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Posted by: EssexExMo ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 07:12AM

I saw it mentioned in 'Brigantia's' post and have heard it once or twice before.

Even as a TBM, I always thought it was a moronic idea

where does it come from? is it scriptural? somewhere in the PoGP? D&C? or is it one of the non-scriptural thoughts of one of the profits?

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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 07:25AM


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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 07:33AM

And Joe got scared silly. But he couldn't just admit that he was scared and get out of the canoe trip gracefully without looking like a gutless pantywaist sissy. So he did what he did best in tough situations, he pretended to get a revelation from God, in which God told him to do exactly what he really wanted to do all along--kinda like all those revelations in which God told him that he was obligated to take underaged girls as his spiritual wives and have sex with them. Or sort of like when God commanded other people to give Joe valuable real estate.


http://www.lds.net/forums/scripture-study-forum/33988-august-12-1831-d-c-61-received.html

"After leaving Independence, Missouri, on 9 August 1831, the Prophet and his party traveled down the Missouri River to Fort Osage, where they spent the first night. Two days later (11 August) an accident occurred: The canoe in which the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon were riding ran into a tree lodged and bobbing in the river."

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Posted by: rogertheshrubber ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 08:40AM

would he say that Lucifer rules the road?

Of course, anyone who has driven on 15 in Utah knows that the drivers there are possessed with SOMETHING!

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Posted by: Thread Killer ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 02:58PM

Actually, I think there's a mormon legend of JS saving a careening coach & passengers from crashing by leaping on to the runaway horses or some such. Joseph Smith, he's just soooo dreamy...

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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 07:43PM

JS, retelling the account: "So there we were standing by the roadside contemplating the mysteries of God, when a runaway carriage full of infants came into view. No one held the reins and the horses were dashing toward a steep bluff that would certainly carry them, the carriage and the helpless infants into the swirling rapids of the river far below. I knew I had to act, for my companions were obviously petrified with fear and inaction. There was little chance for success, and if I failed I would be hurled over the bluff and into the icy river currents along with the innocent wide-eyed children. In such case, certain death surely did await. No sooner did I resolve to attempt the rescue without any regard to my personal safety than the voice of God came clearly to me, saying: 'Behold, I am well pleased in you, my servant, for you have shown the unselfish love of a true son of God and you will be rewarded with many mansions--one of which shall be named Nauvoo Mansion. But stay your hand and do not act to rescue the carriage and its infantile passengery at this time--for it is meet that some things run their course.'

"So there I stood, frozen in obedience to God, though every fiber of my being cried out for action to save the children. As I watched the carriage race by, I knew they were headed for certain destruction. But I could not fail to heed a commandment from God.

"But God was with us in all things and shortly before the moment of certain destruction, the horses came gently to a stop and began munching on apples that miraculously appeared to be strewn about the ground in the patch of land at the edge of the bluff. And I knew that God had tested my obedience and I had won the day."

Yep, it probably would have gone something like that, if Joe Smith was involved. ;o)

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Posted by: helemon ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 10:36PM

"Many phenomena — wars, plagues, sudden audits — have been advanced as evidence for the hidden hand of Satan in the affairs of Man, but whenever students of demonology get together the M25 London orbital motorway is generally agreed to be among the top contenders for Exhibit A."-Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch (1990) is a comedic novel by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett,

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Posted by: EssexExMo ( )
Date: May 31, 2011 06:52AM

I am a big Terry Pratchett fan and also a big Neil Gaiman fan.

I am also, frequently a user of the M25

If it wasn't directly designed by satan, it was certainly one of his spawn

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Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 07:44AM

IF Satan did control those waters he never would have let any harm befall Joseph Smith, because Joe is one of biggest human kingpins to Satan's work and one of the most EVIL ppl who ever lived!

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Posted by: michaelc1945 ( )
Date: June 20, 2015 07:57AM

Further proof of the craftiness of the Evil One. He stages this incident to further the lie about JS being a prophet protected by God against the snares of Satan trying to destroy him when the Devil had already accomplished that at an earlier time.

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 07:58AM

Neither did it 'supposedly' stop the Jaredites and Nephites crossing vast oceans to discover the promised land.

The mind boggles.

