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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:07PM

I attended a wedding last Saturday. The bride was the sister of my son's best friend for the past 16 years, and we've known the family all that time. I tutored the bride while she was in HS in chemistry and math (she was failing both), and got her through. She's now a college grad, and starting veterinary school in the fall (I'm so proud!).

Her mother is...interesting. Largely known as the town gossip, christian but not usually the pushy type. Been cordial with her (better friends with her husband). My wife won't tell her anything even semi-private, 'cause it'll be all over town the same day (and we live in a small town).

Anyway, that's the setup.

For the wedding, the bride's mother picked the pastor. The bride is nominally christian, not very active, and certainly not "fundamentalist" in any way. The pastor chosen is known as a fundamentalist, but bride's mom apparently assured bride & groom that this wouldn't be a "preachy" wedding ceremony, just the usual christian stuff.

During the rehearsal, the pastor apparently skipped a lot of what he would actually say ("I won't bore you with the full version now, let's just get on to practicing your parts..."). It went fine, everyone thought. On to wedding day...

Pastor starts out fine. Then out of nowhere, goes into a scolding fundamentalist "sermon," which took up a full 20 minutes of the "ceremony." Compared the bride & groom to Adam & Eve, which he made sure everyone knew were REAL, ACTUAL PEOPLE MADE DIRECTLY BY GOD, and who lived about 4,000 years ago -- and anyone who claimed otherwise was a misled tool of Satan. Insisted that our universe "didn't bang into existence," but was specially and directly created by god in one literal week about 4k years ago -- and then spent a good 10 minutes making sure everyone knew how evil and corrupt "science" was to say otherwise.
Then the real kicker: Praised the bride & groom for choosing the only "real" marriage, that of a man and woman intending to produce children to raise up for god. Any other marriage was a corruption of god's plan, and was inherently evil. Anything "the world" called marriage that was anything different must be purged from god's ordained country, the good old US of A. Even through in a "while we love gay people as children of god, we hate their actions, and hate them trying to take over our institutions like marriage."

I sat and bit my lip. My 17 year-old daughter, sitting next to me, rolled her eyes and giggled. The bride lowered her head, and appeared to be trying not to say something that would ruin her wedding day (which I confirmed after was indeed the case). But it was clear she was furious.

The last part was especially hurtful to the bride, who has several gay friends (one pair that is a legally married couple), and she felt horrible that they were being called "evil" at her wedding. About half the audience was nodding in agreement, the other half doing what my daughter and I were doing. You could have cut the tension with a butter knife.

As soon as the "I dos" were done (which for the bride only included an "obey" clause, something else that wasn't in the rehearsal), and the happy couple exited, the bride grabbed her mother and the pastor, and took off behind the reception room instead of going to do pictures. About 10 minutes later the bride came out, a few minutes later her mother did, the pastor never showed again. There was clear tension between bride and mother. Nobody was enjoying it -- especially the bride.

Talking to her after, she confirmed for me that her mom and the pastor had set all this up intentionally. The mother told the pastor to skip all the "controversial" stuff during the rehearsal, but to include it in the ceremony. The bride told the pastor to leave, that he wasn't welcome at her reception for lying to her, and shame on him for being both dishonest and a bigot. Mother of the bride was relegated to the side of most photos, and was told by her daughter that as they went around visiting tables, mother had to apologize to anyone who was offended by the pastor's remarks -- which did not represent the bride or groom. It wasn't until everyone got a decent amount of alcohol in them that the tension started to let up a bit.

So, basically, a pastor and mother conspired to ruin the daughter's wedding day because they felt it was imperative that their religious beliefs, not the daughter's or the groom's, were made loud and clear at somebody else's wedding. It was the most mormon-like wedding I've ever seen outside a temple in that respect :)

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:12PM

Nothing like weddings and funerals for hidden agendas. Why is this not the case with baptisms?

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:33PM

Speaking of funerals. Hie's story reminds me of my great (in all senses of the word) uncle several years ago. My great-uncle was marginally Methodist, so whoever was in charge of the funeral arranged for a Methodist minister to preside over the service.

