A very interesting development in the years long journey to wife's enlightenment.

About 4 years ago DW asked me to stop going to church with her. She did not like how angry it was making me, and how snarky my comments were about everything mormon.

We were having a random conversation yesterday and I said how much happier we were since I quit going to church. She informed me we are healthier, but she is not happier. She misses me sitting beside her.

I shared that the biggest mistake (and there have been some doozies!) that I ever made in our marriage was not being upfront with her when I first started the factual part of the journey out and not letting her discover all the crap with me. Because I didn't, and because of the way it came out, she dug in and hasn't budged since.

So I offered her a compromise. I would go and sit with her in Sacrament and in Sunday School, and I would not get angry, as long as we could discuss as a couple my issues with what was taught/preached that day with her in a clinical fashion. Facts with no emotion or bias.

She said we could give it a try. Since she has previously told me on several occasions that she did not want to know if the church is true or not, I see this as a huge step for her.

I have zero expectations(but do hope) she is going to quit going and She has zero expectation(and zero hope) of me ever believing in the church's message, she just wants me with her.

I am posting to get some different points of view than my own about doing this. Thanks.


BTW - My therapist has suggesting looking for a faith home together that is not mormon. Since the Jesus/Allah myths hold little appeal to me, and everything else seems like to much work, I don't know that it is reasonable.

The 'church' is a 'social organization' for her where she can 'dress up' ---- it is for my wife also.

They don't care if it is true or not why should it matter if the main point is to have 'friends' at the cost of doing some meaningless job. It also helps justify brain washing your kids, true or not.

I would not go waste my time going more than once or twice to attempt what your goal is.

In my mind it is a waste of time and will just make you wife cry to flood her mind with 'truth' which will just confuse her. I think eventually you will both get frustrated.

Just an opinion that may not work for everyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2018 11:27AM by spiritist.

spiritist Wrote:
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> The 'church' is a 'social organization' for her
> where she can 'dress up' ---- it is for my wife
> also.
>
> They don't care if it is true or not why should it
> matter if the main point is to have 'friends' at
> the cost of doing some meaningless job.

At the cost of "some meaningless job" you mean like a "meaningless gesture" which seems like it would be something to AVOID saying in conjunction with MORmONISM https://youtu.be/vfIxoKmK6O0

.....at the cost of some meaningless job? how about at the cost of 10 percent of your household's gross income.

It seems to me that MORmON women do not object to the severe and extreme financial drain of paying tithing because it seems to be a great indicator of how controllable and submissive that any MORmON man will be.

LD$ inc has its hoops out in front of the man. IF the man jumps through the LD$ inc hoops that are in front of him, then he will most likely keep on jumping when the woman puts her hoops out in front of the man.

The really incredible thing is that NO legit business concern would EVER submit to such predatory tactics, because 10 percent of gross income is the difference between having a profitable year and NO longer being in business in a couple of years.

LD$ inc does a Bernie Madoff every year, and they get away with it ....in the name of Jesus Christ.

From my association with single mostly due to divorce middle age MORmON women of the LD$ Inc singles programs, I am simply amazed at the longing of most MORmON women to get their hands on a man who they can then take back to their home ward to parade around at the MORmON dog and pony show known as MORmON church meetings. AS IF that will somehow redeem their status as MORmON women, with the other backstabbing MORmON women. AS IF their divorced from a prior marriage new husband stands any chance in the local priestDUD leadership derby, which is what the MORmON dog and pony show is ALL ABOUT.

When I was an active TBM divorced single mother, my handsome cousin actually offered to go to church, and sit with me--and I did consider taking him up on his offer--but I didn't want to be fake.

Later, I started dating one of "Utah's Most Eligible Bachelors", who was in my ward, and we sat together. He was a big tithe-payer. People started to gossip that we were going to get married. I was not surprised to find out that he was gay, and was probably using me as a cover, for business and social reasons. I didn't ever want to get married again, and we did have a great time at business parties and events. Our friendship did boost us up in the ward social ladder. We were both called to head the Regional LDS singles. After he died, I was once again sitting alone in the back row, with the other singles.

