Can we list the secret doctrines of the church, i.e., the ones that missionaries withhold when they teach a mark... Er, uh, contact? What are examples of teachings still withheld not only from new members, but from the rank-and-file?

My wife clammed up the other night when I answered one of her questions about people not joining or bailing out of the church, because I cited the fact that Mormons are still--after all these years--acting in secrecy. People don't like that. It was somewhat better when you had no Internet, and people gave you little bits of information over time. Then it seemed like maybe you just hadn't been listening well. But now people know up-front that they're learning one thing, then being vetted to learn doctrines that are, by nature, secret.

It didn't go over very well the one time I explained to my wife that, at the time of Joseph Smith's death, two parallel Mormon churches had existed for at least two years--the public church, and the secret church. Not all Mormons were vetted for the secret church, not even some of the leaders and Mormon celebs. For instance, I don't think that Sidney Rigdon was welcomed into the inner circle. Emma Smith was not in the inner circle. The public church had quite a different face, one of old-time religion and God and Jesus and Shiz like that. The secret one was a church of Freemasonry, secret ceremonies (even cutting the flesh, at least at first), polygamy, polyandry, and plain polyamory. The secret church got Smith killt, killt really bad.

The Second Annointing. But, there are missionaries who don't know about it.

The rock in the hat. But again, there are missionaries who don't know about that either.

and they were clueless. Never heard of the dark skin curse or men becoming gods. Might be different now because of the musical and more media exposure.

I think the over-reaching factor is dilution of simple doctrines / teachings especially such as Honesty & Kindness.

For those people, Christ-Like Living was gone forever, just like today.

The Church's real estate listings
The death penalties in the temple ceremonies back in the day
The Mountain Meadows Massacre
The Danites

my personal favorite was the slitting of the throat....

Jeff Holland told BBC that Mormons hadn't done that--before telling BBC that, in fact, they HAD done that. But they quit, you know, so it's all cool now, right?

Tithing. Missionaries teach tithing, but they don't teach it in a way that an investigator would necessarily understand that tithing is the single most important doctrine in the church. There are no forever families without full tithing payments.

My dad joined the church in the late 60s. He says that he didn't understand the importance of tithing in the LDS church until a bishop instructed him to borrow money from his non-member family so he could be a full tithe payer one year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2017 10:22AM by want2bx.

I was baptized about 40 years ago, while a college student with very little money. I worked sometimes 50 hours a week to pay my bills, tuition, books and the like.

The missionaries that taught me never mentioned that I would have to pay 10% of my meager earnings to TSCC.

I found that out the week AFTER my baptism, when the bishop hit me up about tithing.

I was barely making it as is, and he had his hand out for 10%.

I should have walked out the door right then and there, and never looked back.

The church tells members that JS was killed by an angry mob. What they don't say is that the mob consisted of legal authorities and respectable citizens.

moehoward Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The church tells members that JS was killed by an
> angry mob. What they don't say is that the mob
> consisted of legal authorities and respectable
> citizens.

An angry mob is still an angry mob. I'm not a fan of Joseph Smith, but neither should we defend vigilante justice.

They also don't tell that Joe Smith was armed while in jail and the others in jail were armed and that there was a shoot out. He wasn't actually martyred as he wasn't defenseless and I believe their were casualties on the mob side.

Missionaries certainly don't go reading the D&C or Pearl of Great Price to investigators/ new members. The D&C when you really read it is pretty crazy and full of contradictions and is also violent.

The thing is that LDS inc. is not a Christian religion in that the 'restoration' is really about going back to Mosaic laws and old Testament vengeful God worship. It is NOT about love and doing away with old laws as Christ did, it is about restoring brutal archaic controlling laws and about the church members follow Joe Smith as their messiah, not Christ. Only he could give commandments to the followers from God. This is even written in the D&C. There are a lot of threats in there, do this or else! And that book is called 'The Doctrine and Covenants'.. so there you have it, the doctrine. That even though is made available to members is hardly studied (growing up in TSCC we mainly read the King James bible and the BoM (which is largely plagiarized from that bible, the one full of errors in fact, corrected in other bible versions)…

But even when we did study D&C it was so hard to follow and understand the true meaning. So in a way it was still kept hidden and certainly the uncomfortable doctrine (polygamy, violent and racist parts) tended to NOT be studied at all. It's like we just pretended they weren't there.

