A bishop or stake president, who doesn't discipline a member appropriately, has the sin of that member on his head.

A close friend of mine was called as a mission president to a Caribbean Island in the 90's. He had a couple missionaries confess to having sex before their mission, and he told them to repent, but keep serving their mission. One missionary had a sexual encounter on his mission, and my friend the MP worked with him to keep him serving, he never sent the missionary home. This became news around the mission, and word eventually got out to SLC. Richard Scott was called and from there took control, and very quickly the mission president was excommunicated and sent home. The church was my friend's life, and he eventually was rebaptized, but he has never been the same since. He was confused and distraught and not even sure what he did, but was told the sin of the sinner was on his head.

When I was in a bishopric we had a widow, late sixties, come in after having sex with her boyfriend. She was crying, very sad, almost unresponsive. The bishop told us we needed to have a court of love but I told him I thought he could handle it by just counseling with her to avoid embarrassment and humiliation to her. He said that her sin was on his head if he didn't discipline her.

I told the bishop I wasn't available to attend the court of love so the ward clerk filled in for me. The ward clerk later told me that during the court of how probing the bishop was to this senior citizen, he asked intimate questions about her sexual encounter. The man she had sex with was her boyfriend, they had dated for a long time and became engaged, so she wasn't out for one-night stands. She was disfellowshipped, broke up with her fiancée, and became withdrawn and quiet from that point on. I think the bishop was abusive to this poor women, who should have never confessed in the first place.

So why isn't this "sin on the head of the leader" spoken of more? I think it is one of the top of reasons for such harsh punishment in the church. bishops think they will be going to hell if they don't punish. It is a sick and abusive law in the church that needs more light shed on it.

How many are familiar with this law of putting the sin on the Priesthood Leader?

She was also in her sixties, a big tithe payer, and a former RP. She lived with her nonmo boyfriend and the bish did nothing about the situation. Mishies visited the guy and he called himself a dry mormon for years. Not sure if they eventually baptized him. I am sure that there was no court or disciplinary action.

Please post your story here.

http://protectldschildren.org/share-your-story/

Very important story to tell. This is the real Mormon church and this us not an isolated incident. I have read other accounts of the Court of Love where the bishop asked invasively intimate questions and left the person being tried emotionally damaged.

This story is why I can't stomach those who say that even though hey don't believe the Mormon church is a good place to raise children, or it "works for them."

My Father was excommunicated while bishop. While I have no idea to this day why, I do know that the amount of time for Dad to get rebaptized was intentionally delayed by the stake president because the whole affair had "stained" the SP's hands.

I was later told by someone in the know that the SP had been completely unreasonable and an unnecessary harda$$.

Because of this POS stake president my family's life was turned upside down.

As a ward clerk I attended a Court of Love. It was three men against a woman. She was excommunicated. Her husband did the exact same thing and he was disfellowshipped. Just another thing that caused me to leave the church

Having left the church in 1983 I don't know if the bishops and SP's are still hardasses. Has the weakened nature of the church caused a less harsh attitude to take place?

went inactive with me and then he left, everyone wanted me to turn him in to the bishop and get him excommunicated. I said, "HELL NO." No matter what he put me through, there was no way I was letting them touch him. Then my BIL told me some years later that now my kids had turned 18 (10 years after he left), they could have him excommunicated. I was SHOCKED.

When I resigned. I had him resign, too.

It would have been more painful for me even as an exmormon if they excommunicated him.

I had no idea about it was on the leader's head. Ridiculous.

For the guy who is at BYU and just told his wife he doens't believe after skiing at Solitude Sunday, doubt he'll see this post, but THIS IS HOW IT IS when you do anything against the lds. They are VICIOUS. They want to break people. They certainly broke me. And all I did was fall in love with someone gay. Oh my hell. What they put me through. There is a really ugly underbelly of the lds church that you don't know about unless you run into a situation like being gay or "sinning."

Anyone starting to see that the church is very obsessed with sex!!! This whole religion was founded around sex, what with old Joe and his 33 wives. But he would deny it and only select men were able to practice it. Frankly, polygamy is one of the big things that made me leave the church. Its disgusting and amoral. And yet, many believe it is a higher law and what we will be living in the afterlife. What is holy about it? One man with multiple women is a sexual pervert's fantasy. The women don't want it, at least not many that i know. It breeds jealousy, back biting, insecurity and is unfulfilling for the women. Yet, we are to believe it's God's law and somehow our tiny human brains cant fully contemplate it? What? That is crazy talk!!

The church is fixated on sexuality, in a hush-hush manner. They don't want you to have it but when you do, they want the nitty, gritty dirty details. I bet half the men in the court of love were sporting chubbies while hearing about the details.

Ever wonder why there are so many men and women addicted to porn in the church?? becuase of suppressing your normal sexuality. When you suppress your natural, normal sexual desires, bad things happen. At some point the dam will break and unleash those desires. I think a lot of men, just like me, suppressed those feelings for awhile, but at some point you are going to touch yourself if you are not getting touched by someone else. Its normal, healthy and how we were designed. We are sexual creatures and yet somehow the church wants to pretend that we aren't.

