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Posted by: evileric ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 09:44AM

I wrote a letter several years ago to a person that I grew up with who is a stake patriarch and at the time I considered a very spiritual and knowledgeable person. I asked him about the Jaredite barges, how they were built and navigated and the purpose of the hole in the bottom of the boat. I spent a good part of my life at sea in the USNavy and I know a little bit about what it is like being at sea for as long as I have- especially what it is like going through a typhoon in the South China Sea. I also asked him about Joseph Smith's multiple marriages to under age women and to other men's wives. The following is what he wrote back to me:
"On the subject of the Pearl of Great Price, you need to go back and research it for yourself, for you have missed some very great pieces of information. That book and the Book of Mormon are the most accurate revelations given to anyone on the earth. There are more revealed of science than any book on the face of the earth, and they are not a copy of any other book, but you need to search it out for yourself. Get me a copy of these you speak of and I will show you their fallacies.
1. The barges were not dish shaped, but like a giant banana, having both peaked ends, with a hole in the top and one in the bottom. The hole in the bottom is to drop out the animal manure, and take in salt water, which was used as a disinfectant. The peaked ends had rain gutters going from the peaks to the center hole, 4 of them so while the boat rocked in the waves, (storms spoken of) the rain gave fresh water which drained off the high end and collected off the low end as the boat rocked. This draining down a tube into a section in the bottom gave fresh water to the animals, while pumping fresh air into the unit which forced the stale air out the same hole in the top. There was a pole going through a hole in the center floor which locked one plug in order to open the opposite one on the top or the bottom. The barges had been built without a saw mill, so split the trees from end to end, and created keels about every ten minutes of the clock around, and with braces like we use in the roof of large buildings cross wise to these keels created great strength while being five of the six sides of the cages for the animals so only holes in the underside of one keel and the top of the underneath floor became a cage for the animals. The running water down this center pipe of animal skins which caused the water flow to become an air pump also created a sound that calmed their nerves. These same compartments in the floor on the bottom were covered with flat sections and inside or underneath was storage for the grains for feed and also ballast. The sixteen stones, two for each barge was required in order to keep the occupants from loosing their depth perception were made by burning camel manure, which you also have burned lighting fire crackers to melt the silicone or granite sand into glass. Then by the Lord touching these stones, driving out all the impurities out by his touch..."
"I have also been doing a lot of research into the scriptures, and am very sorry about your testimony. Now as to the so-called marriage of Joseph Smith to all those women, you did not do your homework or you would have found that they were sealed to him because this was done before the saints were corrected on sealing that you only seal children to their families, not the church leaders. There was never any physical contact between Joseph and any of those women because of the sealing ordinance. Most of these "wives" were sealed to him after he was dead. Now, who wrote those books you referred to, were they church members in good standing, telling the truth, ABSOLUTELY NO. THEY WERE NOT, THEY JUST DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT REALLY WAS BEING DONE."
"Then next we come to the blood atonement, which Jesus himself went through in shedding his own blood, so that YOU and I can be forgiven of our sins through proper repentance... You cried for nothing, for lack of knowledge of what was really going on. There is so much Satan has you listening to."
I wrote to him asking if he had ever read "In Sacred Loneliness" by Todd Compton and that was the book I was referring to.
If I remember right 1000ppm of Methane is lethal. Being cooped up in a barge with animals even with the top hatch open would still lead to a lethal buildup of CO2 and Methane. Of course! I get it now! I should have known! Burning camel shit can melt sand into 16 small stones! Splitting trees end to end to make a barge! I would really like to see that, and I would really like to see how to make the necessary tools to split trees and build a ship. They would have to have a foundry and a source of iron ore to feed the smelter. My attempts at splitting wood like that have been rather unsuccessful. No way could a person or team split trees end to end with the tools and technology of that day and make a watertight ship. Interesting how when I asked detailed questions how I am now listening to Satan. What a crock of shit.
Any comments or thoughts?

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 10:08AM

Isn't it interesting that "furious winds" blew almost continuously and pushed those banana barges, but it took almost 1 year to reach the promised land? And what a marvelous work and wonder it was when those barges were submerged under the sea and still managed to go along at break neck speed? Glass windows. The Lord said well, I don't think glass windows is a good idea because they will shatter. Great advice, considering that the Jaredites wouldn't have had a clue as to what glass windows were. So many crazy things to this story!

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 05:17PM

If the barges had only been pushed at 10 miles per hour that would be 240 mile per day and in 344 days they would have traveled 82,560 miles which is more that three time circling the planet at the equator.
WAIT!! Is there something imperfect about the most perfect book?

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Posted by: jstone ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 10:23AM

We humans have a great skill of barricading ourselves inside nonsense beliefs. That said, we as disbelievers in momonism also have to guard ourselves so that regardless of source we can give proper consideration to new information. Mmm, now those barges - Without evidence and so extrordinary a claim there's actually no reason to beleive in them or the convoluted explanation about part reality partly a miracle. It is, as you say, a crock.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 10:27AM

Laughing so hard. I could feel his grand self-righteousness as he wrote. I'm sure he was sitting very erect. But the assuredness of his "detailed" explanation only means he has gone to great lengths to fool himself.

So, he thinks that when they pull the plug on the bottom of the boat that the ocean pressure will give them a break and let them dispose of their waste before it rushes in at alarming force?

Still laughing. Love to hear his take on the absent Lamanite/Nephite DNA. That would be good!