I was a TBM, married to my BYU boyfriend, and when he discovered the truth about Mormonism, he immediately told me. I was like your wife, and refused to read any "anti-Mormon literature", and was brainwashed into thinking that we needed The Church to help us raise our children. My husband's and my compromise was this:

He had a right to follow his personal Truth, and I would not pester him or preach at him. I would continue with church and my callings, and take our children to church, and he would not stand in our way. He would not pay one more dime of his money to the cult, but I would pay tithing out of my own earnings. We would not argue about religion, because we believed religion should not be an issue in a marriage.

My husband did NOT back down. He refused to go hear our children's talks or any of our musical performances. He was not active in cub scouts. He was active in the children's school, and was their soccer coach. We would do things together on weekends, and Sundays before and after church. Soon, church was less and less important to our family. Often, the children would make a fuss about leaving the beach or park, to go home and get dressed up and go to church in the afternoon. When they switched to morning meetings, it was worse. My kids had a paper route, and we would all fold the huge Sunday papers together, deliver them, then get donuts and coffee (husband had me drinking coffee by now) and eat them on the beach. On a beautiful Sunday, it was almost impossible--and inhumane--to force little boys into suits and onto a church pew. We could see the ocean from the front steps of the ward house.

This is just an example of how it happens. Slowly, gradually, naturally. My children and I started going to church with some Lutheran friends, and the kids sang in the choir. They had lovely Easter and Christmas services, which the Mormons did not have.

At the Mormon church, my husband was not there to give me "credibility" or social status. I became "the wife of an inactive." Men tried to flirt with me, because I was alone, and that was upsetting. Of course, we were no longer included in the Mormon couples social activities--in or out of church. Former Mormon "friends" no longer called me. This will happen to your wife, if you don't interfere!

Let nature take its course. Let the Mormons show their ugly underbelly. Let them marginalize your wife. Why are you trying to protect her from the Truth? The Truth is that most Mormons don't know the meaning of friendship. Love is not taught in the Mormon cult.

If you stand in, and act phony, your wife will continue to be phony, too, in order to have "friends" that maybe you really would not choose to be your friends.

Honesty is always best. I respected my husband standing by his new beliefs. I concentrated on volunteering in the children's schools, where I made real friends, and we worked on some good causes, and our children became friends, and my husband played golf with the husbands, and we had barbecues and beach parties, and we are still friends today. I don't have one Mormon friend, right now.

Don't get me started on what this will mean for your children. You don't want to leave them abandoned in an evil cult, without the protection of their father! That's like throwing them under the bus. Children deserve the Truth, so they can deal with real life. If your kids see you being phony, they will lose respect for you.

As a Mormon, you need someone to come out and flat-out tell you:

"It isn't good to lie!"

Mormons are cruel. I think it is a really nice thing for you to do to go sit with her. Myself, I'd limit it to SM. Having been a single mother and also a single until age 27, mormons look down on women who sit alone for whatever reason. I don't see it as a waste of time. Doing something loving for your spouse should never be a waste of time.

I hope she is willing to look into the realities.

cl2 Wrote:
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> Mormons are cruel.
...mormons look down on women who sit alone for whatever reason ...

......................

My poor friend caught her husband in the car with another woman.
She was served with divorce papers and immediately called to lead the singles group--for her, a calling of pure disgrace!!!

She took this husband back even though he told everyone the most gawd-awful detail of their sex life (use your imagination!) and said he'd go back to her "'cause she can get me outta debt." Debt that he incurred with a woman half her age.

She took him back in order to no longer sit alone.


(Did I mention he's in the bishopric now?)

I think your therapist is a bit out to lunch suggesting a different “faith home” that each of you can share.

But I do think your suggested compromise a good one.

I'd be the same as her (your wife).

My mom (Catholic) was the same with my dad (Jewish).

I remember the only time he went to mass with us. I was so happy. I remember it so vividly that I remember the texture of his coat. I was about 8 y/o.

Do you have kids?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2018 02:26PM by kathleen.

It sounds like it's worth a try as long as you have no expectations. The thing that sticks out as a positive for me is that at least she was truthful that she wouldn't want to know if the church isn't true. That means she's happy with it as her social club. Maybe the social club has lost a little of its allure now that she's probably treated as a second-class citizen with an inactive husband.

I no longer believe anyone who says "if the church isn't true I'd want to know." Like the holyprofit is going to announce it or something. If they would want to know, they'd try to at least look at both sides. Very few of them do. They read the essays or other church spin and say they know all about the issues. They DO NOT want to know. They are happy with the club and they don't want anything to upset that. And that's ok. If that changes, they might do some studying. If it doesn't, they're probably as happy as they can be. Just wish they'd be honest about it like your wife was and say they don't want to know, they only want to believe what they've been told to believe.