During his sermon, the minister chastised Clyde for being a lapsed member of the church and explicitly stated that he could not, and would not, vouch for Clyde's worthiness to ascend to heaven. He said that Clyde had removed himself from God's favor, but hoped, for Clyde's sake, that God would be more merciful than himself.

My dad and my mom, who was one of Clyde's nieces, took the minister off to the side immediately after the service to rip him a new one. They told minister that his attendance would not be welcomed at the cemetery; that they could find any of a hundred friends, relatives, and acquaintances who would eagerly say kind words over the grave of their beloved Clyde.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 07:26PM

RIP Clyde - the guy horribly used by religious beliefs in death. Sounds like a corp I know of.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:14PM

Good for the bride to read both the pastor and her mother the riot act for their betrayal.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:17PM

The psychology behind foisting one's beliefs on others is fascinating!

Infliction of one's beliefs on a 'Captive Audience' is probably thought to be a crowning achievement and the methodology behind a successful assault cannot be judged, as the end justifies whatever means are used.

At least here on RfM, I chose who to read, and when to read them.

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:18PM

Hardly Christian would be my description. I "love" people who push the poof theory of creation. Poof there's chicken, oh look another one...........

That poor bride.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:29PM

sbg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That poor bride.

People talk about bride-zillas. Is there a term for their mothers?

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:30PM

Not that I know of, but it might be time to create one......This broad is the poster child.

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Posted by: lazylizard ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:28PM

That is just sickening. If my.mother or grandmother did that (I have a very antigay grandpa and grandma on both sides of family)I wouldn't be able to forgive them. You don't do that on anyone's wedding day.

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Posted by: kestrafinn (not logged in) ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 05:04PM

Agreed. Had someone in my family pulled that stunt, they would no longer be family in anything but a listing on the family tree.

I'm amazed she was willing to allow her mother to attend the reception. That takes restraint. I doubt her mother will even think twice about how horrible she was.

That poor bride and her new husband. May their marriage go onto better things.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:30PM

"It was the most mormon-like wedding I've ever seen outside a temple in that respect :)"

The big difference is The Mormons hide this crap in their temples.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:44PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "It was the most mormon-like wedding I've ever
> seen outside a temple in that respect :)"
>
> The big difference is The Mormons hide this crap
> in their temples.

Horrible wedding, hijacked by mama and her pet pastor. Glad the bride took action! Good for her.

Nothing is hidden anymore. It's all on the Internet.
I just posted the actual dialog and the covenants.
I'm adamant about Full Disclosure

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Posted by: jett ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 07:09PM

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elder Berry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "It was the most mormon-like wedding I've ever
> > seen outside a temple in that respect :)"
> >
> > The big difference is The Mormons hide this
> crap
> > in their temples.
>
> Horrible wedding, hijacked by mama and her pet
> pastor. Glad the bride took action! Good for her..
> Nothing is hidden anymore. It's all on the
> Internet.
> I just posted the actual dialog and the
> covenants.
> I'm adamant about Full Disclosure
I have never been able to find out information on the throat and gut cutting ceremony in the temple. It is not that easy to find.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 07:10PM by jett.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 11:33AM

I understand the oaths and cutting demonstrations have been removed but there are three famous murders I am writing about, each using one of the methods. Clue: the cutting in half was used in the "Black Dahlia" murder.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 03:31PM

Un-bleeping-believable. Sounds like the bride handled it as well as could be expected, and hopefully the mother dug herself a deep enough hole that it will take years to dig her way out of it. Even by Mormon standards, that was seriously messed up. Although, at a temple wedding, gay couples wouldn't even be admitted, so maybe Mormons are still worse.

I wonder if afterwards, the bride wished she had fired the minister on the spot, mid-ceremony, apologized to the guests, asked if there was anyone in the house who had a ministerial license from the state, and failing that, invited the attendees to the reception that would start immediately, and some phone calls would be made to arrange for a justice of the peace to drop by during the reception and finish the ceremony. That would have been the most viral wedding video ever.