This is like my family though. There is nothing you can bring up that they don't have an explanation for. My mother has not given up on finding the DNA. It's gotta be there somewhere!

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 03:26AM

"he thinks that when they pull the plug on the bottom of the boat that the ocean pressure will give them a break and let them dispose of their waste before it rushes in at alarming force"

The word sh*tstorm comes to mind...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2018 03:27AM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 10:30AM

Notice how the vast majority of his "authoritative statements" about the Jaredite barges don't come from the BoM at all -- but are simply stuff he made up. To try and make sense of the made-up stuff in the BoM. But he treats it all as if it's established fact.

His quote (bad English and all):
"There are more revealed of science than any book on the face of the earth..."

Sorry, pal -- there's more "revealed science" in a 1st grade general science book than in the BoM. Saying things like that only shows how dishonest/deluded he is.

He also ignores facts and sticks with the "...there was no physical contact" and "they were all sealed to him after his death" nonsense. Which even his own church admits is completely false. Let him know he's going against the church's official statements with such "beliefs."

This guy didn't just drink the kool-aid, he's making his own. With extra cupfuls of sugar.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 10:40AM

Sugar! My family and all their Mormon friends consume so much sugar that your amusing comment actually made me wonder if there is a connection between sugar and loss of reason--also known as Mormonism. I don't feel like doing a study, but let's at least start the rumor. :)

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 12:40PM

Wow. That was quick. Like a revelation from on High! Oh that made me laugh. Ask and ye shall receive . . .

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:17PM

Revelation from On High?
Naw.
Just my extensive file of reference links :)

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:35PM

Maybe he meant from on "Hie"

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:38PM

Haha. Yes. I would have a lot more faith in a revelation from on "Hie."

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 10:32AM

How sad that 'truth' established via divine intervention, i.e., Moroni's promise, seems to be so easily assailed by facts. I do have a sort of admiration for those who can circumvent facts and hold fast to their beliefs.

I suppose that a sort of self-preservation of the soul is involved in that process. Better to hide from facts through ignorance than risk alienation from the tribe and having fingers pointed at oneself.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 11:45AM

My contention is that the model for the Jaredite barges was nothing less than that famous first US submarine called the Turtle. It was built in 1775.

The Turtle was described as two shells bound together. It had a hole in ghe bottom to take on water to allow it to submerge. It was entered through a hole in the top.

It also was lighted by using glow in the dark fungi called foxfire.

All of these things would have been known to Joseph.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 12:25PM

Haha. Are you insinuating that Joseph Smith never had an original thought in his life? Even copied that? NO!!!!

I looked up the Turtle thing for more info. Love having this bit of info for the arsenal thank you.

One thing I read said the final fate of the Turtle is unknown--just like the fate of the Jaredites, Nephites, and Lamanites. Paralells again.

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Posted by: burnedatthestake ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 12:03PM

I'd love to see this whole scenario make its way to the big screen. It has all the makings for an awesome movie...banana boats and even banana splits! I can visualize all of the special effects. Even better, it would make a great comedy with the right characters. I see Will Ferrell taking the lead role. Thanks for sharing!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:41PM

Dr. Dolittle meets The Perfect Storm? I'd go!

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:00PM

About once a year I post something about Jaredite barges, and the amazing coincidence that JS lived right near the Erie Canal; just today I found this new photo of the Jaredite barges tied up after they reached the New World...

https://eriecanalway.org/application/files/8814/5012/9005/NYC_winter-quarters-ca1900_Smithsonian_868.jpg

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:42PM

What a visual! Too good.

I know I'm posting too much but this is the funniest Friday the 13th thread ever.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:19PM

Don't boats that travel in bodies of salt water develop heavy coats of salt?

The idea that fresh water would run along the top of the vessel is incredulous.

Oh and don't forget the angry bees. :D

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 06:50PM

Boats in salt water don't get heavy coats of salt. Plants and marine critters attach themselves to the hull, and need to be cleaned off now and then.

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Posted by: perdition ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:46PM

Was steel involved in the construction of any of these barges FACT-The Jews were big on steel back in the day.

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Posted by: Cristina ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 02:18PM

The patriarch's I've listened to seem to be especially gullible and self deluded. I've heard patriarchs say pretty outlandish things. Maybe because they've spent so much time unconsciously inventing stories in the form of blessings that they've started to believe anything that comes into their minds must be inspired. Or perhaps the more malleable ones tend to be called to be patriarch.

This explanation of the Jaredite barges was very enjoyable. I wish I could read the patriarchal blessings he's given.

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Posted by: evileric ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 02:26PM

Thank you for the link Related Thread! I just read it and now everything makes perfect sense. I went through a typhoon with 140+ knot winds in an 18,000 ton submarine tender and she was taking 30 degree rolls. At least half the crew was seasick and we were all wondering how this old ship built in 1941 would hold up. I know what it is like and I find it impossible for the Jaredite barges to be able to support life for a day let alone a year. I like the Will Ferrell movie idea. Sure would be a great comedy.

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Posted by: Jonny the Smoke ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 05:07PM

Did you ever ask this person where they got all their amazing and detailed information? I'd like to hear that response.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 08:29PM

Joseph Smith was caught "sealing" a girl in a barn.

The barges are a ridiculous fantasy, and those who defend them are dupes. There may be IQ potential in these believers, but they aren't using it.

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