OK, I'd first like to ask the moderators if it is all right to give out information on Elder McCauley's comp, their phone number, or what city they're in.

I reach the meeting house where the Sacrament Meeting has just concluded. I find the comp of the deceased in a small room in a one-on-one with the mission president. I meet them when they're done, the MP is friendly, and I ask him what happened. He says they don't know yet, that they're waiting for an autopsy, but in his words he simply "died during the night". He seemingly was in a hurry and tried to rush out the door, and it almost seemed he wouldn't let me talk to the comp. But at least he stopped to let me say a prayer, before rushing out the door.

I am told by another missionary elder that the whole mission and all missionaries know about it. STRANGELY, his passing wasn't mentioned at all during sacrament meeting. In fact, I just discovered this tragic news right here at RfM just after the Priesthood session. When I did, I got so antsy I decided to find out more.

So now I 'm going to the police station for information on how to do this coroner thing. Should I go to the newspaper and radio station too, since nobody here knows the real story of what TSCC is all about?

Hi Agnes B. Thanks for your post. Please don't give out a phone number. Other information like city is likely going to be published so no restriction there. As for contacting news outlets, that's your choice.

Neither the name of the comp, right?
Understand, Wisconsin/Illinois people know little about the Morg or its practices that make it a cult. So, this very likely won't make the local news because of that, unless I went to them and told them the unsavory history of TSCC.
The comp looked kind of depressed, but the MP was smiling and all business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 04:03PM by Agnes Broomhead.

thank you for caring about the companion! I stopped by the local chapel today and expressed my sorrow to one of the missionaries. She is so sad and it doesn't seem like people want to talk about it :(

And maybe the press SHOULD hear about this to hep prevent future tragedies, right?!

From the Kenosha county website:

How can I find out about the cause of death?
Following the post-mortem examination of a decedent’s body, the KCMEO will contact the legal next of kin with preliminary findings (if they wish to be notified). If the cause of death cannot be determined immediately (requiring further investigation and/or studies), you may request that a copy of the final autopsy report be mailed as soon as it is complete (there is no charge for this service for the next of kin).

How can I obtain a copy of the death certificate?
The death certificate is completed in two sections: the medical portion is completed by the KCMEO, while the remainder is completed by the funeral home. Once the death certificate is completed, it is the responsibility of the funeral home to file the document with the WI State Office of Vital Statistics. You can look it up here for a minimal charge.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/vitalrecords/record.htm

You live in Kenosha too?

I was planning on calling the coroner tomorrow morning, but I have a feeling he won't cooperate due to privacy laws.
All I want to know is if this was a suicide or not.

whether it is suicide or not is my concern as well. I worry about these dear young people. No, I don't live in Kenosha, but since the missionaries move around so often I just happened to meet one in my area. Thanks again for reaching out and caring about these kids

As someone else posted, you can obtain a copy of the death certificate, but it could be some time to do the autopsy, write it up and get it into the files. Not sure if they would actually write "suicide" but definitely give the medical cause.

If it happens to be the case it was a drug overdose, for example, some further investigation is needed to ascertain why: accidental, self-admistered or inflicted by another person.

Sometimes even young people can tragically die due to natural causes (enlarged heart, infections, etc).

"you can obtain a copy of the death certificate"

Not necessarily. Depends on the state. In California, you can obtain one as soon as it's filed, but only the next of kin (or designated agents) can get a "certified copy" that's usable for legal purposes; others get an "informational copy" which is otherwise identical.

In Utah, you can't obtain one, period, at all, for 50 years after date of death *unless* you're next of kin. Then after 50 years, they're released to the public.

I don't know what the Wisconsin laws are.

That information for Wisconsin is on the website previously posted. It does also include this detail in the FAQ:

"Fact-of-death certificates contain the manner of death (e.g,. natural, accident), but do not contain the cause of death (e.g., metastatic cancer, complications of left hip fracture) and can be used for most financial transactions. Extended fact-of-death certificates contain cause of death information and can be used for insurance benefit claims. For deaths occurring in 2003 and later, only persons with a direct and tangible interest can obtain certified copies of extended fact-of-death certificates."

