This is a very uneasy post for me. But I need to write about it. And since most people in the real world don't get this, I want to share it here. Today I was asked about why I'm so bitter towards the mormon church and its members. This is a great example...

If I was ever close to marriage while at BYU, it was with this boy. We met when I did my internship in Europe. He was a missionary. Nothing happened. We stayed friends after he returned back home and occasionally texted each other.Then I didn't see him for about 2 years.We randomly took a class together at BYU. This is when our friendship truly started. Soon I realized he was on my mind all day long, and before I could process those feelings, he told me he fell in love with me. Per BYU dating fashion, we became official shortly after. I shared it here couple of time, but I was a true nonbeliever before I even started BYU. I was stupid and went there, as my parents promised to pay for my education, only if I went to BYU. So I did... My experience was miserable, and partially it was the pressure. Once I was in a relationship, I felt another pressure. Pressure of being married. He was raised on the East Coast, so he wasn't really the typical Utah, BYU type. Even though, I told him that I really don't want to be like some of the BYU students (fast marriage), marriage talks still came up. It terrified me. I realized I was dating someone devoted to the mormon church. I knew I had only couple of options, such as pretending my whole life, raising children in church I don't believe, or admit that I don't believe right away and potentially lose him. I was really torn. I went back and forth, but then things got even more complicated...

After he got back from his mission, he was diagnosed with anti-immune disease. Things got pretty bad at one point, and his parents decided to put him through a treatment on the East Coast. Honestly, it was such a horrible time and I was so worried about him. We didn't break up, but understandably our love life wasn't his priority. We talked every day, then every other day...then twice a week. Again, understandable. Part of me was relieved that we didn't talk about the future or marriage. That's when I realized that no matter how much it hurts, no matter how much I love him, I don't want to live in a lie, I don't want to raise my kids in this faith. I flew to see him over a long weekend and I knew this was my chance to tell him. I told him how I felt about the church. I told him how much I loved him and how much I wanted to be with him, but I couldn't pretend anymore. He told me he cared about me and appreciated my honesty, but for him the church is the most important thing. It was a calm breakup. But at the same time I had to completely delete him from my life, otherwise I'd go crazy.

Now fast forward to summer 2017. My last semester at BYU. I attended a wedding reception of a former coworker. And there he is...my ex boyfriend. Even though I felt fully recovered from that break up and realized it was for the best, it hurt a little bit. We talked about our plans, I told him I was going to NYC for job. He said that his work sends him there often, and he suggested a lunch in New York.

He went to NYC last November and we had a lunch. It was really lovely and familiar. I noticed he looked the whole time he wanted to talk about something. I didn't pressure him tho. Then he calls me and long story short...he tells me about how he doesn't believe in JS, TBOM or anything really. I was in disbelief. He said he doesnt go to church and he wants to remove his name. He came to NYC in January and we had the best time. We got coffee, drinks, we watched "bad movies"...and we had sex. And that changed everything for me. My feelings came back, my love for him was back. I guess it never went away. After he left we talked to each other all the time. He even said he's going to put his transfer to new york in. I was so happy. It almost sounded like a story about "it was a bad timing, but eventually it all worked out." Well, almost...almost a happy story.

Once his parents found out their son was inactive and he kinda had a GF, the bullying started....His mom called me multiple times a day. Yes, I picked up. She said ugly things. She said I was the reason why her son abandoned the church, why he stopped wearing garments and why he is a sinner. My explanation didn't matter to her. She asked me to stay away from him. He tried telling her that I had nothing to do with it.

About a week later I get a text from him about his transfer being denied. Couple of days later he started acting pretty cold. He said nothing was going on, but I knew what I felt.

Fast forward to two days ago. I'm in SLC for a training. We went to a dinner and at the end he announced to me that the whole time he was wrong about his doubts. He wants to go back to church and repent. He admitted that there's a new girl. When him and I broke up, and he went back to BYU, he met this girl. They didn't date and she got married soon after. Now this girl is getting divorce and my ex and her are already dating. And he even admitted that they may get married soon. I was shocked. I didn't care about any of his excuses and apologies. But he said something interesting...he said that since she got married in the temple, they wouldn't be able to get married there now. they'll get married civilly, and he can still keep his "good name" and people won't ever find out about his inactive period. And he ended with "my mom was right that you're not the right person for me...I need someone who's active..."

