Have never heard God described quite that way before. Coming from Tim Allen, the "Home Improvement" guy, it fits. :)

"I always do ask - whoever put me here; The Builder - what did You want me to do? I just want a relationship with Whoever built me. This is too much; too weird that it happened by accident. I don't believe that I happened by accident."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPLbd_HnvK0



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2017 09:24AM by Amyjo.

Tim Allen is an idiot.

"LIKE" +1

HH =)

That is not true. Tim Allen is a celebrity. Therefore he is brilliant and we should all care deeply what he says about theology and quantum mechanics.

Tim Allen is brilliant.

But if Tim Allen had said something you agreed with, he'd not have been an idiot?

Given the numerous "design" flaws in the human body, perhaps he should have referred to God as a "Jerry Builder".

Actually the "flaws" in the human body comes from sin. God originally created man perfect but after the fall of Eve and Adam sin entered in and death by sin. Jesus Christ was sent to remedy the problem and restore eternal life.

zeroszabo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually the "flaws" in the human body comes from
> sin. God originally created man perfect but after
> the fall of Eve and Adam sin entered in and death
> by sin. Jesus Christ was sent to remedy the
> problem and restore eternal life.

My take on this is that there is no such thing as perfection, except for God. To be accepting of imperfections is to accept our humanity.

In art there is a term for this known as wabi-sabi. "In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘寂) is a world view centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection.[2] The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete".[3] It is a concept derived from the Buddhist teaching of the three marks of existence (三法印 sanbōin), specifically impermanence (無常 mujō), suffering (苦 ku) and emptiness or absence of self-nature (空 kū).

Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, roughness, simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and appreciation of the ingenuous integrity of natural objects and processes." (wikipedia)

So devotion to Christ is offered as a way to moksha. Christianity is a repackaged Bhakti Yoga. Then modern Christianity has a huge problem because it’s become a religion of affirmation, not devotion. In other words, it’s no longer functional. It’s all empty gestures and going through the motions. It’s truly a cult.

Blind devotion just doesn’t work with the rational, educated mind. It requires magical thinking, which the modern world trains out of us. Secular humanism rules, so the supernatural is ruled out. It’s a little hard to be devoted to something you don’t really believe exists. Exmos have it especially hard because they were burned by a degenerate cult. That path to moksha is closed. Another path must be found, and that’s enlightenment. But that’s a whole other thing.

And God calls Tim Allen a tool.

I like Tim Allen.

All comes back to the Free Masons, even via Tim Allen.

What did Tim Allen say recently? Oh yeah...

Tim Allen is..... well, lets just say, 'not known for being overly thoughtful with his use of language'

the idea of a 'builder' is not exactly earth-shatteringly new....
I guess you could be generous and call it 'intelligent design for someone who deals in soundbytes'

but, hey, credit where credit is due............I really liked his voiceover work in Toy Story

Toy Story was brilliant.

:)

Buzz Lightyear finding out he’s a toy is definitely on topic.

...because arguments from personal incredulity are SO convincing.

Not.

When I'm unsure on any given topic, I look to celebrities to figure things out. They know things we can't know, because they're famous.

:)

Thank you for saying that, DE. It puts all discussion of God in context!

But did He get the proper construction permits?

And where's His contractor license?

Only heaven knows. :)

Masons call their God the Grand Architect of the Universe. That is basically the same thing as a builder.

That's neat to know.

My never Mo grandfather was a Mason. :)

Tim Allen is a comedian and entertainer. Anything he says should be consider that, comedic and entertaining.

I wouldn't give a Hollywood personality any superior or educated credence for anything they say outside their venue of make-believe and entertainment.

I prefer scientists and subject matter experts for their thoughts and opinions.

Politicians are in a class by themselves, experts on deceit, cheating and swaying public opinion to get elected.

I'm thinking that Amyjo got so little respect (Like none) from a significant segment of the RfM population when she used her cousin Einstein to try to establish the existence of a personal ghawd, that she decided to try a new approach.

But the only thing startling at this point is that Amyjo is not claiming to be related to Mr. Allen.

I like Tim Allen as an entertainer. His entertainment side is all that I know. But thanks to the Deseret News, I now know that he "...almost walked out of..." a performance of The Book of Mormon. ...Almost... The really deeply religious DID walk out!

I wish the DN reporter had asked him if he, Tim, had ever tried reading the real Book of mormon. That would likely have gotten a hilarious response!

Tim Allen did two years in prison after having been caught in possession of a significant amount of cocaine. That was in 1978. He acknowledges that he had an addiction, and to his credit, he has done something about it.

He was raised in a religion and but changed from that religion, Anglicanism, to Catholicism, his wife's religion of choice. So he's both flexible and smart.

And he is a performer. A good one...predictable. And that's how I like my performers.

We're all predictable! Who here bet on me responding in a fashion that showed derision towards Amyjo's decision to use RfM as her personal religious playground? Winner!!!

It never, never ends. . .

This post is seriously older than my post on Einstein's beliefs.

You are the one who raised the inference asking if I was related to him. Upon further inquiry I learned that all Ashkenazi Jews are cousins by degrees.

Thanks to you I learned something new that day, that Einstein is indeed my cousin. Just not as close as his best friend, Max Born.

Aside of all that, what Einstein believes, or Tim Allen, or me is just fine. Add Bob Dylan, another Ashkenazi Jew to the believing ranks. Like Einstein, he's another Nobel prize winner for his contributions to the human race. What do their beliefs have to do with anything? To them, everything. To you, nothing. Because you are irreligious and godless. I don't challenge your beliefs. You take it upon yourself to challenge mine.

