writing. Centuries later, groups of men gathered, fought and died trying to decide the nature of god. God didn't bother to intercede to let them know who was "right." The winners assembled (and discarded) the writings they chose, and called that collection the bible. After all, the winners make the rules.

What they chose to include and discard reveals more about the choosers than any fierce or benevolent, omnipotent god.

When the "great flood" of 2005 wiped out nearly a quarter of a million people, did god's hand still the waters? No, but geologists scrambled to find a way to save many thousands. For the tons of nuclear reactors sunken, rusting with the subs they powered, where was god to prevent or fix that atomic atrocity? If the mess is to be cleaned up, it will be cleaned by humans.

A little off course, but I think my point can be taken. This world is what we make of it. A minority of humans have the comfort to complain about "agency" or "freedom," while thousands of innocents die every day from lack of safety and/or basic care.

If someone finds purpose or comfort in a being who never presents a helping hand, I choose to consider, support and defend my fellow humans. There, I find my time well spent, and good humans likewise invest in me.

Hansel and Gretel may well have originated from real famine. That's a reality I'd rather learn about and work to prevent, over ancient tales long deserving of a much smaller respect.

God didn't write about men building on sand. Men did. I seek the many rocks of reality. That's a twist I like.

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Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 10:42PM

Hamster On A Wheel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel as if if I started
> looking at faith especially christian faith I will
> be asked straight back into Mormon chains.

I've always been open minded, or so I thought.
But when it came to answering my children's questions about the faith they inherited, which I inherited, through 5 generations of my family, I took their questions seriously. I never felt good about the whole "Curse of Cain" myth being incorporated into Mormon scriptures. I never did accept it even as a Mormon missionary. If anybody brought it up, I'd deny the church was racist. But there came a point in my life where my children, my oldest boys, who are quite intelligent, were asking questions about the whole Curse of Cain thing and the whole Lamanite thing and evolution and how it all fit together.
My initial response was "Yes that's in the Scriptures. Yes Mormon leaders have been racist in the past and might still be. But personally, I don't believe it. Not a word of it. I don't accept creationism, I accept the theory of evolution. The Earth is obviously far older than the 6,000 yrs account in both the Bible and Mormon scriptures.
I think their math was off. Way off."
My kids would say, "So you don't believe in the scriptures?"
"Parts of it. I don't believe what it has to say about physical reality or the history of the physical universe, at all. That's what kept people in the dark ages for 1,000yrs. I believe in the reality that's revealed by science, which proves those naive theories wrong and Morally, I just think you can't reconcile racism with Christ's commandment to love our fellow men as ourselves. I still believe in that. That's what guides me. Not 19th Century racist myths used to enslave blacks and murder Indians so we could take their land."
But the more I thought about it, the more it bothered me that my fellow Mormons didn't feel the same way as me. There were racist things that came up all the time. My children were in seminary and my Bishop's wife was their teacher. I told my son what Brigham young said about blacks, and how horrible it was that he said they should be murdered for mixing their blood with whites. He brought that up in Seminary to his teacher, in front of the whole class. She said, "Well, I hate to say this because I know how horrible it sounds, but he was right. That's always been the punishment for inter-racial marriage, according to the law of God, which doesn't change."

4 of the kids in that room just got told that their parents deserved the death penalty and that they were cursed by God. Fuck that shit!!! GD IT!!!! IT's the 21st FUCKING century!!!!

I was furious.

But WTF was I supposed to do?

I went and complained to my Bishop about his racist wife. Turns out he was a fucking racist too. This is the man who delivered 3/4 of our children and was my wife's OB/Gyn, who told me, when I complained about the blatant racism STILL contained in Mormon scriptures and STILL being taught behind closed doors, "Why did Jesus tell his disciples to not preach to the Sumerians?"

I said, "I don't know. Maybe because they were skeptics and good debaters?"

He said, "No, because they were gentiles and not the Chosen People."

I said, "You've got to be kidding me, right? Are you seriously telling me that white people are superior to blacks right now?"

He said, "I'm telling you the Curse of Cain is real. It's right there in the scriptures."

I said to him, "You're my wife's Dr. If you believe that's real. I'm telling her to switch Doctors."

He said to me, "Look, you've got the right to have these doubts, but if you express them to other Mormons, I'll be forced to discipline you."

I said, "Even my wife and kids?"

He said, "Especially your wife and kids."

I was shocked. I shook my head in disbelief. He didn't answer my question, instead he threatened me with the humiliation of church discipline for sticking up for my kids, who are part Native American and being taught they're inferior to all the WHtie and Delightsome people in the Mormon church, just because of their heritage? I went home, put the finishing touches on my resignation letter and sent it in to SLC the next day, with a copy to my racist asshole Bishop as a big FUCK YOU to him and his racist wife.

Of course that didn't go over well with my wife. She understood, but was pissed that I just told her long time family friend, OB/Gyn to go fuck himself and the horse he rode in on. lol

Long story short, I too was left w/o a religion, after 5 generations of nothing but Mormonism to rely upon. I was also left w/o a wife, a house or a happy Mormon family.

Wife got the house and I became beach bum bachelor.

I found my place in paradise and I love my freedom.

Now most of my days are spent inventing cool ways to get out on the water and encounter the wild.

The outdoors is my church.
My god is the same god as the Dalai Lama, Einstein, Sagan, and Dawkins, nature.
I worship it every day, by getting out in it, one way or another.

I just invented a surf hammock and spent 10 days in Maui surfing in a hammock, with an anchor, so I could anchor off and swim with Sea Turtles, tons of them, who loved my cool surf hammock.
I could just drop down below deck and hang out with them and listen to the love songs of 10,000 humpbacks, all day and all night. I sleep in a treehouse on the beach most nights, but often I sleep beneath the Milky Way on Maui Bay, with 10,000 of my closest friends singing love songs to the Great Attractor in the center of the black whole.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 10:57PM by koriwhore.

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Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 11:11PM

Yea baby!

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Posted by: Cpete ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 10:46PM

Faith can be used to justify anything. It is useless when searching for truth.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: January 31, 2017 11:03PM

I went from Mormon to agnostic battling my father all the way. The son of a bitch wouldn't allow me my own conscience. Over the years it just got worse with his treachery and his smear campaigns. I decided that if there were a god, I would hate his fucking guts. So atheist.

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