So this is why I'm bitter towards the church. Yes, his mom is right. I'm not the right person for him. And he's one of the most dishonest people I know. Our problems started because of the church and they never went away because of the church. His family see me as this evil person. My family told me that I could have been married and with children, if I stayed in the church, so I created this problem on my own. I saw how happy he was WITHOUT the church. I heard him saying some bad stuff about mormons. I know he doesn't believe. But he probably realized the price he would pay.

So here's my story. Congratulations if you read the whole thing haha



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2018 01:40AM by goldrose.

You dodged a bullet. He wasn't strong enough to resist his mother and that was better learned sooner than later.

Also, do yourself a favor and don't ever put up with what his mother did to you ever again. She had no right to talk to you like that. Next time, hang up the phone quickly and block the person. Don't let in laws or future in laws treat you badly. They need to behave just like anyone else who wants to be in your life.

You're young and free. He isn't. It may not feel like a win now, but it will later on.

Yep you dodged a bullet with both the man-boy who can't stand up to his mommy, and with the mother who was going to dominate him and run your life and his if you had married this person.

You should be thanking your lucky stars that you found this out before you got more involved than you already were.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2018 01:08PM by jane.

Concur with what NeverMoJohn just said!

Mormonism certainly complicates things.

So he is willing to marry a divorced TBM girl and go back to church in order to please his parents and others.

He is selling his soul but he does not realize it just yet.It may be many years before he does.

I'm sorry to read this sad story.
Do the things that bring you happiness and treat yourself well.

It probably is, since there already is another woman involved.

No sense pining away over a guy who did not chose her when he could have.

Before long he'll have kids and a divorce will be too expensive then,even if he realizes he made a mistake.

Over. For sure.

Smart girl.

Goldrose, everything will be just fine. It's good to write things down like you did and organize your thoughts.

Now that you have graduated and are in your career, you have the perfect opportunity to take your time in getting married to the right man. It may be lonely at times until the right man comes along, but you will be much happier that you are going in a natural order.

I resent the life that I lead today due to the church forcing me to do everything in a backward manner. Everything has to happen too soon, at much too young an age in Mormonism. As a TBM I got married too young and had a honeymoon baby. Then I put off education because I had to work to support a family. It was only after I had $100K equity in my home that I sold my assets to go to university. And then I went back to renting. Needless to say, it has been chaotic for my children as I pursued education after four of them were born. Another two were born in school. Trouble persists today because my children couldn't lay down any roots.

Goldrose, the bed you make today you'll have to sleep in it for the rest of your life. There is no do-over. As much as it hurts to lose in the game of love, you'll get another crack at it! And you'll be much better off. Cheers.

Goldrose

Your story brought back memories of not being good enough for a bishop’s daughter...but now at probably 50 years your senior I can look thru the retrospectoscope and see how the iron rod of life has purposeful zig zags. We can cliche it to death- dodging a bullet, he wasn’t the right one for you (nor his family), too many fish in the sea.... but the pain will likely linger longer than you would like. Were you used? Unfortunately likely. But the good news...

You will meet, associate, randomly run accross a myriad number of men in thev future. One will stand out. He will have faults. Maybe school isn’t finished. Has family issues. All the frog princes have warts....But you’ll want him warts and all. The LDS Church was a complicating factor and something else will be this time. Now the beautiful part. You will be older, wiser and settling for things you cannot change sounds like a cop out. It isn’t. It’s love. God what a powerful force. You’ll dive in head first like most of us have. There is no other mechanism of welding lives, futures and hopes together. You will have have more happy days than sad or angry ones. It was and is the “ride if my life” and I truly wish this for you as well. Patience...

Gatorman

I read the whole story.
And I'm glad for two things...

One, that you (as nevermojohn said) dodged a bullet. Think how badly this would have gone if he'd given in to his mother *after* the two of you got married!

Two...that I didn't turn out like him. I almost did. I "left," and I was getting massive pressure from family to go back. And I almost gave in and became like your dishonest ex. I dodged a bullet too :)

I wish you the best in life and love.

As a guy, I was rooting for your ex to make it out and live happily ever after. It is extremely ironic that in his attempt at doing "the right thing" he is actually doing the worst thing.
Getting married on the rebound is such a major mistake... hopefully his other friends will shake some sense into him. It sounds like you are his only friend who truly cares about him. A lost soul.