Briggy

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Posted by: brett ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 12:25PM

brigantia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neither did it 'supposedly' stop the Jaredites and
> Nephites crossing vast oceans to discover the
> promised land.
>
> That's an excellent point. As a missionary, we were forbidden to go swimming due to Satan having power over water. (a rule that's still in effect as far as I know). However, this is a rule that only applies if you are a missionary. In other words, Satan doesn't care enough about "regular" mormons to bother killing them if they put their foot in a pool of water.

I wonder if there's a ban on GA's have swimming pools? Seems like they'd be prime targets also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 12:26PM by brett.

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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 09:46AM

This was reported by Ezra Booth, a member of the party in a letter to Mr. Partridge on September 20, 1831. Quotes from the letter follow:

>No accident, however, befel them, until Joseph, in the afternoon of the third day, assumed the direction of affairs on board that canoe, which, with other matters of difference, together with Oliver's curse, increased the irritation of the crew, who, in time of danger, refused to exert their physical powers, in consequence of which they ran foul of a sawyer, and were in danger of upsetting . This was sufficient to flutter the timid spirit of the Prophet and his scribe, who had accompanied him on board of that canoe, and like the sea-tossed mariner, when threatened with a watery grave, they unanimously desired to set their feet once more upon something more firm than a liquid surface; therefore, by the persuasion of Joseph, we landed before sunset, to pass the night upon the bank of the river.


>Oliver's denunciation was brought into view; his conduct and equipage were compared to "a fop of a sportsman;" he and Joseph were represented as highly imperious and quite dictatorial; and Joseph and Sidney were reprimanded for their excessive cowardice.


>The next morning Joseph manifested an aversion to risk his person any more upon the rough and angry current of the Missouri, and, in fact, upon any other river; and he again had recourse to his usual method, of freeing himself from the embarrassments of a former commandment, by obtaining another in opposition to it. A new commandment was issued, in which a great curse was pronounced against the waters: navigating them was to be attended with extreme danger; and all the saints, in general, were prohibited in journeying upon them, to the promised land.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 12:34PM

so, OF COURSE, no worthy LDS member would be in the boating industry, or Anything to do with water recreation!

What's all that Utah SNOW composed of? WATER!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 12:37PM by guynoirprivateeye.

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Posted by: roflmao ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 12:46PM

I wish they would give the lakes around here a break! I'll put up signs reminding them "danger, devil water!"

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 12:35PM


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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 12:54PM

just one chuckle... Not even a full-blown Laugh....
makes it worth-while!

'Loud Laughter' (?).... JUST WAIT!!

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Posted by: Drew90 ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 01:05PM

So everybody gets baptized in water that is ruled by satan. I guess mormons are actually satanists.

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Posted by: nalicea ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 01:08PM

That is what I was just thinking. lol

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 03:12PM

Like a lot of Mo 'doctrine', this is something that is a matter of Belief(s); it can neither be scientifically "proven" or dis-proven!...So, it's in the LDS 'safe zone', isn't it?

AS a practical matter, it's about a -10.

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Posted by: Topoidal ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 10:10PM


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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: May 31, 2011 12:19AM

I know he waterskis and has a pretty nice motorboat but I wouldn't say he was so good at it that he rules the waters...

Oh, wait. You aren't talking about DH's bishop are you? Geez, I always get so confused when someone mentions Satan in a thread....

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 31, 2011 02:17AM

From the Mormon God to the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith himself, 'tis true for those of you sailing the ocean blue: Water Kills The Wicked.

Read it here in Mormonism's foggy, soggy scriptures, the "Doctrine and Covenants," Section 61, verses 4-6, 14-20:

". . . [T]here are many dangers upon the waters, and more especially hereafter; For I, the Lord, have decreed in mine anger many destructions upon the waters; yea, and especially upon these waters. Nevertheless, all flesh is in mine hand, and he that is faithful among you shall not perish by the waters. . . . Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters. Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart. And, as I, the Lord, in the beginning cursed the land, even so in the last days have I blessed it, in its time, for the use of my saints, that they may partake the fatness thereof. And now I give unto you a commandment that what I say unto one I say unto all, that you shall forewarn your brethren concerning these waters, that they come not in journeying upon them, lest their faith fail and they are caught in snares; I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree. I, the Lord, was angry with you yesterday, but today mine anger is turned away. "


Trouble is that the above scriptures are so silly-soaked that even Mormon apostles have been unwilling to throw Elohim a lifeline to rescue such rib-tickling writ from ridicule.

