This question has been an ongoing discussion between DH and I for the last few years and I'd love more opinions.

A bit of history...I'm an exmo, he's an inactive mo and we both drink. I drink more often than he does, consuming 1-2 glasses of wine or beer a week. He drinks only on special occasions and at events. I love the taste of alcohol and drink to savor the flavor while he drinks to enjoy the buzzed feeling. Neither of us ever get drunk and rarely are we hung over. We will be empty-nesters soon giving us more freedom. Post children I want to start collecting wines as well as learning more about them. This learning generally includes tasting/drinking.

I've been finding that a lot of the mo hangups with alcohol still persist for him which is why I'm posting here. I'd love to get your perspective & discuss what you think is "normal, healthy" drinking.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> n/t

That's my limit. i find it works quite well. I'm at least as healthy as my teetotaler Mormon relatives on that regimen.s

Good advise. I love good beer. Have to limit myself.

One thing non-alcoholics have trouble grasping is the amount of liquor an alcoholic consumes on a daily basis, or if a "periodic," the amount consumed on a bender...

I was a "middleweight" when I quit almost 40 years ago... At the time I was drinking nearly a fifth of hard liquor a day...

Moderation is the key (although the disease has an obvious genetic component); many ex-Mormons "go overboard" for a time but then scale back to roughly what you're drinking.

Have fun with my blessing....

I'm with Cabbie. The OP reflects moderation and a healthy pattern of drinking behavior.

HH =)

Up to two glasses of wine or beer a day is fine for most people. I would limit hard liquor to no more than one drink on an average day.

A little more every now and then is okay as well. When in doubt, consult your physician.

summer Wrote:
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> When in doubt, consult your physician.

That's the best answer.
For some people, no alcohol is healthy.
For others, several glasses a day is.

We're all different. Find out what's healthy for YOU, rather than go by somebody else's definition of "healthy." :)

You know that drinking is problematic when it is causing problems. That is the real answer.

If the drinking isn't causing personal, financial, social, professional, relationship or legal problems, you are probably okay.

Your current numbers seem quite moderate

those are rookie numbers OPie ~


step your game up ~.


/s

It's not uncommon, and well outside the boundaries of excessive drinking, for someone to have a drink or two after work then share a bottle of wine over dinner with another person. Daily. And that's on sort of an American scale. They drink a lot more in some other countries and still consider it "healthy" and normal.

You & your husband's consumption patterns identically match mine. DW has a few glasses a week and loves the flavor. I drink socially, no more than twice a month. I like the buzz and getting silly with friends. I don't drink with my wife as I am the designated driver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2018 08:27PM by chipace.

I have always been very careful about alcohol intake. I did the usual college idiot thing of getting blitzed out of my mind, and my body rewarded me with the hangover from hell, so I guess I have built-in protection.

I enjoy a Margarita with dinner if we go out, and occasionally something silly like a Pink Squirrel (many bartenders don't know how to make them - they are pink and foamy and have something called Creme de Noyeaux in them) or a Grasshopper. Those are just fun. But never, ever, more than one of anything.

I was grateful to find that I don't seem to have the urge to keep on drinking, so the occasional nip is just for fun.

If I feel like being serious, I'll order Glenfidditch. No frivolity there.

Actually, I don't drink more than once or twice a month. No need.

Healthy (physically) is no more than 2 drinks per day according to what I've read.

Problem drinking IMHO is when you make poor decisions that you otherwise would not make such as driving buzzed or drunk, or waking up regretting something you said or did that you would not have done without alcohol.

> I'd love to get your perspective & discuss what you think is "normal, healthy" drinking. >

It would be to view it as sacred - not secret - and to be imbibed and enjoyed and taken on occasion, and in moderation. Generally... and on occasion, indulge, like anything else, if you wanna.

If you not wanna, forget it.
And That's that!

M@t

Alcohol is a toxin. There is no healthy level of consumption of toxins.

You might get away with certain levels of toxicity, but doesn't mean it is healthy.

It's like asking what is a healthy level of smoking.

And as I've mentioned before, we spend billions in our country cleaning up pollution much less harmful than moderate drinking.

The Air Force near here contaminated a town's drinking water with fire retardant, at about 50 parts per trillion. Which is less than a drop in an Olympic size swimming pool. But we're spending millions providing bottled water and rerouting water systems, and cleaning up the pollution.

And funny watching people who drink and smoke going to get their free bottled water.

Then there are those who want a buzz using mind-altering substances. Which is the basis of our drug problem in our country. Not sure how you tell young people to avoid drugs, while the adults find it necessary to get buzzed. Why wait?

It is considered normal to need chemical alteration to enjoy life.