Thank you all for your advice and kind words.

I know I'm young and I know I'll meet many people. I know this is a blessing. I actually don't know what bugs me the most about this situation. And no, I don't want him back. But right now it hurts.

10+ years from now, you will be happily married with children. One night you will wake up thinking about this guy and after a small chuckle will say, "I really dodged a bullet." FYI, I didn't dodge the bullet at your age.

One night she'll get a call from this jerk when he is in NYC and feeling horny.

He'll tell her he should have married HER.
But of course, he won't/can't afford to divorce his wife.
Not that this is stopping him from wanting to be a bad boy while he is travelling.

Some love affairs fall apart for a reason and it's usually for the best.

+1
I would bet on this situation. 10 years in, no sex, no love, no spare time, no money, and the knowledge that he could have avoided it all. My marring a nevermo was a good decision.

Yep, this will most likely happen.

I got married in my early 30's. I had 3 phone calls and one visit from ex boyfriends who regretted breaking up with me. Oh, puleeze spare me. A couple of those butt heads put me through hell.

The worst one was the guy who called me while he was in the hospital dying from prostate cancer. Karma. He was married with 3 kids. He was going to die at any time. He went on and about how wonderful I was and what a mistake he'd made. Then, oh yeah this is the kicker....he told me that he needed me to write a letter to the assholes in SLC because he couldn't be forgiven unless I did! A lot more to the story, but that's another time.

Just be ready for the call. It may be years, but it will happen.

I remember a boyfriend I met at about your age. He was probably the most handsome guy I've ever dated and he traveled widely. His job was interesting and he sought me out because he always attended Mormon church when he traveled for his job. I was TBM, living far from Utah, at the time and he was a bit older. He brought up a lot of questions about Mormonism even though he was living all the requirements to be worthy. It got serious and I was impressed that even though he lived pretty far from he, he kept in touch and even invited me out to see him. He knew a lot more about Mormonism than I did because he was born to it and I was a convert. I think my being a convert sort of appealed to him because he had so many criticisms about the church.

The relationship fizzled due to distance and he married a very naive, TBM girl. His marriage struggled because she did not like sex. He was calling me to complain about his sexless marriage and I told him to leave me alone and get a marriage counselor. They saw a counselor and worked out their problems but I don't think she is particularly healthy or a good fit for him.

This guy tracked me down at my job years later through the church when he was traveling and came to my office. I was teetering on resigning my membership but was just waiting until the right time because my boss was Mormon. During our conversation he made it pretty clear that he did not like being Mormon. He talked on and on and didn't give me a chance to say anything. Finally, he ended his dialog by saying that if he left the church it would be worse for him because of family issues and such. He stayed in and is still Mormon. I've never told him I left or was even having doubts.

Decades later, I looked up his facebook page recently. He has a picture of himself and did he ever get fat. I don't mean a little middle age spread. He doesn't even look much like the same guy. I could only tell it was him by his eyes. I didn't reach out to him, just looked at the photo and shook my head.

It's better to have a guy with "a Pair" than a weakling. You are lucky it didn't work out. You also won't miss the in-laws who would have made your life and marriage a living hell even if your guy had gone apostate.

I believe that the strength of character to live your life honestly makes a huge difference in how your life turns out. Go forth and feel happy. Don't waste your time hating Mormons. They are suffering enough for their delusion. Just be glad you learned a very important lesson without making a very big lifetime mistake.

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Decades later, I looked up his facebook page
> recently. He has a picture of himself and did he
> ever get fat. I don't mean a little middle age
> spread. He doesn't even look much like the same
> guy. I could only tell it was him by his eyes. I
> didn't reach out to him, just looked at the photo
> and shook my head.


Guess he finally found something in his life that makes him happy. :-D

Why do men die before their wives do? Because they want to.

Ran the generalities of this by the woman in my life of 42 years. As a word of caution she has no respect for the church. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. In fact it is a negative number. She is a transplant nurse, mother, grandmother, mother in law and has a Machiavellian frame of mind when it comes to the church. If you are of such her was her suggestion. I quote:

“ Find a pair or THE pair if panties that had to be removed for the dirty deed to be done. Send them to his mother with a letter describing how she fucked her son’s brains out after s night of drinking in New York City.”