My bet is that despite the MP's admonition to not talk, someone WILL talk once the facts are known.

You can bet that churchco is doing their up-most to keep the lid on this and keep it out of the limelight. Unless one of the missionaries will spill the beans, no one may ever know. I am sure they have all been given the order to not discuss or reveal what they know.

Thank you Agnes, your involvement brings this closer to home and it's not just a headline in some newspaper somewhere.

It's hard to fathom that in the very ward he was assigned to and the same people he worked and lived with are silent on the subject.

The entire service should have been to mourn his loss and passing, out of respect for his calling if nothing more. To at least be able to grieve his loss would've been appropriate. It sounds as though the MP is brushing it under the carpet as "business as usual," when those other young missionaries are hurting and grieving.

Let the poor kids grieve the loss of one of their own.

Why all the secrecy? It makes no sense at all, and disrespects the life and death of that elder.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's hard to fathom that in the very ward he was
> assigned to and the same people he worked and
> lived with are silent on the subject.

CLARIFICATION:

The deceased elder was not in my ward. But it's in the same mission, and just a short drive away. Easy decision to try to go in person and get the scoop, but I get the strange feeling the MP is acting a little evasive.

I did not hear of this until right after sacrament meeting. Funny, I have been known to browse RfM during lulls in action at SMs, but I just did not pay attention this time. Or last night for that matter.

The fact that the entire SM in an adjacent stake was conducted without this information disclosed during announcements is very irritating to say the least. I have heard leadoff announcements mention the deaths of opossums like Perry, Packer, and Scott, but apparently missionaries other than the ones in person representing that ward don't matter.

To show the absurdity of this cult, you Google his name right now, you get lots of Utah-based media outlets mentioning his passing, but not a single local media outlet at all. I don't know if deaths of teenagers at home that don't seem like foul play warrant newsworthiness, but at least I want to find out if this is suicide or not.

I will contact the coroner tomorrow.

Our young missionaries are the most tragic victims of this monstrosity!

I hate to argue, but is it possible that the reason the mp is quiet is out of respect for the poor family that lost their boy? I mean, how would you feel if your boy died and you heard it from some nosy tbm rather than the sob that was supposed to take care of him? And secondly I feel like assuming it was a suicide is outrageous when there is no proof saying so or otherwise. Thirdly: church leaders aren't always some monstrous entity, it's​ entirely possible they didn't want word getting out before the family and home ward know. If any of you living there wouldn't mind going next Sunday, I'm sure they'll mention it. As an aside; to fight tscc we can't fight ignorance with more ignorance, if you sincerely wish to bump tscc off, we must not assume (in this case) that suicide is the only way this could have happened, considering TBMs will most likely be ignorant in thinking that the suicide of a missionary is unbelievable. We must wait until physical evidence manifests itself *steps off soap box*

My grandmother died early on a Sunday. My mother told me and my sisters and told us they would tell my little brother who was still asleep when they got back from making arrangments.
We got ready and went to church. Well, my brother found out when the bishop announced it in church. He meant well, but it was hardly an ideal way for a little boy to find out his grandmother was dead. Of course I could have told him before or better still we could have skipped church. There was blame to go around. Perhaps the leaders were trying to avoid such an occurance.

As for suicide, there are many other possibilities and I think speculating about it is kind of tasteless.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 03:15AM by bona dea.

Yeah, I think it would be more appropriate to step away and leave them alone. I mean, would any of us like it if someone came snooping around about a death in our family? Yes, we're curious about the cause of death, but it's really none of our business.

I agree. The worst thing after I lost a family member to suicide was the people who came around asking "what happened?" If that is the case in this situation, please respect the family.

I couldn't agree more. My heart goes out to the family.

The *monstrosity* is Joseph Smith's entire lie from the get-go.

My heart breaks in particular for the young men who go on missions knowing that if they don't, most LDS girls will look down their noses at them.

And for what? --a lie!

Agreed, but the mp is one of three things, hell, most, if not all TBMs can fit into one of three categories;

they who Know the lie, but love the Dominion they have over others

They who are ignorant (sheep) who follow with nary a thought of their own (a sweeping generalization I feel)

And those who think that a deep trust and faith In (their) god will overcome all proof of manipulation and lies of the church.

