Isolation is one of the church’s Favorite weapons and they use it
liberally to punish a myriad of sins. Shunning is only part of the isolation package. It is characterized by TBM friends and acquaintances no longer speaking to you and they no longer include you in activities. The crazy making part of shunning is like everything else in the church, it’s done secretively. No one says a thing. more importantly, however, no one takes responsibility for initiating it. At least when the Amish shun people, they are told it is happening, why it’s happening and for how long. No guesswork for or speculation necessary; of course when a religion is voluntary, and the true blue members are paying 10% of their earnings to belong. One would like to believe the leadership would be filled with gratitude but if they are it is usually overshadowed by a sickening attitude of pernicious entitlement.

In many cases I have seen people publicly chastised and embarrassed in front of others. One fast Sunday a lady who
Was struggling to fit in quietly opened a container of food
and began eating in between church meetings. Later that evening at a get together I heard the Stake President ridiculing her behavior but had failed to find out that she was diabetic and had to eat before giving herself insulin.

I’ve heard of parents sanctioned for leaving the church and taking their minor children with them and church members actually proclaiming them incompetent as parents and even had the nerve to suggest the children be removed from their home.

This is crossing into cult behavior.

Isolation is both aggressive and vindictive and is often visited
Upon the heads of people who are already vulnerable. The LGBTQ
Community as a whole are at great risk of
being isolated from family members, church members, simply because of church leaders who completely lack empathy for the untenable situation they have personally created for people
don’t deserve such blatant abuse

I wasn't included as a member either. But that's alright. For the most part I didn't like the activities

dogblogger Wrote:
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> I wasn't included as a member either. But that's
> alright. For the most part I didn't like the
> activities


No it’s not alright. It hurts to feel left out and whether or not
You liked or disliked the activities i’m sure You are yearning to
Find a place where you feel like you belong. If you have any special hobbies you might look for groups or clubs that have people that like the same things you do.

was left out a lot because we weren't your "normal" mormon family. My dad wasn't very active. When my oldest brother got into high school, he rebelled big time and so did his friends. They were all considered problematic and their children were not allowed to be around him. And it went on and on and on.

When I married my gay husband, he knew how to play the mormon culture game and I was accepted in mormonism for the first time in my life. He was cheating with other men and yet I was treated better than any other time in any ward I went to.

I had many experiences with being shunned. I supposedly had 2 good friends in the ward, but when the 3 of us were together, I was shunned. I went to youth conference with them one year as they kept bugging me about it and I was left to room alone and spent most of the time alone.

My ex told my TBM daughter that I was never happy in mormonism and he is correct. Actually, the mormons treat me better for the most part now that I'm OUT than when I was in. My ex lives here and you can't believe how they fall all over him still. My sister and I determined that he is still mormon royalty and we are just the fringe element (per a list on this web site somwhere).

Mormonism is all about who is the coolest. If you just want to go to church to worship, that is a problem.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
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> was left out a lot because we weren't your
> "normal" mormon family. My dad wasn't very active.
> When my oldest brother got into high school, he
> rebelled big time and so did his friends. They
> were all considered problematic and their children
> were not allowed to be around him. And it went on
> and on and on.
>
> When I married my gay husband, he knew how to play
> the mormon culture game and I was accepted in
> mormonism for the first time in my life. He was
> cheating with other men and yet I was treated
> better than any other time in any ward I went to.
>
>
> I had many experiences with being shunned. I
> supposedly had 2 good friends in the ward, but
> when the 3 of us were together, I was shunned. I
> went to youth conference with them one year as
> they kept bugging me about it and I was left to
> room alone and spent most of the time alone.
>
> My ex told my TBM daughter that I was never happy
> in mormonism and he is correct. Actually, the
> mormons treat me better for the most part now that
> I'm OUT than when I was in. My ex lives here and
> you can't believe how they fall all over him
> still. My sister and I determined that he is still
> mormon royalty and we are just the fringe element
> (per a list on this web site somwhere).
>
> Mormonism is all about who is the coolest. If you
> just want to go to church to worship, that is a
> problem.

