My brother and his wife scapegoated me unfairly tonight and I said that I had enough now and lost the plot completely. My anger was used against me as a "proof" for my badness and now I do not have any brother or wife anymore.. We split up.

They set me up as a bloody scapegoat and I had no chance at all.

That's what they do. They try their damnedest to make you angry; if they succeed, they blame you for becoming angry, and use it to act like self-righteous twits.

If you offend a mormon, it's your fault for offending. But if a mormon offends you, it's also your fault, this time for being offended. Mormons can never lose, it's the result of their stunted emotional growth.

They were holding you back anyway. Let them stew in their miserable, sour mormon juices as their own cult grinds them into pulp.

It is unfair and they do not want to listen. They want me the apologize!

After she and her family ditched our son's wedding after responding she would be there for no good reason. I found out on FB that she and her husband went to Vegas instead. A week or two after the event she messaged me with a few thinly-veiled excuses and actually said that it was a bad time for her DH to be away from work. I called her out on it by letting her know I knew both of them went to Vegas instead. I tried to be diplomatic about it but told her quite honestly that her excuses were better left unsaid, that if she had really wanted to be there she would have and her excuses all rung hollow.

The wedding was in the planning for almost a year and it was a formal, catered affair that was really a two-day event. Since they cancelled at the last minute, all-tolled we laid out a few thousand dollars on meals and other amenities that were wasted. They missed a fantastic day and it was their loss.

SIL replied that I was MEAN. That was her best defense. I realized that these people will NEVER be wrong.

When they explain their stupid beliefs and you become angry, their beliefs must be true because you’re under Satan’s power.

Hi 2 late 2 log in ( !

Had a extra thought around your post.

My reflection is this:

In their eyes whatever I do is wrong.

Then I react and imply they are not resonable holding that position. Because it is not reasonable flor adults to think that whatever people do they are always wrong.

Then they react that it is mean of me reacting and implying they are unreasonable.

My conclusion: Solipsism.

I guess I suffer from the same solipsism because I get into that trouble. Had to bump my post.

Damned if I do damned if I do not.

Got friends who do not put me into that kind of problems. We just chill and share our views and have a good tinme.

The only thing hurting is that it is family members. Other people can take a hike.

Hurting when it is family members causing the problems.

The whatever is that they are offended by reality. They want a one-way street. I was like that too.

Sorry for my bumpings. I have OCD in my head right now and just want everything out.

Emphasis on the stunted emotional growth and holding you back.

My mom does that same thing--poking and prodding until I get mad, so she can blame and label me a crabby person.

It only works as long as you respect the behavior and keep agreeing to go there.

munchybotazv2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Emphasis on the stunted emotional growth and
> holding you back.
>
> My mom does that same thing--poking and prodding
> until I get mad, so she can blame and label me a
> crabby person.
>
> It only works as long as you respect the behavior
> and keep agreeing to go there.


My mother does the same thing!

TSCC: Jr High for grownups.

I did som inappropiate comments.

I will say I am sorry but I will let the relationship go away.

It does not work.

Brainwashed people are infuriating! If I could say just one thing that I hope you'll believe, it's that it's totally their problem. You are not bad. Whatever you decide about the relationship, I hope you can see your way clear of that lie.

If you're really willing to let the relationship go, apologizing is not necessary.

An option, "I'm sorry our relationship has just ended. Please don't contact me."

It's inappropriate not to allow you to speak. I'm imagining that you lost your temper, tring to be heard, and received no respect for your point of view.

move on with your life and let them see how happy and good things are with you. That rips them the most. Nothing you say to them will matter only seeing you do well and happy or at Least not worse then now is what they can't stand. Just smile, wave and keep moving forward. As Smoky the bear says " Only you can prevent forest fires " so drown them with a great life.

If you ever decide to initiate contact once again, I would take your own beliefs off the table as a topic of discussion. "I'm glad the Mormon church works for you, and I wish you every happiness with it. It doesn't work for me, and I don't care to discuss it any further." If they can't handle that, there's not much you can do about it.

If they go with a "deceived by Satan" line, I would just tell them that you changed your mind about the church, and if they are going to engage in name-calling, you will need to hang up the phone or make your exit. Don't tolerate poor behavior.

