Missionaries in my city, like many other cities,target the university campus, especially focussing on International ie Asian students. This really irks me and I hate them bragging about their success on missionary blogs.

A workmate's wife works in the student health centre and I sowed a seed by asking if she had problems arising from missionaries hassling newly arrived students.

He is Chinese and said " Funny you should ask that" and related how intimidated he felt as a student being harassed by them. Maybe he will spread the word via her to campus authorities.

I think it reprehensible for religious fanatics to prey on university students.

But university students are so much fun to prey on!

I think for public universities, it falls under free speech. My alma mater used to get a fundie bible thumper once a year. He would stand in the courtyard by the student union and preach. I remember the students passing by, laughing at his hellfire and brimstone pronouncements. My campus was and is very liberal, so he had his work cut out for him.

Perhaps "legally" Free Speech, but not ethically o.k. (me at least) to target developing minds when their focus should be their academic studies...

just sayin'

If you can't handle different ideas then for goodness sake do not go to college .Developing minds ???? WTF They are 19 to 23 year olds mostly not 3rd graders.Guess it's all part of the liberal wussyfication of university life these days

There's no reason university students must use their valuable time listening to proven cultists.

They have homework and college level reading to prepare for tests and they need every minute to learn legitimate material required to pass their courses.

Letting religious fanatics take over a campus is not conducive to intellectual development. Many of these mormon missionaries invade private spaces and put pressure on students to attend mormon or other activities. They use resources meant for students. The parents and taxpayers don't owe them preaching space.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's no reason university students must use
> their valuable time listening to proven cultists.

??? So university students have 'valuable time'? What about the rest of us???

> They have homework and college level reading to
> prepare for tests and they need every minute to
> learn legitimate material required to pass their
> courses.

Have you viewed required 'material' for most universities on the planet? I venture you'd hardly find it 'legitimate'. Should 'Lesbian Love Poetry', 'Black Lives Don't Matter - Oppression in Healthcare', 'Hinduism' and the like be considered 'legitimate material' for someone who doesn't want a gas bag missionary on campus?
>
> Letting religious fanatics take over a campus is
> not conducive to intellectual development.

So, on a campus of say, 34,000 students, a missionary can 'take over a campus'.

Please. Talk about 'intellectual development' (needed)...

A public university just like the government can regulate time place and manner but NOT content . Nobody is forcing anyone to listen to Mormons, Black Lives Matter ,College Republicans or Democrats etc .The First Amendment does not have a Mormon exception or any other exception for free speech.

In the US we have freedom of religion which includes freedom from religion.

In public places someone might start preaching to passer-bys. That doesn't mean anyone has to listen and there should always be alternate routes to avoid preachers if someone doesn't want to hear it. The "preachers" should never be allowed in dining rooms, dorms, or areas set aside for dorm mates and their private conversations.

It's like our homes being our castles. Do missionaries have a right to preach in the streets? yes. That doesn't mean they have a right to preach in my home, yard, or front porch. I own those, they don't.

Looks like you missed the part about government or in this case the administration of a public university being legally able to regulate time , place and manner . Content as long as it is peaceful and does not directly interfere with the learning environment can never be regulated . I happen to think the First Amendment is the most important part of our cival rights

You expect everyone to limit their other rights because you have your personal favorite. How quaint.

I'm not the person wanting to limit free speech because I disagree with the content All groups and individuals have the right to public speech as long as it is done in a peaceful manner following whatever permits or guidelines are set by the government .The only favorite I have are people who want to use their First Amendment rights in public without any exceptions as what the content of that speech is. I may or may not agree with the content but who are you or I to restrict that speech.

Students who live on campus should have the same rights I do. The Bill of Rights does not force anyone to listen to speech. It only gives people the right to express themselves. Listening is up to the individual.

