I hate it so much. It makes me angry.

I've done NOTHING but help my Ward out for years and years. I've accepted every calling (even in the crappy ones that no one else wanted). I speak in church. I give prayers. I played the piano/organ in sacrament. I did my home teaching faithfully and tried to make the lessons fun. I always accepted visits from my own home teachers and tried to be friendly even when I hated it. I volunteered to feed the missionaries. I went to seminary and institute as much as I could. I'm nothing but polite to my ward members.

And I get called a "Jack Mormon" just because I didn't go on a mission a few years ago. (Or a fence sitter. Or "prideful" and "hard-hearted.")

Do people not realize how hurtful that is? To be called unspiritual and lazy even though you've been trying to do the right thing all of your life and go the extra mile to participate in the Ward? I'm suddenly not valid in the eyes of my family, friends, and ward members just because I didn't go on a mission. I'm a "Jack Mormon."

I'll be honest, I didn't go because I wanted to go to college instead. It probably wasn't a good enough excuse, but it's not like I was off doing drugs or joining a gang instead of going on a mission.

I don't get it.

Sounds like a toxic situation.

Yeah it's been getting worse. I've been going through a silent "faith crisis" for a few months and their comments are making it even harder to navigate.

Hmmmm,
The definition of "Jack Mormon" and "fence sitter" has changed, then, since when I was a member.

Those terms, well at least "jack Mormon" was about those who were Mormon in name only. Didn't live the LDS life-style.

And by definition I wouldn't call you a fence sitter either. Sounds like you very much are LDS, just didn't go on a mission

Now THAT does carry it's own stigma, but the labels they are placing on you don't really work, or wouldn't have back in my LDS days

I'm sorry. No one has a right to judge you, but if I must, I judge you as intelligent in planning your future well.

You listened to "the calling" you had, and honored it. Anyone who claims that you should have done otherwise is not very faithful, themseves, cannot relate to that "knowing."

Many have gone, and deeply regretted it, even being a cause to leave. You have the strength and integrity to do what is right for you, and those are gifts.

Peace to you.

By not serving a mission you have not been completely programmed to be a perfect morg-bot.

I agree that when you said "jack mormon" I thought you were going to say you enjoy the occasional Jack Daniels with a cigar...

Being a fence-sitter was a badge of pride worn by our "Jack Mormon" professor in Boise, Idaho when I was an undergrad. He taught Political Science. A political scientist is independent, and hence, a fence-sitter. Only his term wasn't that.

We were "Mug Wumps." That was how he referred to himself and his students.

He was a lifelong "Jack Mormon." That didn't bother him a bit. But then he wasn't as active (anywhere near,) as you are.

Jack Mormon does sound derogatory especially if it isn't a name you like to be associated with.

Let your family know you are not, nor have you ever been a Jack Mormon. If they continue to label you thus, then ignore them. That's pretty silly isn't it?

If you don't mind being a "Mug Wump" on the other hand, well that just means independent minded, and is meant as a compliment.

Mug Wump: Mug on one side of the fence and "Wump" on the other side of the fence. Sometimes that's not so bad.

They married their high school sweethearts right out of high school. They all have very happy marriages. Some of the better marriages I've seen in mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2018 06:07PM by cl2.

The reason you don't understand this is that it is insane.

We Exmormons complain about Mormon shunning, harassment, stalking us to try to coerce us to go back and start paying tithing again. The truth is, speaking for myself and my family--we are much happier now, and any pain the Mormons inflict upon us is minimal.

Honestly--The Mormons are meanest to their own members! That's a fact.

The main reason is that fear and other NEGATIVE tactics control people more effectively than do positive rewards

The first steps in brainwashing are to break people down, take away their self-esteem, make them feel that without the cult they are nothing.

It goes deeper than brainwashing. At its heart, Mormons is a cult of hate. I know from experience, that the Mormons will always find something to beat you over the head with. You will never be perfect enough.

Mormons dont care about you as a person. You are like a drone. (Especially if you can play the organ and piano for them)

I hope I didn't make you angry about the religious stuff.

Some good general advice about the social part: often the negative attitude towards you is not about YOU, but it is about THEM. Use your energy not on trying to understand,but on figuring out an effective way to respond. You might be happier if you protected yourself more, became more assertive, and set some personal boundaries.