I know, easy to say after the fact, but hard to think that far ahead when blindsided at your own wedding. That would be my "I should have said" fantasy.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:39PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if afterwards, the bride wished she had
> fired the minister on the spot, mid-ceremony,
> apologized to the guests, asked if there was
> anyone in the house who had a ministerial license
> from the state...

She told me she considered it. But wasn't going to give her mom that kind of power over her.

She did say that when she got the wedding video, it was going to be "heavily edited..." :)

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:08PM

How do you forgive a mother who would do this to your wedding?

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:14PM

You don't you bide your time and have an atheist speak at her funeral.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:30PM


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Posted by: captainklutz ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:57PM

What's the atheist going to say? She's in that box there and ain't going anywhere?

Works for me! ;->

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 02:26PM

Or "She's Dead, the party is at the bar next door".

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:37PM

I was taught this at a British Baptist Sunday School in the late 60s, minus the gay marriage bit, of course, which was unthinkble then.

They don't seem to moved on with their "thinking'.

Sad.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: 2 hot 2 log in ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:39PM

"Adam & Eve… who lived about 4,000 years ago"

Wait, that's the story now? A&E were c. 2000 BCE? So when did god have time for the flood?

The bride was understandably humiliated and mortified, but what was the groom's reaction during all of this? (I'd like to imagine him stopping the pastor, checking to ensure that the bride wasn't in on it, then taking the bible from the pastor and clocking him upside the head with it.)

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:41PM

He actually said "4,000 years ago."

And yes, that differs from the most popular version of young-earth creationism.

I don't know if it was a brain fart on his part (after all, he hadn't rehearsed that part! haha), or that's what he thinks. I didn't want to ask.

Oh, and the groom basically just kept reaching over and patting the bride's shoulder...I suspect whispering something like, "it's ok, we'll get through this..." But I didn't ask the bride.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 04:42PM by ificouldhietokolob.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 04:41PM

Treason. Period. The epitome of selfishness.

I am in awe of the bride for immediately straightening the pair out and kicking pastor out and reigning in mother. I'm impressed. However, no one should ever have to perform such an exorcism at their own wedding.

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 06:49PM

So did you have a do over wedding? Hope you didn't sign anything.
And get a refund.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 07:03PM

That’s disgusting. What makes it even worse is that a wedding is supposed to be a joyous experience—not an occasion to preach personal views.

I commend those in attendance who put up with the “pastor’s” shit. If folks want a traditional church wedding and are not part of a specific faith community, the best bets are mainline Protestant clergy. And, it doesn’t hurt to ask them to follow the wishes of those getting married.

When my father died, my Mom asked an Episcopal priest to conduct his funeral. We followed the traditional Book of Common prayer, but left out anything, such as the creed, that may have been difficult for those attending who were not Christians. Mother Linda was wonderful about respecting what our family wanted.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 07:36PM

Wow. That's horrible.

I predict that mom is going to be a pain in that couple's rear until she dies. They are going to have to stand up to her at some point I suspect.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 09:03PM

I wasnt aware that the age of the earth is part of the wedding ceremony anyway.Sounds like he was trying to stir the pot.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 09:18PM

It was mom who was stirring the pot; the pastor was just her tool. Mom got exactly what she wanted, only it did not turn out the way she planned.

But this setback won't stop her from continuing her righteous efforts!

