Didn't want to resurrect an old post but this is in reference to it.
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,71942,72222#msg-72222

The claim of lead smelting came from an NPR article several years ago. Here is a link to it.
https://www.npr.org/2011/01/03/132412112/the-prehistoric-treasure-in-the-fields-of-indiana

Here are quotes from that article:

"But there may be an even more remarkable discovery — one that could rewrite history books. Linderman says scientists are starting tests on what looks like evidence of lead smelting, a practice that, until now, was only seen in North America after the arrival of the French, 1,000 years after the Hopewell Tradition."

"Lead smelting is just one of the many questions archaeologists will be targeting in upcoming digs that they hope will clear up at least a few of the Mann Hopewell Site's — and American prehistory's — mysteries."

Some Mormons grabbed onto that NPR article and have claimed it is evidence for the Book of Mormon. But it is coming up on a decade now since that was written, what has come of the research?

I have spent a few hours digging around on the internet to see if there are any published articles or comments on Mormon blogs. Didn't have much luck but I did find something interesting in a recent Master's degree thesis. Here is the link.
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=kent1501510280333251&disposition=inline

In a nutshell, Sara researched burial objects from the Mann site and their intentional destruction before burial. The archaeologist term is "ceremonial killing". From what I read in her work, it is much more plausible that the lead pellets resulted from ceremonial burning of galena and really had nothing to do with smelting. This makes far more sense to me than ancient smelting, considering that the Hopewell did not use lead for artifacts. Copper was the metal of choice.

Richard the Bad, what are your thoughts? Have you got anything else on this subject of hints of Hopewell lead smelting?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2018 10:45PM by mikemitchell.

Lead has a relatively low melting point. It is nothing like making steel. Apples and oranges.

Oh, I know. But even with that, there really is no evidence of any kind of smelting in North America except for this NPR claim.

Mormons who say they have evidence don't care if it is just lead, that is all they need. Same for South America, where smelting really did occur. Mormons don't care that it wasn't iron. Dealing with those kind of Mormons is nothing like apples and oranges because they are bananas.

Ha ha ha!

I think... Monkeys love bananas!

LOL. The fruits of Mormonism make all kinds of crazy.

An old chimpanzee friend of mine loved onions.
http://kneb.com/regional-news/riverside-discovery-center-mourns-loss-of-chimpanzee/

Remember:
BoM is perfect;, it was written for US, today!

"steel" in the BoM, however, means Anything tscc says it does!!

just sayin'

Agreed. It is maddening trying to get anything meaningful from FAIR apologists or Heartlanders.

The Book of Mormon makes some very specific claims that simply are not supported by archaeological evidence.

Jaradites
Ether 10:23 And they did work in all manner of ore, and they did make gold, and silver, and iron, and brass, and all manner of metals; and they did dig it out of the earth; wherefore, they did cast up mighty heaps of earth to get ore, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of copper. And they did work all manner of fine work.

Nephi 588–559 B.C.
2 Ne. 5:15 And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.

They probably also think that if there's lead, then there's also steel. They just haven't found it yet.

Some Mormons even claim that God hides evidence so that we can live by faith. So yes, like you said. In their universe, lead smelting means that there could be steel too, but God hid that and left us with lead so we can have just enough evidence to keep our faith.

That kind of thinking made my head hurt and finally helped me to just send in my resignation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2018 05:31PM by mikemitchell.

I think Sara is on the right track. As others have noted, smelting requires a whole network of mines, furnaces, etc. Additionally, there are no finished lead products and/or artifacts. Nor, to my knowledge, do any pre-Columbian Native American skeletal remains show signs of lead poisoning. Lead poisoning leaves a distinct signature on bone and is commonly seen in populations where lead was used.

Thank you for your input.

"He who smelt it dealt it."

Moroni 8:31

As an engineer with both a BS and MS in metallurgy, I cringe when a Mormon or apologist can somehow compare lead smelting to steel making. Those are items in two totally different universes - in other words, they are completely unrelated processes. The sophistication to make steel is a marker of an advanced metallurgical society. Even if the steel products, such as swords, somehow magically disappeared, the evidence of mining iron - the required chemicals and the manufacturing of steel itself creates a significant amount of waste. The waste in volume and mass exceeds the steel produced. The waste and the evidence of mining do not fade away. The slag created in manufacturing, as an example, will last thousands of years. The Book of Mormon is pure fiction. The claimed metallurgy in the stories alone disproves the book.

Thanks Eric.

And having worked in the hot end of the last fully integrated steel mill west of the mississippi river, I can tell you that steel making is a quite involved process. There would be much evidence left behind if the nephites had steel.