Jealousy and competition with any group, makes things toxic. You can't do much about jealousy, except to give into it, make yourself fail, become less intelligent, become more dependent on the group--and you don't want to undermine yourself like that.

If you want to silence your critics, and stop them cold, just remind them Thomas S. Monsoon didn’t serve a mission either.

nolongercounted has an excellent point. Organize a list of the more popular apostles and GAs, and rattle off some names whenever people bring it up.

I notice people are writing the term, "Jack Mormon" -- two words, with the "J" also upper case. Is this correct, or at least the common way to write out the term?

And Andre, are you still active and believing in LDS? Nice to have you on the board. I'm curious about your situation in dating, courtship, and marriage, depending upon where you are in life. It has been frequently posted that--at BYU, especially--the upper echelon of desirable girls compete strongly for the RM. As a very-non-RM yourself, have you found yourself spurned by such "in crowd" girls?

Your fellow church members are using the terms "Jack Mormon" and "fence sitter" incorrectly.

If it's the ward members who are calling you names, I would stop doing nice things for these people. They do not appreciate your contributions and are in fact, treating you like a chump. No more organ/piano playing, callings, trying to meet your HT numbers, or entertaining church visitors. And if anyone asks, say, "I was called lazy for not going on a mission, so I decided to show you what lazy looks like."

As for family members, turn it around on them. Thomas Monson did not serve a mission, and I don't believe any of the current first presidency (Nelson, Oaks, Eyring) served a mission either. So if a relative calls you a "fence sitter," tell them that they must have considered Thomas Monson, et. al, fence sitters as well. Challenge them to "put up or shut up" -- publicly call out church leaders for not serving missions. If they are not willing to do that, they need to leave you alone as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2018 08:26PM by summer.

I agree with summer, but would change it up a little.

I would look directly at them aghast and say, “I am absolutely shocked that you would say such mean things about Thomas Monson, Russel, Oaks, Nelson, etc! And to think that you call yourself a Mormon! I thought you were better than that!”

By the way, you don't have to put up with any of this. If you are financially independent, you can just resign. You might be happier.

Andre Wrote:
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> I hate it so much. It makes me angry.
>

> I don't get it.

Sorry to be blunt here but:

1. There are worse things to be called. Like, 'temple worthy'. Think about it. The soul selling involved in acquiring that title is abomindable.

2. Why did you ever think you'd be approved by TSCC? What you signed up for was a moving target and conditional AT BEST.

If you're waking up or all the way woke, then tell 'em, 'Hey! TSCC! You don't know Jack!'

They don't call you those names to make you happy. They do it to make themselves feel superior.

I feel your pain literally. Similar story didn't go on a mission and was treated and seen as a piece a sh#t no matter what i did for the church. I went to college as well instead. I graduated high school at 17 and i wasn't going to just sit around.

You are far from being a Jack Mormon. I AM a Jack Mormon. LOL I drink wine in the evenings, and spend more Sundays than not having sex with my fiance rather than going to Church.

That, my friend, is the true definition of a Jack Mormon. For what it's worth, I think that you made the right decision. If you decide to go on a mission, you could still go. But don't let those idiots get the best of you. Hopefully, your family is supportive of you?

As a Mom, I'm sending a cyber hug your way.

I did not serve a mission either. But other than that, for years I was a picture perfect Mormon. I went weekly, dutifully did my callings, did my home teaching 100%, paid tithing, followed the WoW, etc. But not serving a mission made me far less in the eyes of the church members. What made it worse was I made the decision to go to college in Utah (USU). I could not get a date with an LDS girl to save my life, but I did find a few non-Utah girls who were not LDS who would date me (sadly I was still a TBM at the time and let a relationship with a great girl fizzle out because I felt I had to marry in the temple). Even 20 years after the fact, I had to answer questions as to why I did not serve a mission. Now, in my mid 40s, I am finally free of that "guilt".

Andre Wrote:
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> Do people not realize how hurtful that is?

Yes, yes they do. That's why they do it.

Don't worry that is the way the world works. Working your guts out in the Ward House counts for nothing compared to being buddy buddy with the SP or bishop. those who go on missions will soon find out that their "service" also counts for nothing compared to being a get along go along play along person

They are judging you by their rules. Judge yourself by your own. You are at a fork in the road. You can claim yourself and live your life on your terms guided by your own integrity, or you can jump through the hoops they are holding up for you.

Calling someone names is a form of control used by Judas Goats.