Thanks everyone. I am convinced if she had another social circle she was involved with she could let herself quit going without addressing the issues.

But I want her to confront and deal withthe fact we were lied to, and find a deeper peace, happiness and self love.

Man it’s hard though.

I think this is probably going to cause more strife and problems, because each of you is trying to change the other.

She wants to get you to go to LDS services with her. This isn't just to keep her company, although I am sure that Mormons can be cruel. If she is honest, she will probably tell you that she hopes that you miss the services and decide to go back to the LDS church.

You on the other hand are openly committed to converting her to leave the church.

I think that your wife was correct that you are probably healthier now than before. But you aren't going to find happiness by trying to change each other. You would have a lot more success learning to accept and respect each other's different beliefs than each trying to convert the other.

make it a game of addition rather than a game of subtraction
(because these things are now missing, its more than the church)

right now its all about experiences being subtracted one disagreed with philosophically being subtracted

possible partial subration list:

experience sitting together in social setting side by side (what can be added instead that is the same nuanced verb occurring)

experience singing side by side together with others in live music setting
(what can be added instead that is the same verb occurring with same or different variables?)

experience sitting side by side together listening to live small group and individual musical performance
(what can be added instead that is the same verb occurring for you to experience )

experience sitting publically with arms or hands engaged in stroking, being publically held, being publically stroked, or hair moved, publically massaged, publically hand held there are some Mormon postures that couples engage in tiny gestures or grand big gestures which may be affectionate and is not the same as in bed affection or in bed touching or passing by in the kitchen touching --
(what can be added instead that is the same verb, or sitting publically side by side setting same verb)

experience expressing shared gestures about others (clothing, health, expression, experience etc) privately seated or standing near one another in known social setting

experience listening to live speaker and commenting about delivery clothes posture or performance art, or opinion

experience gathering shared reference and going to the same chart or source (d&c # blah blah blah whatever) similar to 2 registered geologists going to a mohs scale or interpreting an oil drill through rock layers for tracking water soluble or layers in soil. something rock solid as a soil chart both reference regularly. Me, I've substitute AIR NOW website for 2.5 particulates its real to both my spouse and me and we reference it regularly. Not just one person referencing a chart (LDS Scriptural quote) while the other denigrates when sourcing a problem or planning to salvage a situation (much like prayer in the Mormon church frame of reference)
possible weight program both hooked on the same website (unusual I know, reaching for it here, seeking a shared frame of reference can only think of one couple where both are compulsive on a health program web site the same website, share phone calls buy services, quote author to each other in front of me lol this wouldn't be really positive, wouldn't be really pleasant to impose on the other either it has to be shared to match the shared value of a church scripture formerly shared authorized version of authority ;)
re problems, perhaps, earth quake charts in earth quake country if you both monitor frequently, shared cal fire data page fire updates, maybe a shared tornado or hurricane warning registry would serve an official accepted authorized authority shared 'chart' confidence for a couple, who cannot site the scriptures at each other?
charts, uh, directions, uh, oh ok , a massage book. For a while a massage book with pages of different types of massage was a shared authority giving directions both could believe & attempt might be possible. Maybe not. anyways.
well the experience, of a shared sited authorized memorized thing- chart- is a comfort which leaves a loss. I briefly substituted in a theasaurus didn't work. then I tried a multi volumn huge dictionary and explored terms, made it a sort of scrabble dictionary shared resource for afew years... then, five six years ago, got a ginormous history of art like two feet tall book or something hundreds thousands of pages glossy pictures very little text. Every page opened on art works and sculptures- put It on a podium on walk near entrance way (instead of scriptures.) Another story or photo to reference.
find a shared reference. make a shared reference. That is relevant to both of you- refer to for authorized reaction and problem solving or calming in the face of lifes problems. That you both agree is valid, a valid reference.


because with one active and other out- these experiencial sacrament meeting mormon couples verbs on couples engagement between spouses , are now no longer nouns the couple experiences together once one person is no longer attending-
these are past sacrament experiences for the couple.

in sacrament meeting are now missing. /that's all subtraction . How will you do the addition?