She also added that the divorcee he is marrying got divorced because her ex left the church.

I was stunned

Gatorman

The best post of the week. I will be laughing for a while.

If your wife plays golf, I'd pay to come play her favorite course with her. I love straight talkers, and the comments they make during a round of golf.

She doesn’t play golf but I do..prior to an outing she will kiss my balls which makes my putter more effective.

The more I read about this kid’s mother the more I like my wife’s recommendation

Gatorman

What a prick and a mama's boy. Good riddance. He'll be miserable in his marriage. And you'll be able to find someone who's a better fit.

I'm sorry you got caught in the middle of your ex-boyfriend's struggle with his mother and his cult. I agree that you came out of that mess with flying colors! You seem to have a good grasp of what happened, and an good insight of the character of your ex and his TBM mother. Knowledge is power. I know it hurts, but your intelligence will prevail over your hurt feelings.

Interesting--your ex-boyfriend will NOT be getting a temple marriage! That will certainly upset his TBM mother! This is ironic!

My mother-in-law and my ex-husband fit into the same TBM category of your ex and his mother. I had been briefly temple-married to a con-man who beat me. The Mormon church would not grant me a temple divorce, even though my ex almost killed me, and put me in the hospital. There were many witnesses to the beatings--but the cult never set me free. When I married my second TBM husband, his mother was not nice to me, and accused me of still being in love with my first husband, and still WANTING to stay sealed to him. It was not my choice.

When my second husband became inactive, my MIL would call me every Sunday morning, and lecture me on how everything was my fault. She used to say, "It is up to the wife to provoke her husband to righteousness." Those exact words still ring in my ears.

I was blamed to everything that went wrong--everything--including all the times he cheated on me. He ended up leaving the church. Later, he abandoned me and our children. The TBM in-laws said that they weren't their real grandchildren, because they were not sealed to them in the temple. My ex left us in the middle a move, when we were temporarily staying at a cabin in the mountains, in the winter. I had no job, no money, no house. He told me over the phone, "I just don't want a family anymore." The next day, my ex MIL called and said, "I hope you don't expect any help from us."

This will probably happen to that divorced girl, if your ex marries her.

You can expect to get a drunk-dial call from your ex-boyfriend on New Year's Eve, in a few years. He will whine to you that he should have married YOU, and that he hates the church and that his mother and his wife are constantly pestering him to be a better Mormon, bla-bla. You will reply, "Sorry--I have to go, the babysitter is here, and my husband and I have tickets to a Broadway show tonight....Happy New Year, and you-made-your-bed-now-lie-in-it!"

Knowing his mom, I actually think she's very happy about this situation. She can now claim that her son didn't get married in the temple because of her being divorced. Not because of him and his own problems. When he told me about his "plan", it sounded like something him and his mom talked about.

His family has friends among many church leaders. I'm sure the girl will eventually get a temple divorce and they'll be married in the temple.

Definitely. My mother's prime concern was always "what will people think?" It didn't matter what the situation actually was, or how it was affecting anyone. All that mattered to her was what everyone else thought about it.

Reading between the lines, he’s probably hating life, at the moment. Didn’t Marie Osmond get married in the temple, after her divorce? She was married to a guy who appeared in one of the LDS films from the 70s. I know that there were other prominent members who remarried in the temple, after a divorce.
That’s one thing about the church, I didn’t like, different rules for different people. It happens with the dress code also.
He seemed happier being away in NY.

There are a lot more interesting guys out there than a mormon guy. I tended to date mostly nonmormons as mormons didn't ask me out much even if I was extremely devout. Seems a little too devout for their tastes. Nonmormons were wonderful to date. They treat women better.

+2 He's a boy, not a man. You're too woman for him! I know it hurts deeply, but you're better off without him.

A boy being controlled/influenced by an evil, heartless bitch of a mother. Let's be quite clear who the villian of this story is. I see the ex as a tragic hero who's misplaced loyalty to family has cost him all happiness in life.

To invoke a gender slur on the ex (calling him a boy and not a man) when the opposite gender (his mother and TBM fiancee) are actively trying to make his life miserable, is disingenuous in my opinion. Who is worse, the puppet or the puppeteer? A gender slur shows your insensitivity and bias.