Your experience with your two friends encouraging you to go
and then leaving you to fend for yourself must have been
Incredibly painful. That is something, unfortunately, that you
Never forget.

I almost feel like some people are “schooled” in meanness.

The bottom line, however, is that you have to take a long hard look in the mirror and say something wonderful to your new BFF.
You got out of the marriage and the church and that is what I
had to do for myself before I was able to start really taking care of my new BFF....me

church. I never would have ended up in my marriage and neither would he had we not been mormons. I just wanted him to be okay. I wanted him to go find someone to love, but they told me he was damned if he didn't CHANGE. I was sure he couldn't change, but what did I know?

Leaving the church was the best thing I've ever done for myself. Thank whomever I got out.

The thing that has been interesting is that my 3 siblings who left in their teens still get caught up in the things they were taught as mormons. My youngest brother is always asking me again if I really don't believe. They all tell me what they've done so that I will tell them what I think. They haven't worked through the idiocy and abuse that is mormonism. Here they are in their 50s and they still carry a lot of guilt about things they did in the past or think that there are special things about the temple. And they come to me to talk it out. So my experiences taught me something that they never learned.

I am very protective of myself nowadays and very selective about who I allow to be my friends.

I had actually forgotten about the youth conference trip UNTIL my friend in elementary school committed suicide. She did not have active mormon parents and they always treated me so well. I found out in a strange way that she had committed suicide and I went to see her mother. Thankfully my parents never saw it as a problem that we had friends that weren't from "good mormon families." When we were in middle school, she went her way and I stayed mormon. She wanted to see me some years before she died. She told my sister to get hold of me for her. And I was in a bad place and didn't see her. Oh how I wish I had.

There's really no escape. We don't live in a classless society by any means. The elite are everywhere including every church.

In my town the stuffy Presbyterian Church is THE church to attend and within that congregation there are royalty and then the rest.

Standing at the edge of the inner circle can drive you crazy if you let it.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
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> If you
> just want to go to church to worship, that is a
> problem.

That's my wife's problem. Her bishop came to our daughter's farewell party and didn't talk to either of us.

If anything--being single into your mid-twenties, getting married outside the temple, transferring out of BYU to a better university, being dark instead of blonde, being popular with the men (she must be promiscuous), being too friendly, not dressing just right, not wearing the Mormon underwear, doing yard work on Sunday, smiling and laughing too much, having a hard time in life, having it too easy in life, being sick or disabled, having a divorce in the family, not having enough money, having too much money and not giving enough of it away, being a licensed teacher or a professional musician, attorney, or even a doctor and not giving away your services for FREE to Mormons....

Good Lord, I could fill 5 pages of reasons that the Mormons have for shunning good people.

Shunning is abuse. I believe it to be an act of hatred, as in racism and homophobia. It is a way Mormons can have power over a person. It is a way Mormons can get even if someone doesn't meet their demands. It is a way for Mormons to feel superior.

It is "a sickening attitude of pernicious entitlement."
--Well said, Anon42day. Thanks for your understanding post.

Mormon shunning is not just crossing over into cult behavior--Mormonism IS already a full-blown cult. The shunning aspect of it has always been into play--sometimes leading to murder, castration, banishment, confiscation of land, in the early days of Mormonism.

I consider shunning an overt act of hatred. There's nothing "passive-aggressive" about it. It is downright cruel. It has led to suicides! A shunner wants you to feel like nothing, to be unhappy, to feel unloved, to fail at having friends, to ultimately be case into "outer darkness." Anyone who wants bad things for you is certainly NOT YOUR FRIEND.

It took me years to realize this, with the Mormons who were especially phony and two-faced. Some of these fake friends were family members. All of them gossiped behind my back. My in-laws spread lies around our old ward, when their son abandoned me and our children for one of his women, saying it was all my fault, saying that I wouldn't allow my ex or the in-laws to see the children, bla-bla. My children needed love and support, and the in-laws called and said, "Don't expect any help from us." They lived only a mile away, and never bothered to see or even call their own grandchildren.