Special Lifeguard for Christ, Neal A. Maxwell, in a question and answer session during a missionary zone conference, reportedly pooh-poohed the idea of God cursing the waters, in explaining why LDS missionaries weren't being allowed into the surf:

"[I]t [the ban on water sports by Mormon missionaries] has nothing to do with Satan having power over the waters, and everything to do with some [LDS missionaries] not knowing how to swim. It is just safer to cut out all water activities than to have [them] horsing around in water and perhaps having a missionary who was not a good swimmer get into trouble."

Also failing to invoke the God-revealed notion that Satan rules the waves is Mormon Church spokesman Scott Trotter, who doesn't say a lick about Lucifer lurking over the lakes:

"The [LDS] Church takes any necessary precautions to ensure the safety of its missionaries from natural disaster, public health threats or other potentially harmful situations. As a precaution, missionaries are advised not to swim during their missions."

Could it be that Joseph Smith, Mormonism's founder, had himself in the water floundered and thereafter received a "revelation" blaming his life-imperiling experience on the Devil?

In his diary entry of 11 August 1831, he records:

"On the 9th, in company with 10 Elders, I left Independence landing for Kirtland. We started down the river in canoes, and went the first day as far as Fort Osage, where we had an excellent wild turkey for supper.

"Nothing very important occurred till the third day, when many of the dangers so common upon the western waters, manifested themselves; and after we had encamped upon the bank of the river, at McIlwaine's Bend, Brother Phelps, in open vision by daylight, saw the destroyer in his most horrible power, ride upon the face of the waters; others heard the noise, but saw not the vision."

"The next morning after prayer, I received . . . [D&C 61]."

("History of the Church," vol. 1, pp. 202-03.)


What exactly occurred on that river trip that caused Joe to flip?

According to LDS Church historian B. H. Roberts, it may have come down to a wicked combination of in-fighting and slow-boating:

"During the three days upon the river some disagreements and ill feeling had developed among the brethren and explanations and reconciliations had become necessary; it had also been discovered that progress on their journey by the river in canoes was slow, and hence it became necessary for [them] to find a more expeditious means of travel than by the canoes.

"The greater part of the night at McIlwaine's Bend was devoted to these matters. The brethren became reconciled to each other, and those whose affairs more especially cried haste started overland the next morning for St. Louis, and the rest of the company continued the journey via the river."

("Comprehensive History of the Church," vol. 1, pp. 262-63)


Ezra Booth offers a similar explanation, recording that during an on-the-water hissy fit, the traveling party's watercraft nearly sunk and almost fatally dunked Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon.

Well, who'd-a-thunk?:

" . . . Booth related that on the morning of the departure from Independence, there was animosity and discord among the travelers. On the third day, some of the men became so disgruntled that they refused to use the paddles and some of the canoes nearly capsized. Joseph and Sydney's canoe hit a snag and turned over, nearly drowning the two men. Booth claimed the Smith and Rigdon were then very timid about entering the water again. Some of the other elders chastised Joseph and Sydney about their 'cowardice.'

Member of the Quorum of the Twelve Hyrum M. Smith and co-author Janne M. Sjodahl (who later became an editor for the LDS Church magazine the "Improvement Era") note on p. 366 of their faithfully oft-cited "Doctrine & Covenants Commentary" (a book first published in Liverpool, England, with Mormon Church approval) that, curiously enough, devout Mormons believed Lucifer only has limited jurisdiction over the water: meaning he controls natural water routes, but not artificially-constructed ones:

"There were several canals. Some took the travelers around the rapids in the large rivers; others connected navigable rivers. The instruction not to journey on the river did not include such artificial waterways."

Yet, as one thinker has taken note, this notion just won't float:

"Last I checked, . . . the drowning properties of water in an artificial waterway are exactly the same as those in a natural waterway. Though it may be more difficult for Satan to bring out the waverunners on a smaller artificial waterway."

("Why Can't LDS Mormon Missionaries Swim? Water, Water, Everywhere But Not a Drop to Swim In," and Annalise Shumway, "LDS Believe Satan Is Real, But the Stories Aren't Always," in "Salt Lake Tribune, " 2 July 2005")


Even today, faithful Mormons are convinced that Lucifer reigns supreme over the water and that, therefore, it is not advisable to risk a sink or swim.

Just ask self-described Mormon Answer Man "Gramps," who on his website declares:

" . . . [N]ot only is swimming prohibited [for Mormon missionaries], but also other activities that may be either dangerous or not within the spirit of their calling. Missionaries should be particularly circumspect about activities 'on the waters,' as there is indeed both scriptural and historic precedent for avoiding unnecessary exposure."