TSCC pretends to be about Love and Christ and that is the cover, the friendly PC version they present to the public. But the real doctrine is about obedience and servitude to an angry frightening unloving god via god's representatives (church leaders, presented in a hierarchy) .. the bottom line is you have to 'follow the prophet' and give him your money and swear obedience to his church in the secret temple ceremonies.

The temple ceremonies of course are kept secret from investigators, new members, and the rest of the members that haven't been to the temple. If missionaries (or other church reps at church) told you that you HAD to pay tithing and that the very special wonderful temple marriages meant standing naked before a stranger so they could touch your privates and then tell you about the weird outfits you would have to wear and the green aprons and weird hats, the oaths, handshakes and secret names.. well I don't think that would go over so well!

JS and his brother had a gun for sure, but 200+ in an angry mob of fathers who wanted their money and daughters back, got the better of poor JS.

scmd,
I assumed most saw my comment as a tongue in cheek

moehoward Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> scmd,
> I assumed most saw my comment as a tongue in cheek


I'm a bit slow on the uptake (still a bit concrete operational as far as Piaget's stages go) and have been known to miss tongue-in-cheek-ness,

Scmd,
I've been guilty of the same thing.

They should also point out that the mob had reason to be angry! ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2017 09:16PM by nomonomo.

Things they should not know by the time they get baptized and commit to join:


The pay of the leadership- missionaries are to lie in the discussions and say "lay clergy".

Brigham Young.

The history of Polygamy (see BY above)

The source racism (see BY above)


Things not to know for members:

That the leaders mean well but there is no real revelation

MMM

Kinderhook story

That Emma apostatized

The timeline in succession to BY in council Bluffs, Iowa

That JS was a poly

Things NEVER, EVER KNOW:

That JS married minors

That JS defrauded with a fake bank

That he was killed for copying and breaking masonic rites

DNA science

Hieroglyphs

That TSM is senile

Salary amounts

the poor science in the BOM (seeds, animals, materials)



The list really is endless for each one, but they are carefully compartmentalized in order to be disassembled at each level. But the bottom line is that the whole thing is help together by lies, that if exposed, release another lie system, then another, then another.

it works like this:


1) JS was a polygamist? No, that is an anti-mormon lie

2) But he received a revelation and BY was a polygamist? well' he was commanded to do it, but it was very little and he did not like it.

3) but you said he did not do it! Well, don't be bitter and confrontational. those are the tools of the adversary.

4) No , I just want to know. Well its impossible for us to know to day what happened, things were different back then

5) so is it a principle or not? It is not now, which is all we need to be concerned about.

6) but for the sake of doctrine, is it? it is, but later on, it is not required and it was only practices by a few people

7) So god is a polygamist and I need to be one to get to heaven? No, well , yes, but it does not matter, and that is all that matters, if you believe the church. its a matter of faith for them then and for us now. Some past leaders have said that but our current prophet has not dressed it, so it must not be important.

8) Well I want to know, I the entire gospel had been revealed. - you need to repent. Be warned that you are saying that what the prophet says is not enough for you, beware your pride.

The White Wash is so effective. Oh ya, well, we used to do that but we don't do that anymore so it's not policy or doctrine.
When a prophet dies, his words died with him.
Only the current prophet speaks for the church.
Members know only about 10% of the history and that has been White Washed until it's just more "faith promoting" !
Their answer that is so insulting: well, were you there? Huh?

The real problem with religion in general and Mormonism specifically is the amount of control they manage to exert over the individual in the name of pleasing their deity and savior. No need to have any real evidence, these are alive and well in the mind of the believer. Nevermind that it is all imaginary!
Doesn't everyone need an imaginary friend?