I am still pissed how the church controlled my sexuality and shamed me for having normal sexual encounters in my life. The guilt was immense an often i felt like i was the worst person on the planet, all for having normal sexual development and sexual encounters with the opposite sex.

Bottom line is the church is wrong about sex on so many levels. Its immeasurable the amount of life long harm the church is doing to its members.

All their focus on when we were trying to "save" my gay boyfriend/husband was sex. It wasn't about anything spiritual. We had to get him turned on. He had just had sex with the wrong gender the first time, but if only he could have sex with a woman, he'd never go back. The attitude was that they would give anything to have sex with a woman any time, any place, so what was wrong with my boyfriend???? that he didn't want the same?

My SP fell under this hard-line approach. He was very heavy handed and the church went on a whirlwind if not a tornado-like fury to round up sinners. This was the 1980s and they went after the youth.

The SP made it known during stake conferences, youth conferences-firesides and stake PH meetings that immorality would have consequences. He also made it known that any PH leader that failed to act accordingly would have those sins upon their heads. During this period, the SP released a bunch of bishops and called a fleet of iron fist leaders. There were a lot of Thursday night Courts of Love at my stake center. It was made known that the stake center was off-limits. They even made a gerry-rigged sign that unofficially closed the family history center on that night.

One time my Mom and I needed to drop by the stake center on a Thursday evening. In the hallway, I observed a large group of members that looked to be fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. They were quietly sitting with an occasional sniff and sob. Nobody was smiling. We were there to drop off decorations for an upcoming ice cream social that was set for Saturday. We had our station wagon packed to the gills with painted props that supported our ward's scouting program. All we wanted to do was unload them from the car. The stake clerk stopped us as we about to make a second trip into the building. He told us that we had no business to be in the building. He flat out told us to leave. About this time, the grand emperor President Maytag wobbled into the foyer. He demanded to know why we were disregarding a PH order to vacate the building. My Mom stood up to him and told him that we would leave as soon as we had dropped off the stuff.

Before he could utter anything else she told him, "Not one more word. We'll be out of your precious building as soon as we unload the car. My son and I have 22 boxes to unload. You and anybody else that would like to help are more than welcome to assist us." He stepped back and proceeded to watch us toil away until the station wagon had been unloaded.

At the end of reign, the SP had disciplined many members. Even worse, he set up a precedent that many uber pious members expected future leaders to follow. I became aware of this when I had to endure ward council as the ward clerk. One Sunday, a showdown occurred between the BP and a ward member serving on the high council. The HC had been assigned as an observer (spy) for the stake. Yes, the HC prick had the audacity to call out and attack the BP for being too lenient. (He was pissed that the ward had sponsored a baby shower in the cultural hall for an unwed sister. This HC church policy loving guy had an axe to grind. He had not one, not two, but all 3 of his daughters had been ex-ed for sexual sins.) The BP just smiled and reminded him that he was not in charge. It was an unpleasant showdown to witness, but it illustrated how much power the church has over its members.

I *love* that your mom pulled out her mom tone,

"Not one more word."

and Captain AmerMoroni shut up and put his horn between his legs. :)

My SP Maytag was a dead ringer for the Hogan Heroes' character General Albert Hans Burkhalter. He was right and everyone else was wrong.

They give the mormon church the freedom to mistreat them and their families. Anyone who sees this happening needs to find a better church or at least speak up and say they object.

I'll WHIP you or BE WHIPPED.

LDS - Lost Dark Souls

Long...Dark...Shadows (LDS)

I've always thought the gender thing was abusive. Females in a little room with 3 men who think they have God's permission to ask intimate questions. They aren't even worthy enough to get the big guy (SP). The ward clerk can fill in. Good Grief!

Just another way ChurchCo shoots itself in the a$$.

These self-serving policies & rituals aren't on any leaders radar because they're so entrenched in the CULTure.

It's wonderful about Jesus taking the sins of the world upon himself, isn't it?


Wait. What?

You are so right; excellent point. It's just further evidence of how they disregard the creeds of Christianity, in favor of a sex-obsessed con man.

I went through one of the so called courts of love. Almost ten years ago. Had some very painful difficulties and for some reason believed that going back to church was purposeful. I knew that things in my life weren’t square with tscc, so I told my bishop everything. In a certain way it really was cathartic.

My bishop was a very, very decent man. Truly honorable. He wanted me to see the SP, because as a true believer that was the ‘right path.’ So I did. That man was a pompous ass!! Took me to court. He got me in front of a bunch of men and then asked me to tell them each and every wicked thing. If there wasn’t enough detail he would ask pointed questions that he already knew the answer to. Looking back I believe he enjoyed publicly punishing me.

My bishop was with me. While we waited outside for the sentence he looked at me with tears in his eyes. I could tell that the love court had ripped out part of his heart. He said that I was a braver man than he.

It was BRUTAL!! When I realized the fraud, I was so angry that I endured the torture of their love. Just damn mean. Love, my ass.