As hard as it is to lose a relative, though this loss may be temporary, these people may have ultimately done you a favor.

Don't apologize. When the apology one wants to hear is not the one that's forthcoming, it comes across as passive-aggressive, anyway. I'm not blaming you or accusing YOU of being passive-aggressive; I'm merely saying this is how they will likely take the apology. Apologizing because "I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was trying to say" is often interpreted as 'I'm sorry you were offended," which is, even if it's true, essentially a non-apology. (I think I heard that on the way home from work one afternoon when I was driving my wife's car and had neglected to switch the station from her Josh Tesh radio programming. My wife and I have vastly different tastes in radio. She says it's one of the things that makes our marriage work. I say simply that her taste in radio programming sucks, though she's at least not listening to Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage.)

You owe your brother and sister-in-law no apology because you said or did nothing wrong. Your beliefs are your own. Sooner or later they'll almost certainly come around again because they'll need something from you. At that point, you can make the decision as to how much you wish to let them back into your life and on what terms. If the unlikely happens and they don't make it back into your circles, yes, it hurts, but you're better off without people who love you for how your worship and not for who you are and for your shared extended history.

I hope you have other relatives to help pick up the slack, but even if not, that's what friends are for. Friends are the family that you actually get to choose. Still, it' s tough to part ways, even temporarily, with someone who shared a large part of your childhood with you. I'm sorry and wish there were some way of making this easier for you.

Hang in there. I'm thinking of you and sending my best positive thoughts, prayers, and whatever works for you. I'm sure many others here are doing the same. While you may feel isolated, you're not alone in this, and at least the Tule fog isn't at its very worst.

I must keep reminding myself not to go back into that situation. Because the same process of psychological violence just keeps on going and going. I must break it now. It is time.

It takes some time to 'release the bonds' and that will make you feel less defensive. That will make it easier to be calm. Maybe also pick a couple of items that become a standard retorts. Mine were my personal ethics were in conflict (e.g., I won't lie). My mental health is better (give concrete example of something observable that has changed for you). I can't accept that a man like JS could be a prophet (say if you're testimony can handle it let's start by readinf the Polygamy in Navoo essay together point by point - convince me point by point.

Probably the biggest is to demand respect for you believe that you have for theirs. Tell people can look at same information and reach different conclusions.

And call them out on behavior. What they are doing is unkind to you. You are out in part because you see church policies as unkind. Release you inner 'humanist'. (Maybe read "Men Handcock's Handy Humanism Handbook" which is short and and will help you get a better mindset and framework within to formulate strategies - this helped me. On Amazon and like .99 kindle and 6.99 paperback.

https://www.amazon.com/Jen-Hancocks-Handy-Humanism-Handbook/dp/1463780656/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517063585&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Jen+Handcock%27s+handy+humanism

Many more things happened today. A big of the community turned their backs against me.

Now I know Jesus better.

Never felt more alive.

I am free.

That may be a part of the issue for many members of the LDS church. (For those here who deny the historic existence of Jesus, this post may be considered immaterial or even ofensive. Feel free to skip over it if you feel this way.) Despite the official name of their church, Mormons have little familiarity with Jesus. He isn't even really "Jesus" to them. He's "The Savior," "Christ," or "Even the Lord, Jesus Christ." And if Jesus was supposedly our brother, why are the fat cats in SLC presidents, elders, and seventies?

Those for whom Jesus is real (I'm not referring to those "JEEEEEE-zusss" people on the religious networks, but, rather, to those who try to take the very best of what they believe Jesus himself taught - to love others and to treat others as we would want to be treated, and to look out for the4 needs of the vulnerable in society who are unable to do so for themselves - and use it to better their lives) often emerge with a different outlook. I'm not suggesting that Jesus' way is by any means the only way to a righteous and benevolent outlook toward one's fellow human, but his way is one way.

I wish you luck.

They set "loved ones" up and rile them. If they object, the mormons say they're submitting to the devil or to mindless unnecessary anger. Mormons think this tactic is fair because they think they are in charge of unbelievers and are helping them return to the fold.