Shunning can be a blessing in disguise. I wonder if most shunners are horrible people, at heart. My shunning Mormon in-laws had close relationships with their temple-sealed TBM grandchildren, and gave them a lot of money. 6 of them are on drugs, and have been for years. One died of an overdose last month. The oldest grandchild committed suicide, a few weeks after graduating from BYU. She left a note, telling exactly WHY, and yes it was because of cult pressure to be perfect, and she was close to it. One grandson took his money and bought a van, and followed The Grateful Dead around the country, for two years, frying himself on drugs. He still has a problem. One went on a mission, and quit the cult when he got home, and is in rehab, right now, divorced and living in his RS President mother's basement. Three turned out OK, though they are struggling with debt, and OCD and anorexia. What a TBM house of horrors! Thank goodness my children didn't get involved with these cousins as friends, and as examples, giving them advice?

Not to brag--but my children deserve to be bragged about--my children turned out very well. No drugs. Athletic. Good students. College graduates. Happily married. Great parents to their own kids. Good careers. Nice houses nearby. Loving, loyal, empathetic, with lots of life-long friends. They are not racist or prejudiced. They aren't full of hate. Our lives couldn't have turned out any better.

What kind of life experiences would you have, if you were surrounded by people who delight in making you feel bad? Oh, we already know, because we have been Mormons.

It's not a punishment to be shunned by assholes. The vast majority of people who shun are, indeed, assholes.

That doesn't make shunning any less painful for those it is inflicted upon, though. I think it's helpful to remember that the world is full of people. The best thing to do is find other people to be with... people who don't engage in abuse.

Life is just too short.

Exminion: your fortitude amazes me as you weren’t just dealing
With shunning. You had ex in-laws using “character assassination” to try and get to you. Their intent to isolate you from your friends and associates and destroy your credibility
Probably was enough for you to dump them completely and move on
I’m sure they did your children a favor by staying out of their lives.

Profoundly written and SPOT ON, ExMinion.

Yes, this is an excellent, thoughtful response from Exminion. Exmionion, you make a wonderful contribution to the board.

relationships.

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2014/01/saving-your-life?lang=eng

"We can and must love one another as Jesus loves us. As He said, “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”26 But, the Lord reminds us, “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”So although familial love continues, relationships may be interrupted and, according to the circumstances, even support or tolerance at times suspended for the sake of our higher love"

It isn't imagined.

Is “crossing into” cult like behavior like when an oncoming truck crosses into your lane?

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> Is “crossing into” cult like behavior like
> when an oncoming truck crosses into your lane?


Bad choice of words! I wasn’t calling it like it really was.
Thanks for the heads up

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> Is “crossing into” cult like behavior like
> when an oncoming truck crosses into your lane?

Or putting your head into an oven.

Mormons are passive aggressive to a fault. Mendacious for eternity.

I LOVE learning new words and

Mendacious is my new one for the week. Thanks! Anon42day

When someone rejects the church many Mormons take it as a rejection of themselves, so it's somewhat natural and expected that they would return what they perceive as judgment and rejection. "You don't want us? Well we don't want you."

Besides, Mormonism is all about conformity. When Nelson said members should "be one," he didn't mean they should act as one loving family, welcoming of individual differences. He meant all members should be and act and think the same. Those who don't fit are a problem. Not fitting is taken as an indicator of unworthiness and sin. Sinners should be avoided lest their inferiority should rub off on you.

They see it as teaching the target person a necessary lesson. It's a way to try to force them back into compliance which might save their soul.

Of course it also feels good to punish someone who is wicked because they deserve the abuse and God wants them to suffer.

Mormons no longer have Danites so they must dish out less violent punishments.

The hard part is snapping out of the isolation that they put you in without bending to their will.

Badassadam1 Wrote:
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> The hard part is snapping out of the isolation
> that they put you in without bending to their
> will.

That is the hard part Adam, but it can be done. Moving forward toward something worthwhile and enjoyable such as going into a library and reading can expand your life significantly as you
are around other people but don’t necessarily have to interact
With them. It gets easier.

The few things i’ve Learned over the years are:

1. Screw up once
And it follows you for life

2. Women will always be second class
Baby makers

3. The church doesn’t get mad; it gets even

4. You never really know what is going on and what ever it is it
Isn’t good

5