"That's not doctrine" is yelled from the rooftops when the actual doctrine and teachings are repeated but not used today.

Religion: the original "need to know" organization!
Mostly, you don't "need to know" - so just do as you are told be obedient. Ya. That's the ticket!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2017 01:57PM by SusieQ#1.

You are so eloquent!!!

more of Mormon cultural expectations that are learned the hard way for new members:

You are EXPECTED to never turn down a calling or any other church request.

A dress code exists for every church event. You will be the talk of the ward if you show up too casual/inappropriate.

You can not be a part time member. Even missing one Sunday per month, will land you on a "needs strengthening" list by the BP.

There is no middle ground. You are either with the church 100% or you're against the Brethren.

That's funny, I have not attended 1 meeting in 19 months and as far as I know, I am not on "needs strengthening" list. No one even contacts me for anything.

TSCC shuns apostates, dear. No contact. U r poison to other members. Sorry.

I think you proved the point.

I agree, the history is not really a problem for investigators, it's more of a problem for those of us who were taught one thing and now are told we were never taught that.

But the cultural stuff can be a real shock. Yes, the mishies teach Word of Wisdom and Tithing. But then they are taught the concept of Eternal Families and not told that the conditions on that are complete avoidance of coffee and tea, an absolute full tithe of 10% of their income, consistent attendance at church, disposal of all their sleeveless clothing, at least for church attendance, consecration of a large amount of their time in church "volunteer" positions that they don't volunteer for but are assigned whether it's something they're interested in or not, expectations of taking their toilet-cleaning turns, realization that their family won't be able to attend their weddings, and, well, you know. Reality is very different from the feel-good movies with the sappy music that the missionaries show them.

That they will be expected to dedicate massive amounts of time and emotion on stupid tasks and if they falter or try to pare back on those dedications, they will be guilted and shamed

That if they have children they will be expected to accept strangers teach one's children to feel shame and misplace blame and not to mention, your kids will also sit in a room alone with a creepy dude in a suit who will proceed to ask personal questions of their child about what their child does with their own private parts. And be taught ridiculous counter-culture things about personal sexuality in general

That if you do anything outside of their strange seXual rules, you have to sit alone in a room and tell a wierd dude in a suit every excruciating detail of it
And if that wierd dude thinks it's really kinky, you will have to sit in another room and tell a group of strange men in suits and tell all them every excruciating detail again and then hear their opinion about it and wear a scarlet letter thereafter

JS had concubines, plural marriage (bigamy) was Never Legal in the U.S.

Same as in Mexico when BY moved his members to Utah in 1847..which was Mexican territory at the time. My SIL got after me for that one when I mentioned that it was never legal anywhere the "saints" resided.

--OR--

"As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from Purgatory springs..."

wait, that's been used before --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Tetzel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2017 01:55PM by anybody.

Temple Garments:
You can keep your boxer briefs for now, Brother...but ultimately, this church is going to tell you what kind of underwear you will have to wear for the rest of your life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2017 02:39PM by seeker221.

They don't tell the single women that they can't be sealed to their children without a man. Divorced and widowed women often join not knowing this little kid bit. They're shocked when they learn they can't be sealed to their own kids.

Women also can't get into the CS without a man as well! In fact I've been reading all about what Smith, Brigham and Kimball taught, how only a priesthood holding male could bring the women forth (resurrect them!) by calling their secret temple name. This was often their main 'selling point' for getting women to enter into polygamy with them.

As for them remembering all the secret names when they had more than dozens of wives? Simple solution, there are only a handful of secret names! That 'special' name just for you is shared (currently) by thousands of others! Maybe for Brigham all his (50 something,.. they certainly don't say he had THAT many if they admit to his having been a polygamist!) wives had the same name, that would certainly make it easier on him!

I'm surprised that 7 of the womens new names aren't the days of the week, and then 12 more the names of the Months.