They may be doing the "shun/love bomb" cycle.

They go nasty and hateful, shun and exclude, then come back all soft and lovey-dovey. They take zero responsibility for the shunning, blaming the victim while trying to suck him or her back into cult-think. It's a narcissistic, highly emotional manipulative abuse.

Your freedom will be found in not taking that lovey-dovey call, text, email or knock on the door. No response at all. If the pattern holds, they'll even try to get to you through other family and friends with whom you have not cut contact.

If you don't know about gaslighting, please Google and read up. Btush up on methods that abusers use to put you on the defensive, and suck you back into a conversation. Your brother and sil are toxic.

They got what they wanted. I must remember that even if they will soon be uhappy again and want me back. If I turn back the same thing will likely happen again and again. I must live my life.

Awesome support! Thank you all!

I must be smart this time. Listen to myself for once. Stop turning back because the same thing seems to happen time after time. I must break this cycle.

Another idea. You can turn their own doctrine back on them.

3 Nephi 11:29 (quoting Mormony Jesus)
"For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another."

Point out that they, like Satan, are deliberately trying to make you angry (stir you to anger). Accuse THEM of being under the influence of Satan. Continue to accuse them as being Satanic, then boldly call them to repentance. Watch their eyes bug out and their faces turn red, then purple. Then use their anger as proof of their own inner darkness and walk out on them. Mic drop. And never give them what they want, an apology; this will only serve to validate them.

I testify with every fiber of my being that you will feel much better about yourself, having put your asinine relatives in their place.

This has been happening to me for years... Now I have fun with it because they keep coming back around eventually even when I thought I'd lost them permanently

I've found that sometimes it's actually good if I freak out and lose it because later on I can always reopen the conversation again by saying I want to talk about it and explain my feelings... They get trapped by emotions especially if I'm speaking with love for them & or relationship from the heart and being really personal about exactly why I feel the way I do about this or that

I keep it as "I " statements and I can say all kinds of things they normally wouldn't let me say... It's really funny because all of a sudden they're trapped into listening to all my issues against the Mormon church because I'm trying to explain why I freaked out... I've found that I can change all types of situations into a Mormon church rip session when I do this and it's so funny because they can't turn the tables on me like they used to do because I always come back with love for them... That's the most important thing, that I am always coming from the perspective that I love them so much & I want to work on & restore our relationship... Their faces are in shock when I do this to them but the funny thing is that it really has helped out relationships & it also stops their arrogant tactics

Just last week I was set up when one of them asked me what I thought of Joseph Smith & I said I thought he was a con artist... They got all offended but then I reopened the conversation later on and afterwards or relationship got better... It was so cool.. plus I could tell that he was actually processing what I said because he was forced to listen to my "i" statements that were against the church but FOR restoring our relationship with the love I was doing it with

It's not easy to do this but once you start getting the hang of it, it's totally fun because it's something they're not used to handling

They showed you how they really feel about you.

Now you know and you are free to do whatever you want.

You can not win with a mormon family i figured out. I won't even talk to them anymore because i know they will set me up in the conversation to get triggered and get mad and therefore i must be the devil and a crazy person so their beliefs are correct because of it. They made me a scapegoat but at the same time were praying for me. They are f#cked up in the head.

Things are really insane. It took me a long time to see how crazy this really is. On the surface everything looks so content and happy but this sacrifice goes on and on daily on many levels because these people seems to be ready to shit their pants every instant moment.

" - What on earth is going on!"

The most insane thing is that they also get triggered if I try to talk to them and make my point. "I am out of my mind speaking like that" :)

they're wrong.

Subtle strategies such as emphasizing any beauty any strength any powerful moment, any thing you explore beyond your Mormonism, seems to somehow belittle them as they are uninvolved with these joyous (that means you enjoy it not at the fresno temple in white robes again) joyous pursuits.