Um, water is a toxin. Salt is a toxin. There are healthy levels of consumption of some toxins, even required levels of consumption, like water and salt. Just because too much is harmful does not mean there is no safe amount.

Free Man Wrote:
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> Alcohol is a toxin. There is no healthy level
> of consumption of toxins.

Which is why everyone but teatottlers is dead.

My brother is a dry alcoholic. That is to say, he no longer drinks, and goes to his alcoholic groups every day of his life.

Prior to this, he took his first drink as a teen, as he felt he found more courage to talk to the girl next door.

He told me alcohol is far too dangerous to just be a once-a-day imbiber, or try drinking beer or wine instead, as these are just as toxic as any other liqueur. Only zero amount of alcohol will do.

The lady who lived next door to me (at that time), was a professional alcoholic counselor, and slowly became such, as she once ended up in jail, with no shoes on, and her hair half-dyed, and was kept their until she slept it off. She finally made it through a successful recovery. My family got together to get enough money to pay her for her services--and it was WELL WORTH it, as she sure knew what to do. He later told us, he had a gun, and was going to kill himself, or jump out his two-story window.

I appealed to her for help with my brother, to hold an "intervention" for him. So, all his close relatives gathered together to testify to him of the harm his drinking caused his family, so he couldn't claim that one of us knew he wasn't an alcoholic, and anyway, wasn't hurting anyone.

She told me how to arrange it (as a surprise visit), and prearranged to have him admitted to a veterans hospital for treatment and recuperation. It was a long process, but he, finally, successfully went through the program.

He told me it was far easier to quite smoking than drinking, and the hospital wouldn't take him unless he did. They weaned him slowly (to avoid the bends). Indeed, due to his smoking, they had to amputate one of his legs, below the knee.

Now, I am so proud of him for sticking to his alcoholics anonymize club(s). I also bought 'the blue book', to learn now to help him, and understand the condition better. TBB talks of the problem, and how to overcome, in several different ways, and basically tells people they need to seek a 'higher' power for help.

One is not allowed to sell this book, but only give it away, free (as I once informed a thrift store who had one for sale).

I hope this true story helps someone who likely is still kidding themselves, and claim that they have things under control.

So, as far as I am concerned, "O" amount--only--constitutes "healthy" alcohol consumption.

FWIW, some people decry the diversion of resources (land, ingredients, transport, etc.), that are. not available for nutritious crops...

Please don't get uppity about this, there is a valid point there, even if U don't agree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2018 10:26PM by GNPE.

Finishing upright

There is no simple answer to this question. The topic continues to take up several pages in the medical literature.

First, some statements are in order. The USDA defines unsafe drinking as that exceeding 14 standard drinks per week for men and 7 standard drinks a week for women. In addition consumption of greater than 4 drinks in a single day for a man or greater than 3 for a woman exceeds the safe amount. Besides the usually cited reasons for the gender difference (size, body water, muscle and fat proportions) the important difference is the variance in gastric alcohol dehydrogenase, an enzyme that facilitates the metabolism of ethyl alcohol. Men produce a greater amount of this enzyme so a greater proportion of alcohol is metabolized prior to absorption in men than women.

Second, the legal limit is limited in its relevance to driving laws and has no medical use.


A good 30,000 foot level perspective is to separate out two major disease categories and examine the effects of alcohol on each. There is no safe amount of alcohol consumption with respect to cancer—at least those cancers that show a link between alcohol and cancer such as GI tract cancers (all the way from mouth to anus), breast cancer and perhaps pancreatic cancer. However, it is worth mentioning that the data between zero and the daily drinking as defined above is a bit gray from the studies I have seen. There is a suggestion that with respect to cardiovascular disease there is a J shaped curve meaning that consuming alcohol at the USDA recommended levels offers a survival benefit over no consumption at all. There are conflicting data on this matter, however. Even if this were so, study authors do not recommend that teetotalers initiate drinking for a health benefit. What is generally recommended is for current drinkers to moderate their intake to no more than those cited above.

There is a lot more to say on this topic but this would get way too long. Of recent interest however is a French study suggesting that regular alcohol consumption was associated with the later development of dementia. More recently a study looking at nonogenerians suggested regular alcohol intake was as helpful to longevity as exercise.

To be transparent on any possible biases I may have I will disclose the following:

I am a physician and currently practice addiction medicine so I treat a lot of people who suffer with alcohol addiction.

I am an ex-Mormon.

Even after I left Mormonism I remained a teetotaler for many years. Now I enjoy a glass of wine or a Mojito on occasion. A glass of port with dessert is nice also. What is really good is a Canadian ice wine flight...but I digress, the major point being that I have chosen to take a calculated, but informed, risk. But I do that every time I get in my car as well.

Anything that won't show up on a breathlyser.