Agreed. Come to think about it the First Amendment is my favorite .It it what separates the USA from dictatorships where these freedoms are severely limited or non existent .Speech on college campuses is under attack.Students wanting speech codes,professors being sanctioned for unpopular ideas,people who disinvited speakers from both the right and the left of the political spectrum, suppression of "offensive " speech. The list goes on.I thought college was a place to hear many ideas and to develop the ability to reject bad ideas through fact . not to suppress ideas that don't always make us feel warm and fuzzy

Freedom of speech being one of them.

And no one has that right if they are visiting inside my home. Nor can they carry a gun or do other activities covered in The Bill of Rights. They do have the option of leaving my house if they don't want to follow my rules.

Never once said anything about private property rights and your right to have who you want or don't want on your property.The discussion was about free speech on a public college campus . Goes without saying really that private property is vastly different than public property supported by our taxes

They pay for the privilege of living in dorms and using campus facilities.

Just like I paid for my home, yard and private road.

Never said or would say a college dorm would be a place for groups or individuals to exercise free speech rights. The usual place these things happen is a table set up by the student union or library and nobody can block access to and from these areas .Just because students pay tuition does not mean they can control everything on campus . I pay taxes to support any public university and that university is for all of us not just the students .I have every right to walk on the campus , go to the bookstore, the basketball game etc . Students are not in control of the entire public university and what goes on just because they pay tuition.

Those who have permits and follow the rules may participate. Taxpayer have no right to demand that facilities should be open for religious services or missionary efforts.

The reason taxpayers help with educational facilities is NOT to spread religion. It's to provide for students to be educated. Forced religion is not allowed for in the Bill of Rights.

Public buildings have specific purposes. Some of them are for education. Some are for legislation. Some are for routine paperwork for recording deeds, taxes or other data. Just because tax payers finance a building or space does not mean anyone can use it for whatever agenda suits them.

Students on campuses have a right to avoid religious ranting. If certain days and spaces are given over to it, students should have ways to avoid it. The entryways to their classes, dorms, and study areas should not be blocked by outsiders who might or might not be citizens who put money into the general tax fund.

We pay for roads, fire houses and police stations as well, but none of us would be allowed to impede what those facilities do for the community.

Once again the government can regulate time place and manner but not content . public Universities are just that -Public . People ,students or not have right to free speech as long as they get the proper permit and it does not matter what the function of a public building is as Long as people exercising free speech do not interfere with that purpose . Setting up a table by the student union hardly interferes with the educational process and nobody is forcing anything on anyone . As student can walk by,argue with them or many other choices. This idea that something is being "forced" seems to be utter nonsense .

A person does not need to be a citizen to have free speech rights. legal resident aliens can protest just like citizens if they so choose .They may not vote , sit on a jury or legally purchase a gun. There are restrictions but none under the First Amendment.

If they block the path or doorway, the interaction is forced.

I have already stated that blocking someone should not be allowed .When I went to college if some preacher type person tried block my way I would ask them to let me through . if they did not I would tell the to screw off and they have about 10 seconds age to get the eph out of my way or they would be the one who would be bleeding

define "liberal"

I believe to proselyte on publicly funded campus they still need a permit to do so, and be assigned a place to be (and told where not to proselyte).

Right. At my alma mater, they could proselytize on the square outside of the student union, or they could get a table inside of the union (on selected days, I think,) like other student groups.

They were absolutely *not* allowed inside student dorms to proselytize to students. Nor would they have been tolerated inside any of the campus buildings dedicated to instruction, health care, the library, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2017 09:07AM by summer.

I remember when I lived at a dorm at a Utah college. The missionaries weren't allowed in the building unless they were invited. But they were always invited in by somebody

I think Dracula operates under the same regime: somebody has to invite him in.

There are some major universities within the bounds of the mission I live in. When I encounter missionaries, I often ask them what areas they've been in. When they mention an area that includes a university, I ask how successful they've been there. They often say that they've had more success converting college students than they've had making converts in other parts of the mission. Interesting, because one would think that college students would be more analytical in their investigations of things like the Book of Mormon, and less inclined to rely solely on feelings from the Spirit.