I grew up with a Mom just who was very much like his Mom, so I know what I'm talking about. She never wanted me to grow up; always wanted to control me and my younger brother.

I'm not insensitive and gender-biased. I call it as it is.

What probably hurts the most goldrose is that your love was honest. He couldn't return the same thing to you because he wasn't willing to stand up for himself, nor to stand up for you. He sold you and his religious autonomy to apise others in his life. You had higher hopes for him and he failed to be true to himself. If you loved him that hurts. Figuring out what hurts you more (your loss or his), doesn't seem relevant because both hurt like hell. Be glad that you have yourself, since he doesn't really have anyone (even himself), unless you count his mommy who controls his life. That's probably not much consolalation either if you really loved him. There is probably no way to win this paradox. If you ever find a way, let me know how too. If you really loved him and see yourself as an honest person, you can't take it back. You learn to live with it, like a cripple person lives with an impaired limb. You learn to manage the pain and seek deeper levels of truth about what happened from your own heart over time, while not getting entirely over it.

Then you find someone else to love and your love for that person is just as real, except it can be very fulfilling and fill you with love that is returned every day, and lasts a lifetime. Then when you look back at your first love, you can add pity to the list of how that one makes you feel, and it's not that this pity carries with it, any satisfaction. You learn to acknowledge the truth of what happened, while not thinking about it (most of the time). Eventually, maybe you'll really feel in your heart that it was his loss, not yours, and that that's okay. Maybe then, you'll be able to forgive him and still feel love for him without also feeling the pain. At least that's a good thing to hope for.

goldrose,

In my experience, I'm left doubting you'll ever get over it and I'm 64.

You see that screen name I'm using? It's a pet name I used to use for her.

Of course she'll get over it. And quickly.

The guy is a wuss and his church is a fake.

All relationships have their ups and downs.
But Who, in this day and age, would go back and deliberately submerse himself in a cult whose claims are a proven fraud?

This guy is one sick puppy and he will reap the whirlwind, not to mention having his life and his money sucked out of him.

Mormonism never was happiness.

Agreed; but, she will never get completely over him; that simply comes with the territory.

Nope.
That's for shopgirls in ages past and other people who have no personal power.
Stewing forever in what might have been is self-defeating and counter productive.

If we all married every person we once thought we "loved" we'd all be bigamists multiple times over.

We meet many potential partners in life.
Dating/sexual relationships often show us who can and cannot be trusted for the long haul.

This dude was a potential partner, she tried him out, it did not work, she can find someone better- Hopefully someone who isn't hornswaggled by his mother and exploited by a cult.

Yeah, okay, go with that if you must; seems denial has worked well for you. At least, she’ll always have him as a handy reminder of why she prefers exmormon status.

What denial?
Stewing endlessly over an old love gone wrong is crazy and a waste of time & energy.

A wise woman/man realizes when it's time to move on.

I'm hurt, but like I said, I wouldn't take him back at this point. I'm sure I'll always remember the pain and how I was treated by him and the mother. I'm positive about the future.

I do have a pretty good social and work life, so I keep myself busy.

So sorry this happened to you, Goldrose. I know it hurts, but the speed with which he caved to family pressure, divested himself of you, and found a Mormon replacement (at BYU, no less!) to marry suggests that he didn't love you in the way you deserve, and that the church really is the most important thing to him (not his partner or the relationship). That's not the guy for you.

Think for a moment what the future with him would look like: a non-stop fest of guilt, pressure, blame, and shame from his parents, relatives, friends, and church leaders to Mormon-up or else. If you had kids, they'd be sucked into it, too.

I agree with other posters' predictions: at some future time, this (married) @$$hat is gonna drunk-text you when he's in NY, wanting to hook up. He'll cry, he'll protest that he should've stayed with you, and he claim he doesn't believe anymore but has to pretend for the sake of his family.

You deserve someone much better than this -- and you'll find him.

This supports my theory that the women are running the church, behind the scenes. Who needs the priesthood - just use shame and fear and threats.

Fascinating to me the church teaches free agency, but then you face being cut off from family if you choose freely. Essentially put a gun to your head so you are free to choose.

Yes, you should "be a man" and tell your mom to eat shit, but many can't.

BTW, have I ever heard the phrase, "be a woman" in such situations, when a female child is pressured? Where is the equality?