Of those three I would say only one is bad but you can't assume that each and every leader as the first Tbm.

You are definitely right about the Mission part. I have such problems with self esteem that I believe are the church's fault in no small part I seriously doubt I'll ever fulfill my dream of having a small family, depending on the circumstances, especially if he never told anyone about any doubts he may have had, his parents and "brothers and sisters through god" just lost a paragon in their lives. Similar to the death of your big brother/sister, mother/father etc. That you always held on high regard. Then you overhear some person who doesn't even know said person saying that they had killed themselves because they could never live up to your expectations.

So far all the news sources are saying that he died from "unknown causes."

It would make sense if it was known it would've been reported as causal.

He may have simply died in his sleep from an aneurysm, heart attack, no one really knows.

I'll throw my two cents in, mine may not be a popular opinion around here, but I'll state it anyway.

Why would you invade this person's privacy in this way. You are not entitled to the cause of his death. You are not entitled to announce it to the news paper, You don't know this young man and there is no reason for you to be snooping around the corner's office. You are not Angela Landsbury, going off to solve a crime that you don't even know that had been committed.

Leave this poor boy alone, leave his companion alone (you asked to publish his phone number on a public website! That's called doxing, that is a horrible thing to do to anyone, it's a huge violation of privacy.) He is, no doubt, grieving over this.

Imagine if this was your child and you found out that someone who was actively working against your faith, was trying to find out personal information about your child and wanted to ensure that it was published in the media. You would be horrified. I would anyway.

Let this family, and this young man and those around them have their privacy, let them grieve however they choose. You are helping no one by being the "evil anti-mormon" who invaded these people's privacy.

Finally Free, you sound like a very respectful person.

But also, if this were my child, I'd be grateful that there are people who are outraged over his death. We have no idea how TSCC may be leaning on this family to brush their son's death under the rug.

Presleynfactsrock made a very cogent comment in a neighboring thread:

--"Missions are DANGEROUS CHILD ABUSE, plain and simple, that need to be stopped."

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1974436,1975013#msg-1975013

Yes, missions are dangerous child abuse. That doesn't mean that we have any right to insert ourselves into the private lives of these people's grief. Calling the coroner's office? Going out of your way to attend the ward where this person was serving? Trying to talk to the companion who is probably grieving and most likely has a great deal of guilt that they are dealing with?

We might have the best intentions in the world, but we don't know these people. We have no right to insert ourselves into their lives.

There are plenty of ways to show outrage other than invading the privacy of those who are grieving.

Take it another way, we have shown time and time again that we feel that it is horrible the way the church takes advantage of those who are grieving to further their aims, turning funerals into missionary opportunities. Would we be any better by turning this person's death into an anti-mormon media push? Isn't that taking advantage of their grief?

Let them be, whatever the cause of death, which is none of our business, this is a tragedy. We can show we are better by showing our respect and trying to educate people without taking advantage.

Well said, FF...why go around doing the very thing that is such a sore spot for exmos?

It sounds like you really don't care about a young man brainwashed since birth into a false gospel, who at age 19 is thrown into an unfamiliar place that is VERY non-Mormon, who then sees things aren't going the way his brainwashers told him it would, and then cracks under the pressure. Doors slammed in his face, everywhere he goes. In a place where almost no one's ever heard of Joseph Smith. Seeking new victims to deceive.

That's why I just contacted a reporter at the local newspaper. But it appears the story isn't newsworthy enough to print. I only want to know if it was suicide-related. Maybe you don't care if teenagers commit suicide. I do.

We'll have to wait 3-4 months as that is the time it takes for the medical examiner to find out. In the meantime, the Morg and it's inspired mission president will simply sweep this under the rug.

You don't know me. You seem very happy to make assumptions about people who don't know.

You seem very determined to assume that this Missionary committed suicide. You know nothing of the kind. There are privacy laws and time limits for a reason, to let families grieve in peace.