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 09:27PM

Agreed, but the pastor didnt have to take his orders from Mom and turn a wedding into a lecture on creationism. If a wedding isnt liturgical and strictly from a prayerbook, everyone should discuss what is going to be said in advance. If the pastor wont agree, find someone else. Also ,make.it.clear that only the wishes of the bride and groom count.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 05, 2018 10:50PM

wow

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 12:28AM

ended up watching the Family Guy Star Wars stare down wondering WTH it had to do with a wedding.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 10:06AM

You just don't know a trap when you see one. The wedding was a trap.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 12:47AM

Mother-in-law (mother-in law), mother-in-law (mother-in-law)
The worst person I know, mother-in-law, mother-in-law
She worries me so, mother-in-law, mother-in-law
If she leaves us alone, we would have a happy home
Sent from down below
(Mother-in-law) mother-in-law, (mother-in-law), mother-in-law

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6EN5eJf5h_k

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 01:05AM


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Posted by: siobhan ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 03:38AM

I used to sit in the WWOZ studio, when it was still over Tipitina's, while Ernie KDoe did his show.
He would say "Honk if you're a Charity Hospital Baby" and car horns would go off all up and down Tchoupitoulas Street.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 03:26AM

Awful! What a nasty thing that woman did to her daughter! I blame the mom more than the pastor, although the pastor also sounds like a jackass.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 10:02AM

How awful!

IMO it's best if the couple chooses the officiator, but even then it can be a luck of the draw. Years ago some friends of mine chose an Episcopal priest who presided over a scenic church in the country. Even though he was mainstream Christian, his wedding ceremony got a bit lecture-y. The couple and the attendees gritted their teeth and got through it. But it wasn't even close to as bad as Hie's experience.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 11:44AM

My husband and I got lucky. I got my former boss at a Presbyterian church camp to officiate. He was, at that time, a Presbyterian minister. He did a fantastic job, even though my husband's best man (his dad) fainted right before we said our vows. His comments were very meaningful and we still remember them almost sixteen years later.

My former boss has since left the Presbyterian ministry and is now a Catholic working as a certified nursing assistant. I think he had some trouble with some of the Calvinist beliefs of the PCUSA church and the rich old ladies who kept trying to tell him what to do.

I'll always be grateful that he did our wedding, though. He made it very meaningful. Even my mom, who was a church organist in Methodist churches for years, said that she'd go back to being a Presbyterian if my old boss was preaching. :D

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 01:03PM

To me, the minister might be more important than the denomination, because the minister sets the tone of the church. A kind, tolerant, people-oriented pastor can make a particular church.

My brother and his wife were lucky as well. My brother had just been awarded his graduate degrees, so they chose the campus-affiliated UU minister. He was a kind, friendly man. He did a straightforward wedding ceremony and lifted a glass with all of us at the reception afterward.

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Posted by: captainklutz ( )
Date: July 06, 2018 01:58PM

I registered with the Universal Life Church as a minister years ago. I finally got to do a wedding in 2016 for my best friend of almost 50 years.

She's very Catholic, he's nominally atheist. I worked with them to put together a short, non-denominational, ceremony that it was my great honor to perform.

I did my best to not put them thru the heck that a priest friend of my father did with my wife and I. Same situation although my wife was lapsing catholic. I would have cheerfully punched that priest but my wife held me back and we got a new priest to do our ceremony. Amazing how quick a ceremony can be when you leave out all the catholic and prayer stuff.

Anyway, my point here is that anybody getting married should find an officiant that they're comfortable with...forget mom and dad.

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Posted by: Ucannothietokolob ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 09:42AM

Assuming the above is true as written, then it sounds like the only one who comported himself with integrity is the pastor who is "known as a fundamentalist." If you hire a fundamentalist pastor to perform a wedding, then you're going to get a fundamentalist wedding. Btw, skipping the time consuming parts during the wedding rehearsal is the norm, not a conspiracy. I've attended dozens of wedding rehearsals in my lifetime, and I've never seen the wedding done in full during the rehearsal. And never the sermon or remarks. Never.

The mom allegedly lied to the daughter and misled her. Sounds like a real douchebag.

The daughter apparently never spoke to the pastor about her expectations or wishes. Perhaps she's not as altogether as one might expect a future veterinarian to be, no matter how proud of her we might be. In any case, it's seems irrational to "fire" the pastor, even after the fact, for not fulfilling "expectations" that were not even communicated to him.