Just writing this brings back horrible anger. Time to work on that. Love? Not so much. Sorry if I jacked this thread. It just boiled over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2018 07:41AM by incognitotoday.

Sending love and positive vibes, incognito. Your buddy, edz

Thank you edz

A young person can be exxed for heavy petting and an old person is allowed to have a live-in sex playmate? Why? because the older person pays bigger tithes and has more sway?

So when my bishop decided that I should be punished for letting my filthy whore self get raped, which sin on his head was he avoiding exactly?

I learned a lot about this process and differences of administration when I went through it myself almost 8 years ago. I was TBM at the time so as far as I was concerned it was all very necessary. I believe differently now.

After confessing to my bishop what I considered to be pretty serious stuff, he indicated that it would need to be managed by the the Stake President (because I was an Elder and Temple Endowed). I was lucky in that both my Bishop and SP were very thoughtful men. They weren't hard liners and I do believe that ,at least within the LDS construct, they legitimately had my and my family's best interest in mind.

Despite this, I found the process to be very uncomfortable. I had to talk about deeply personal things in very explicit detail in front of 15 men, most of whom I did not know at all.

For those unfamiliar with the process, it goes like this:

1. You (and possibly spouse if married) - meet individually with the SP. SP gets as much detail as he believes is necessary to decide if a court needs to be convened. He asked about the "sin" in detail, asked about previous church service, mission service, etc., and state of family relations related to the "sin". He also talked to my wife to get her perspective and asked her opinion of what should be done to best help me.

2. Church court scheduled for a week or two later. During the interim I received a letter from the SP's office formally requesting me to attend a church court for "conduct unbecoming a member of the church" with specific dates and times.

3. Showed up for court with wife and Bishop - met with SP individually and with my wife again where he described the process to me. The high council was already convened in the next room.

4. Went out and waited to be brought into the high council room. Found out that during this time SP had been reminding the council of the process and their responsibilities.

5. Was invited in with my bishop. Of those on the high council I knew...there were some quickly regulated surprised looks at seeing me. The SP reiterated confidentiality requirements to them.

6. Once seated, SP laid out the details of my "sin" to the council based on what I had told him. The council then proceeded to ask me questions. Details about why, who, what I had done since and how I felt about it. I was tearful and "repentant" so I think they probably went easier on me than if I had been the opposite.

7. SP asked the bishop if he wanted to say anything. He said kind things on my behalf - emphasizing my "repentant" state.

8. We were then asked to leave the room while the council deliberated. There was one among them that I did consider my friend (from my ward), who had been a bishop before and was a very independent thinker. He later told me what had happened. They were divided in half, 6 asked to speak for the accused and 6 to not speak on my behalf / or for the church (prosecutors?). My friend was one speaking for and ultimately made the statement on my behalf when I came back into the room.

This is where I began to realize that this process depends on who is leading the group (hard liner vs. not). My friend told me that during the deliberations that some were focused on "mercy" and other tended to say things like - "well back in my day this would not have been let off that easy".

9. Once the council was finished deliberating, Stake Presidency retired to a different room to discuss / pray about the decision that would be made. We were ushered back to the waiting room.

10. After a good long while (45 min.) my wife, bishop and I were ushered back in. A few formalities were finished. My friend speaking for my side stated (almost a closing statement) that the process had been faithfully followed and that all sides had been heard. The guy speaking for "the church" made a similar statement.

11. SP pronounces the discipline decided on - in my case disfellowshipment. I was surprised, my bishop was surprised, my wife was surprised and I think a number of folks in the room were surprised.

12. Ended with me having to go around the room and get hugs and hand shakes from everyone in the room. I found this part probably the most uncomfortable. Most common thing I heard was "Good luck." But given that I didn't know most of them, I'm sure it was awkward for them as well.

I apologize for the length of this, but for those who are not familiar with the process, I think this is pretty standard based on what I read before and what I've read since.

My big learning - it all depends on who is in charge. If the guy's a hardliner you'll get that kind of treatment. If not, varying degrees of "love" are extended. The hardliners probably are more afraid of the sin falling on them.

Now that I know what I know....I just don't give a crap about any of it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2018 01:04PM by corallus.

Didn't mean to offend. I'm very sick, theologically speaking.

:-/

Thanks for the very accurate description, that is exactly the way it happens. It is abusive to the member who in most cases has already repented, and to some members I believe the court process causes a form of ptsd.

For all of those believing Mormons that are reading this, if you are considering going to a bishop to confess something--DON"T! Leave the church leaders out of your personal lives.

I remember reading a newspaper article during the aftermath of the Iraq war. It was about those who had been imprisoned and tortured by Saddam Hussein's secret police.

One of the torturers was asked why he had willingly inflicted such horrific pain on another human being. He replied that if he hadn't gone along and done it, he would have been arrested and tortured himself.

There isn't a nickel's worth of difference between Mormon God and Saddam Hussein, and TSCC is essentially Elohim's secret police.

The purpose of the Church is to walk around the battlefields of
life and pour salt onto the wounded.

I've also heard that (Christian) churches should be hospitals for sinners.

(In which case, assign me to intensive care!)

:+)