Only on RfM.

None of this will matter for Atheists, but the following is important in explaining why Judaism and Christianity have not been able to reconcile over the centuries.

There is a Hebrew reason behind the idea of God as a builder, and that is the word "Av," which is Hebrew for "father." This word is said to come from the root BN"H which means "to build." The father is the agent, i.e. the builder of that which is built - the son, which is "Ben" in Hebrew.

This also explains why the Christian Trinity made no sense to Semitic speakers - since a son is "built," it is created, rather being an uncreated generation. Jews ascribe "Father" to the 2nd sephira of Chochma/Wisdom/Logos, as it is this aspect of Wisdom that creates man - i.e. "in Wisdom hast Thou created us all." The source of the Father is the Crown - or the singularity, called Kether, in Hebrew. The first three sephrioth of the Tree of Life are called "supernals" and are the "economies" of "enumerations" in which the unknowable essence of God interacts with the Universe. The third emanation called Binah/Understanding is called the Mother in Judaism.

"Son" refers to man, who was built by the Father through the formative powers of the Mother.

In Greek, which was the language mostly used by early Christianity, Father and Son have a completely different meaning. Father refers to the singularity - the source of being, and Son is that which is generated (rather than built or created) from the Source. Thus in Christianity, This Kether/Crown was referred to as "Father" and the Chochma/Wisdom/Logos as a generation from the Source is called "Son." Light Judaism, Christianity views creation as originating from Wisdom. Binah/Understanding becomes the Holy Spirit in the Christian Trinity - while in Judaism the Holy Spirit does not refer to Binah, but to the Shechina, which in Christianity is known as "Grace."

Thus, it was linguistic confusion that drove a wedge between the Greek-Christian and the Hebrew-Jewish descriptions of the Supreme Unknowable No-Thing. This confusion already existed between Greek and Hebrew speaking Jews before the time of Jesus. Christianity made the split complete between the two.

Because Jews assume that "son" in Christianity means the same as the Hebrew "Ben," it makes no sense to them that the Son can be considered "God." Similarly, Christians fail to understand that "Ben" specifically refers to a created being in Judaism. The irony is that both Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity have the same understanding of Divinity, although they use different terms for the same concepts. The real difference is whether a Jew accepts that the person Jesus Christ is both Ben (created Man) AND Uios/"Son" - uncreated, generated Wisdom unified in One Person, born as Jesus. The actual concept is not foreign to Judaism, although Judaism does not allow that Jesus was at this level of incarnation.

Freemasonry frequently uses Hebrew and speaks of the Incarnation of Jesus as "Aben," which means "stone" in Hebrew. Aben is a combination of both "Av" and "Ben." Thus while the language is different from the Greek, it does have the same meaning as the Greek idea of incarnation. Like Jesus, all of humanity should strive to build this Aben within himself - linking his humanity to Divine Wisdom, to become a co-creator, co-builder, with Divinity. Perhaps it is this idea that Joseph Smith used for the idea of man growing into a "god" in the Celestial Kingdom. The idea does exist in Freemasonry, Eastern/Oriental Christianity as well as in Mystical Judaism.

From an Atheist perspective, one could consider that beyond the Universe is the unknowable and within it there is 1.beginning singularity, 2. energies and 3.forces. The various interplay between these 3 give rise to what exists in the Universe. No supernatural explanation is necessary. In a way, the 3 supernals/Christian Trinity are an attempt at a "theory of everything." Mastery of the energies and forces would indeed give man a god-like power in the universe. Whether Atheist or Theist, it is thus important to choose wisely and learn to use power properly for furtherance of life rather than for its destruction.

Over the past 10 years, I have had the opportunity to explain this to many observant Jews who are surprised to find that the Christian Trinity is not objectionable to them, while they still would not accept that Jesus is the Messiah (who indeed will be a Son (Ben) possessing perfect Wisdom (Chochma).

Thank you for sharing this.

It's very informative, and educational.

I can understand Christ being the word made flesh, so the son of God just like any other schmuck, but what’s with the suicide by cop?

a clueless dipshidiot.

LOL!

DtA calls Tim Allen "The Blunder".

Or as monkeys say, God is the “top banana”.

Is this the same Tim Allen who went to prison for drug dealing ?

Yep ... he's a paragon of virtue.

Thank you Amyjo, inspiring/motivational video and interesting discussion.

The people running "Jesus Daily" back in 2015 thank you from the bottom of their hearts.

How come no one puts up any videos on RfM from LDSinc for use as inspiration?

And this is a serious question: Do any of the atheists here, other than Kori, try to inspire the rest of you to "give atheism a try!"?

I don't think anyone gives Atheism a try. I think you wake up one day and discover you are one.
Also you are born one.

That’s what Woody was trying to tell you, Buzz.

Thanks, StillAnon.

I thought so too. :)

Builder of guns.
Builder of disease.
Builder of earthquakes and tsunamis.
Etc.


As usual, people find a way to attribute good to God, and conveniently ignore the associated bad side of the statement.


Always credit, never blame god. Why? My opinion is they are scared of God and don't want to say anything bad.


The other overriding message is it's easier to say "God did it" than not have an answer.


Does God have a workshop with cool tools or does he blink his eyes twice to create his whims?

“God shot up the synagogue because he was having a bad day” doesn’t work for most people.

When it comes to having your House of Worship shot up by someone with a lack of respect for human life, how does one figure ghawd's view of the matter?

Is that another of the mysteries? You know, the mysteries that make ghawd such a wild and crazy guy!! One just never knows!