("Is Our World the Most Wicked? Does Satan Rule Water?, at "ask at: "Ask Gramps")


Indeed, according to so-called "Mormon physics" as outlined in modern-day Mormon scriptures, the Mormon God "has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers."

("Mormon Science and Space Doctrines")


Yet another faithful Mormon attempts to calm the waters of skepticism over LDS belief in Satan, Lord of the Surf, by assuring readers that water is really only dangerous if you are caught sinning while swimming.

One inquiring mind asked:

"My uncle told me when I was young and was allowed to swim by my parents but, my cousins weren't, it's because Lucifer had control over the water on Sunday or something like that. I seemed to be the only one in charge of the pool that day. I even looked around and the only one I saw in there was myself. My cousins looked sad because they couldn't swim too."

This LDS expounder of the eternal explains the doctrine of death by spiritually unsupervised drowning:

"Now, the important thing about this that many people miss is that we, as LDS, do not believe the water to be inherently evil or that swimming/bathing is dangerous.

"Instead, it is directly related to one's obedience to Heavenly Father and the Savior. If you are in the act of rebellion while in the water, you are more susceptible to Satan's power. But that goes pretty much at anytime. When you are disobedient to the commandments of God, you are more likely to be influenced/affected by Satan.

"Your uncle probably felt that swimming on Sunday was not keeping the Sabbath day holy. In that respect, he would be right to keep his children out of the water, as he would have felt for them to swim would be sinful and therefore placing them directly in Satan's path. He was not lying to his children, he was trying to protect them.

"As to whether or not swimming is breaking the Sabbath, you must decide for yourself. But I will leave with you a quote from Bruce R. McConkie that I think implies that it is breaking the Sabbath to swim that day:

"'Sunday being the Lord's Day, it is a day on which men should do the Lord's work, and do it exclusively. There should be no unnecessary work of a temporal nature, no recreation, no unnecessary travel, no joy riding and the like. The Sabbath is a day for affirmative spiritual worship, aside from which "though shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart." (D&C 59:13)'"

("Resolved Question: Mormons (LDS), Is It True That It Is Against the Rules to Go Swimming on Sunday? Why?")


In the end, Mormons should fervently and constantly remind themselves that in the eternal scheme of things, "the workings of Satan" can readily be detected in certain realms of reality, as explained thusly by one LDS missionary (accompanied by a beautiful audio backdrop of Mormon hymnal piano-playing):

" . . . [A]s we're all taught from our parents, Satan has control of three things: the water, flat tires and the Chinese."

("The Three Nephites," in "Elder Gandy: Mormon Missionary")



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 02:18AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Mormonicious ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 03:30PM

So, Like if Satan rules the water, does this mean my bathtub water is evil? How about my bottled water, is it evil too?

And is the fact that Satan rules the water the reason original Mormon Bastard Jesus commanded that wine be used for the Mormon sacrament?

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Posted by: jojo ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 03:35PM

The Bible also talks about the cursed waters:
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. (Rev 8: 8-11)

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 04:37PM

Satan wants to poison our water .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2bSL5VQgM

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 05:35PM

So why would the cult have chartered the ship Brooklyn to carry a shipload of Mormon families (including the Burr's) from NY to San Francisco back in the 19th century? Makes no sense...like every thing else Mormon.

Ron Burr

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Posted by: jojo ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 05:50PM

I remember this bit of Mormon folklore being confined to missionary work. Missionaries were to stay away from large bodies of water and not got swimming.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 09:57PM

Many TBMs believe this to be true.

A well-liked BP drowned in a river in Nor Cal. Satan was in full control of that river, but he overpowered Satan because HF really, really needed him in the CK.

Of course, the rest of the world believed it was a sorry event that a dumbass would dive head first into murky waters that always obscure giant rocks.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: June 19, 2015 10:08PM

I've seen these comments before, but I know many mormons who have boats and go boating, fishing, water skiing. This is in Utah so they don't seem too concerned, though they do have the priesthood.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: June 20, 2015 12:48AM

He not only rules the waters, but rules everything having to do with water, such as washing machines. ;)

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: June 20, 2015 12:49AM

Their church is unknown.

This causes them to not know, or trust, themselves very well.

Like many other LDSuperstitions, it's just another wives tale or fear tactic perhaps.

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