A lot of students are away from home for the first time, and this leaves them feeling more vulnerable. Plus, they are trying to find themselves and define who they are. Some will convert, but many will try it out for a while and then move on.

I think a number of religions do this.

They invite college students who are defining what it is they actually believe while first outside the confines of their home and daily parental oversight/influence to activities and church services. If there was no religion in the home, if they were doubters of their parents' religion and they are approached in the right way they may be converted.

I hope in the case of Mormonism they take advantage of the widely available internet access at most schools and thoroughly check them out. But they may be influenced by a Mormon missionary's charisma and/or appearance.

Yes ^^^ I'm glad someone finally mentioned this. Mormons convert mainly by emotional manipulation. (Cultism is not 2+2 logic, you know.) Many of these students are away from home for the first time. They are lonely and homesick. Also, they don't have family around to protect them from scammers. There's a name for these young, vulnerable students:

"Golden Prospects."

As a missionary I approached university students in France. I was stunned at how little help they receive in the way of counseling and career exploration. Almost every kid was in the same couple of majors because it's what their parents told them to major in. I started talking with these students about other job opportunities available to them and didn't do much converting to Mormonism. It wasn't what this group needed. Needless to say, I was an unsuccessful missionary. I converted nobody. But I did go back to the USA with a revised plan for my own career. I became a counselor. It has been very rewarding. And a few of the people I have counseled were Mormon. I let them know that it is okay to think for yourself rather than let tscc do it for them. Just that permission to stop putting LDS, Inc. first took a lot of pressure off those anxious kids. I may have been a failed missionary but I believe I'm living a much more rewarding life than Mormon indoctrinating could ever give me. I just wish that the Mormon general authorities would come to the same conclusion but then I do not measure success/reward with money.

Very nicely said, Pooped. Good for you.

What does ^^^ mean? Or ^ or ^^ or ~ ~ ~?

The circumflex a.k.a. "carrot" (^) is used here to point to the post above. The sign is also used in editing to indicate that something needs to be inserted, and in phonics/pronunciation guides to indicate certain sounds.

The tilde (~) is a mark that is used in the Spanish language. I often use it to indicate "about" i.e. ~70, or about 70. Sometimes people use a bunch of them in a row to indicate a paragraph break.

There are probably other uses for both signs.

Librarians have always been very diacritical of me.

I teach at a university. Mormons (missionaries or otherwise) do not stand up and give speeches on campus or try to hand out reading material to passing students. While they might have a right to do so (free speech), they've learned it's not effective.

What they do is approach individual students in public spaces like cafes, study areas, the library, etc. -- and then start one-on-one conversations. I've overheard many of these conversations while having lunch, waiting to meet with a student, or grabbing a quick coffee. Mormons do target the international students and typically invite them to events held at the nearby Institute (free movies, free lunch, free activities). Some of the conversations have a hard-sell approach; I was uncomfortable for the non-Mormons involved.

At least on our campus, international students quickly learn what's going on and are pretty good at saying no.

They stopped every person entering the library and sometimes the Student Union Building and others. They aggressively handed out "invitations" and "information pamphlets." I was too shy to refuse and had trouble telling them to back off and leave me alone. Students don't deserve that kind of treatment. I am a taxpayer just like others who claim that they have a "right" to preach on campuses because part of their taxes help pay for them. Most of us who pay taxes are glad to help with educational funding but not forced religious ranting and aggressive campaigning for members.

That is really horrible that religious proselytizers aggressively stopped people and blocked their path. That is something that university administrators should definitely have addressed. It would not have been allowed at my alma mater.

Learning of different faiths is important, period. Where I went, we even studied ancient works, even mythology, though our import was on science. If one is to push out those of various religions, the students will never understand where other people are coming from.

Forcing students to go through mazes of religious practitioners to get to class is not helping them learn what they need to know about religions.