Assuming the above is all true, then I'd suspect that the story involves a lot of people who thrive on drama.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 10:43AM

Nah. The minister was a jerk who used the wedding couple, family, and attendees to move his agenda forward. Talking about evolution, science, and an anti-homosexual agenda has little to do with marriage. Most ministers and priests throw in some remarks about marriage, often with quotes from the bible, not give a 20 minute lecture. This guy was being an ass.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 08:24PM


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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:00AM

a) all the above is true
b) the daughter (bride) did talk to the pastor ahead of time and express her wishes -- he ignored them
c) get your own damn login name

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Posted by: Ucannothietokolob ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 10:51AM

Nah, the mother knew what she was getting.

Hie said that the daughter was "certainly not 'fundamentalist' in any way. The pastor chosen is known as a fundamentalist, but bride's mom apparently assured bride & groom that this wouldn't be a 'preachy' wedding ceremony, just the usual christian stuff."

The minister might be a jerk, but he was the jerk everyone knew him to be.

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Posted by: moremany-NLI ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 03:47PM

They'll PREACH (not act or say or do anything normal, kind or Christ-like) at any opportunity with a perch (and I don't mean the fish) for disrupting, hijacking and ruining anything.

We mean EVERYTHING

M@t

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Posted by: Ucannothietokolob ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 04:34PM

Yep! If you give one a platform, you know what they're gonna talk about. This thread is a prime example of that.

It's analogous to the Mormon funeral. TBMs are gonna yammer on about mormonism. They don't know what else to talk about.

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Posted by: formerrlds ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 06:19PM

Yeesh. I couldn't say whether this is a Mormon thing, but if you ask most really fundamentalist Protestant ministers to preach a wedding or a funeral, you're going to get a "come to Jesus" message. Even if they swear up and down beforehand that there won't be. It's part of their job, to scare the heathens into submission. :lol:

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 06:36PM

The motives of the mother in law aside, together with the insensitivity of the preacher to the occasion, why is anyone surprised that preaching would occur in a Church service? It's what churches do. Apparently it is okay for people to take advantage of the church when it suits them just as long as the preacher keeps religion out of it.

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Posted by: formerrlds ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 08:17PM

I sort of agree. If I didn't want a religious wedding, I wouldn't ask a minister to perform it. I'm an atheist now, so if I married I would either go to a justice of the peace or ask around to find a civil authority of some kind.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 09:33PM

Where's an inexpensive Druid when you need one!!

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 11:21PM


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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 11:24PM

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Why do people want a church wedding, but they don't want "church" in the wedding.

OTOH, there are different kinds and types of churches. You just gotta make sure you choose the right one. If you select a fundamentalist preacher, that's definitely the message you'll get. Actually, maybe he actually was holding back--I didn't hear mention of an altar call! ;)

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 11:30PM

That's a blast from my past!

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: July 08, 2018 11:41PM

Yeah, that's going way back! Well, I'm sure some churches are still doing them.

I understand now that most mega churches just tell everyone to close their eyes and encourage people to say the sinners' prayer in their seats.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:03AM

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why is anyone surprised that preaching
> would occur in a Church service? It's what
> churches do.

The wedding wasn't in a church. It was outdoors at a local "wedding event location."

> Apparently it is okay for people to
> take advantage of the church when it suits them
> just as long as the preacher keeps religion out of
> it.

The pastor here was paid for his services. I don't see that as "taking advantage of the church."

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 10:18AM

What I get for not paying attention to where the wedding was held. I think it was the fault of the woman who selected the officiator and the directive she gave.

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Posted by: Johnny Canuck ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 01:30AM

Was in a wedding party once with a nasty Pentecostal preacher imported from Saskatchewan. Ditto for a friend's funeral... Crazy rambling on and half the people present were ecstatic Norm was with Jesus. I came away disgusted from both.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 08:32AM

This seems to be the norm for Pentecostal weddings. We drove up a few years ago to a wedding in Chicago. A Pentecostal minister officiated. I don't remember much of his long religious rant now other than he stated that atheists are awful people who do not have their priorities straight. I wanted to talk to him at the reception and decided not to. It was good to support a friend. The preaching we could of done without.

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