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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 04:58PM

On a serious note, cheating, lying, and other actions often get a Pass in Mormondumb,when breaking the WOW won't...

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 05:09PM

Utah editorial cartoon caption I saw back in the 1960s:
"In Utah, you have a higher social standing if you rob gas stations for a living, than if you drink coffee in public"

Even as a TBM at the time, I saw the irony. At least now there are a lot of coffee shops. There are also a lot of those ridiculous Utah soda shop drive-throughs selling sugar in quantities that would stun an ox. Not only are Mormons OK with that, more than a few of them seem to think it is really cool. There is often a <bleeping> lineup at the one near me.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 06:52PM


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Posted by: doyle18 ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 11:08PM

Those soda drive-thru places in Utah reminds me that at my youngest step sister's reception in Provo, they had a soda "bar" and the only food was crepes. My nevermo mom thought the soda was way too sweet.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 06:49PM

J Golden Kimball was a member of the presidency of the 70. He was well known for breaking the Word of Wisdom.

1. When a woman recognized him in a restaurant drinking coffee she came up to him and said she'd rather commit adultry than drink coffe. His reply "Who wouldn't? "

2. At a business lunch with many influential businessmen and church leaders the waitress asked him what he wanted to drink. Under the scrutiny of several apostles he timidly said water.

A man sitting next to him caught the waitress and told her to bring Golden coffee. When the waitress set coffee in front of him Golden said "the Lord heard me say water"

3. Golden was a cowboy. He liked having coffee brewed over an open fire. Grandpa was a cowboy and enjoyed the same "cowboy breakfast" especially since grandma did not allow coffee at home.

One day Grandma chastised Golden and Grandpa for heading up the canyon for coffee. Said it was a bad example for my father (who was about 6 at the time)

Golden turned to my father and said. "The word of wisdom does not apply above an altitude of 4500 feet. So breaking it at home.)

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 07:12PM

I think I like that man. :)

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 10:16PM

And maybe not even as a kid.

He grew up in a time and place where Mormon society was the only society around and getting a job in the church hierarchy was like getting a good civil service job with the government.

Nepotism was the order of the day and when opportunity knocked, I suspect he shrugged and thought to himself "why not be a GA?"

They also did not take the WoW all that seriously until the deranged fanatic Heber J. Grant became the President. (It was another case of a guy nursing a pet peeve for decades until he finally got into a position where he could turn his pet peeve into a "revelation" just as Nelson has recently done with his pet peeve concerning the 'Mormon" nickname.)

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 03:53AM

About his position Golden said "in the church you get a position by revelation or relation. If I was Heber Kimball's son I'd never amount to a hill of beans in the church."

Golden's value to the church was his popularity and his ability to communicate with the rural members.

Grant and Golden butted heads all the time and Golden was at times openly critical of Grant.

When asked why he was never thrown out of the church he replied."I repent too damn fast."

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 03:54AM

Should have been "if I wasn't Heber Kimball's son"

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 10:26PM

That's like prohibiting vitamin c or prohibiting the drinking of mineral water.

The arbitrary stupidity of it flashes like a big neon sign in a dark alley at midnight.

Bishop to person who just failed the temple recommend interview: "So, Sister Grimbald, until you kick that nasty green tea habit, you cannot have a temple recommend. Sometimes two cups of weak green tea a day, you told me. That's pretty bad. There is no such thing as weak damnation. When you're drinking liquid damnation every day, it doesn't matter how watered down it is."

Sister Grimbald: "But Bishop, you're morbidly obese due to your steady diet of soda pop, hot dogs and cheeseburgers and I'm healthier than I've ever been."

Bishop: "We're talking about sin and disobedience, Sister Grimbald and you're trying to change the subject."

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 22, 2019 11:30PM

As an alcoholic, I take a few supplements, including resveratrol, the ingredient in red wine that is regarded as healthful. That way I abstain from alcohol. What if you took green tea capsule supplements? I suppose that would be okay.

So you wash them down with a swallow of water. What if you made it warm water? It might be more comfortable if you soaked the capsules in warm water first, to soften them up. Then --uh,oh!--the capsule covering dissolved, and the green tea supplement is leaking into the water. Better drink it right away.

Ohmygosh! Now it's tea! You just violated the Word of Wisdom!