Who are you to decide when a family's privacy should be invaded? Are you stopping every missionary you see, kidnapping them and trying to deprogram them? Or are you just doing that to the ones who have passed away? Think about that for a while and then get back to me. Think about what it means to take advantage of someone's grief.

We don't want Mormon's invading our privacy, what gives us the right to do that to them?

We do care and that is why there are people telling you to let it be. Since we do not have to details concerning this young man's death, we can not say either way if it was suicide or not and it is not your place to assume it was suicide. Maybe it was an unknown medical condition that did this kid in, I don't know. Please, let this kids family and friends grieve. If the family wants the world to know how their son died they will make it known.

There are privacy and Hippa related matters surrounding the death of anyone. It really isn't a matter for the public record unless the family wishes to make it known.

I understand the cause for concern when a mishie dies away from home and family, while on assignment.

Maybe the news will report on it eventually. It isn't up to us to decide either way.

It may be cause for alarm, depending on what happened. On the other hand, I still think the church is wrong to brush it under the rug as though nothing happened, and returned to business as usual, not even allowing the other missionaries to grieve their loss of a companion.

Unless you are family, family's legal representative or law enforcement, Wisconsin will not give out or allow people to view death certificates listing cause of death for anyone who died from 2003 to the present. Courthouse clerks have told me this is because of HIPAA medical privacy rules.
I have known "perfectly healthy" young adults to die in their sleep from natural causes (usually cardiac related), but I too
would wonder about suicide, given his state of enforced servitude.
More suicides occur in spring than at any other time of year.
If you see anyone at risk or having a hard time and want to help:
www.save.org (Suicide Awareness Voices of Education)
It has lots of good information and and an 800 number suicide hotline.
www.nami.org (National Alliance on Mental Illness) has a 24.7 crisis text line and information about all mental health diagnoses.
Makeitokay.org and Okaytosay.org help people talk to each other about mental illness and work to reduce the stigma.
Mental illness is brain disease.

Thank you

Sometimes people die and even the autopsy fails to reveal a cause. It happened to my nephew and to others. As far as the mission being abusive, maybe this kid wanted to go and was enjoying the experience. We do not know if he was abused or unhappy and we dont know what caused his death.Whatever bappened is none of our business.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Br2GVcbkVIsJ:https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/news_briefs_two_sought_in_store_robbery_492973865.php+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Doesn't look suspicious, but we should still speak out on these tragedies.....

Why should we speak out? Maybe he loved being a missionary. Maybe he didn't. Who knows.

I served a mission in Europe that was very difficult and very damaging to my mental health. During the endless days of tracting from morning till night (often past 9 PM) I thought I was serving the Lord. I went willingly, worked very hard, and my friends and family were very proud of me. When I returned home I was grateful for my experience - - I was shell shocked and weirded out but was proud of myself for enduring to the end. It took several years until I finally realized that the Mormon Church was a fraud and that my mission did more harm than good. If someone had warned me before going on a mission that the church was a fraud, I probably would have gone anyway because I was a pleasing sort of person - always trying to do what was "right." I would have disregarded any ex-mos trying to deter me as bitter people who had lost their way.

I strongly believe that the Mormon church will slowly peter out. I was as TBM as they come and believed 100% in the farce, even though my never-mo dad and friends tried to convince me otherwise. Their ridicule of my beliefs made me a stronger member. When I believed in the scam I couldn't even fathom how a member of the one and only "true" church could go inactive. It did not compute. I got out though, and so did some of my fanatically believing TBM friends who I never thought would leave. They did it on their own though, not because someone tried to convince them that it was a fraud.

One thing I'd like to add...the people who always gave me a hard time about being a Mormon are people I don't particularly like being around. Their smug "I told you so" condescending tone is irritating, and even though I'm out of the cult, I don't like being around them. I'd like them more now if they hadn't given me a hard time when I believed in the cult. I need to remember this when I become irritated with my friends and family members who are still believing Mormons. I don't want to push them away.

Members of the Morg will figure out the truth on their own. I did without the internet or reading anti literature. It all just stopped making sense to me and so I stopped attending.

At least today's doubting Mormons have resources, like this site. They'll come to it when they're ready. Give them time.