Its not succeeding to spite them, its succeeding perhaps not even despite them, but enjoying (that mmeans joy is for you) moments their Mormonism time commits deny them.

they will see genetic capacity for skills and participation in life they never get off the Mormon clock for. You can walk up half dome on Sunday this spring. You can take the commuter bus up from north fresno to Yosemite once a month and tour make a photo journal if you don't want to drive through the mountains. They can't they're busy with callings. Send them a text with a photo they'll know what their epitigentic heritage holds but they are participating. You be the way farer you be the wanderer you be the journey yours be the joy (that means enjoying it)

You can make a photo study of Kings Canyon, or go to the Monterey Bay acquarium over a weekend. You can go to arts shows in the tower district when they are doing ward visiting teaching again. Send them a pretty picture of the gallery in a text.

River park? Coffee shop in Barnes in Nobles you get a gift certificate on your cash register receipt when you buy a book, go sit down, at the litte table on the East side of the book stakes maybe your family has never been there done this, order something hot and good, sit and use everyone's certificate. Get it free. Find joy sipping a cup of a hot drink (that means enjoy it.)

boy did the Mormon scripture tear up the meaning of joy- all those hand cart companies, sweating in garments, I don't know waiting for heaven to be a plural wife What am I missing? Get out of bed to go to early church after working all week instead of snuggling in to read what is wrong with these people? Don't they ever get tired?

AH tired- they are whipped beat tired stressed distressed F over totally had it and someone noticed you might be getting the most fun in the entire gene line in Fresno. That's it. Serious serious not molly Mormon chick, you can make bread- serve it in Yosemite on Sunday mid day. You can cook and serve food- serve wine and coffee or chilled beers with Bar B q, you can have it all. Art shows definitely do an art show stroll the tower district during Sacrament Meeting for me. I'd have to drive. Send pictures. It'll sweat them in their seats gritting their teeth through another sacrament meeting talk that already was a waste of their time & they were only doing a service to the family of the speaker not wincing publically to hear them speak./ TEXXT AWay

Enjoy your life & best to you. don't hold back. Notice how life is beautiful. Show them. pictures. keep texting. That'll do it, they'll be more upset than cutting you off. See you don't respond to the any lines just send another photo of something good or beautiful or neat thing you do - even a link to an event, or like a dotted line path (like bread crumbs in Hansel and Grettal) for them to see, how it is done, joy (enjoyment) outside of Sacrament Meeting /life styled around Sacrament Meeting block on Sunday. This can be done.

When my age mate family member met a professional that works with me in the Fresno Mormon temple (thank God I didn't buy that house off of Shaw Ave despite the beautiful windows I'd have been so tied in), where my old relatives volunteer- they still have only kind things to say to me (like long years after my doctrinal declaration of independence) being in their X marriage sadly, noticing what they keep saying is "gee ____ie, you and ____y have "love at home" you're true friends. I wish I had what you guys have." And so they go the temple and sip their cup of guilt at Sacrament and worry in anguish over whatever commandment they can blame their failures or worries on.

Be the love- take your photos- send texts. That's my answer. & no its not perfect. there's still I've heard uh joint pain when you age apparently inevitably, hassle frustration bills occasional betrayal but there's music! Choose it.

/Best - painting

Awesome post! Thank you painting!

I will keep exploring life. :)

for 10 years except when my parents died and then she promptly threw me out of the family after my dad's death. She was executor by default. I had been asked first, but I was in the midst of a separation and not sure about what my "ex" would do at the time about taking my parents' farm, so I said no. All the other siblings said no for reasons and so she was executor. She knew I'd fight her.

So I made up with her a few years ago as my daughter was getting married. I saw her at TG and Christmas a year ago for the first time in 8 years. She then did some unforgivable things to my disabled brothers and we had to fight her with a lawyer.

NEVER AGAIN. I'm so done with her. She was always a problem, the bane of my existence my entire life (17 months older). I thought I missed her. I know I miss her kids, but they go along with her (though can't barely tolerate her).

I'm just so done. I would assume that if you look back over your life that this brother has always been a problem, as well as his wife. We were taught in mormonism we didn't have a right to be angry, so we put up with stuff like this. We thought we had to get along with family. WE DON'T.

I believe you will find you have a lot more peace if they aren't in your life.

Hi cl2

Yeah, agree.

I got to stay out of this crap. My life is not peaceful at the moment. Hoping for a better future.

But just like you things happened over the years and it is a battle that has been a part of life. Hard to shake off.