Now, Wally, do you see how insidiously subtle and gradual sin can be? Let this be a lesson to you!

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 12:47AM

or rather I gave myself permission to admit that I hadn't believed for a long time.

I was carrying a huge class load and wanted to drink coffee to help me cope with it. But I didn't want to get in trouble with the "standards office" if someone ratted me out. Drinking coffee therefore carried a risk of screwing up my graduation prospects when I was so close to getting out, so I took no-doz tablets instead. Probably much worse for overall health, but WOW-compliant as far as I knew.

When you're compelled to do irrational things in order to work around irrational rules so that you can accomplish important rational objectives, you know you're in a cult.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 02:07AM

...toughing out the last year or two at BYU, enduring the culture and standards code to get that degree. I won't say "I feel your pain," but I sympathize and respect you.

Makes me wonder: what if somebody formed a support group for BYU students who had lost their testimony, but wanted to honestly comply with "Y" requirements to get their degree? Probably unrealistic, but it would sure be helpful.

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Posted by: bezoar ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 08:45AM

Instead of No-Doz, I took Excedrin while I was at BYU. It also packs a punch of caffeine, and is offered for sale at the BYU Bookstore.

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Posted by: Dead Cat ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 03:56AM

I don't drink tea but I do enjoy "leaf soup"

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 06:37AM

But they had a problem digesting their favorite greens raw, so their solution was to dry them, then roll them up in little paper rolls and then slowly burn the paper roll at one end to cook the leaves, while sucking the essence of that leafy green goodness out of the non-burning end of the paper roll.

Quite ingenious.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 01:59AM

Good thinking!

My TBM uncle and my TBM mother both had a heart condition that required caffeine as medicinal therapy, to speed up the heart. Their Mormon doctor recommended 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning, every morning. My mother grew to love her coffee, and my uncle, who decided to take 2 no-doz every morning, gave her endless lectures about breaking the Word of Wisdom. It was the only thing they fought about. Stupid.

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Posted by: catholicrebel ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 08:59AM

I always found it so ironic when my TBM friend would chug “Two Hour Energy” and then chastise her also TBM husband for drinking Mountain Dew. There are proven benefits to coffee and wine and really absolutely none to “Two Hour Energy” but yet it was completely ok. It seems like such a contradiction to what they all argued the WoW was about. However, some members argued that it all was simply about obedience. It set everyone apart like the Jewish kosher laws. I don’t think God would make coffee ok in the kosher laws and then ban it in the WoW or turn water to wine then ban that too.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:13AM

whenever it becomes manifestly clear that a particular rule is not only illogical and pointless, but potentially does more harm than good.

It's all about obedience to petty rules, while pretending that this doesn't put them into the same category as the rule-obsessed Pharisees that Jesus condemned at every turn.

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Posted by: Mormon Nomore ( )
Date: January 23, 2019 09:14AM

My mother has experienced such core stress and guilt for decades as a TBM that I am now pretty sure that it has taken a physiological toll at the cellular level that very likely depletes much of the benefits of her WOW adherance.

But the inspired men of Mormondom never mention such exhaustion.

Why not?

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:28AM

at the end of the WoW, as the reward for obedience. (Since the WoW itself offers its own rewards for obedience, it seems illogical to also link temple-worthiness to WoW compliance. That's like saying, if you drink water you won't be thirsty. But just to make sure you drink water, we will cut you off from our family if you don't drink water. IOW, if there was really a cause-and-effect relationship between excellent health and the WoW, there would be no need to superfluously link compliance with temple worthiness.)

The promised blessings:

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones; [[whatever that means. I've been drinking coffee now for several decades, along with tea and occasionally some wine and beer. I've never been tempted to smoke and I only like alcoholic beverages in moderation. Technically, the coffee and tea is enough to put me into the very disobedient category, but I actually have felt healthier after I started drinking coffee and tea.]]

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures; [[I've never seen any cause and effect relationship between WoW compliance and this promise. On the contrary, coffee drinking did more to make wisdom and great treasures of knowledge available to me than abstaining did. Before I often could not spend hours studying. Reading a couple of pages of any complicated text would put me to sleep. Coffee proved to be a godsend.]]

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint. [[Yep, improvements in this area only happened after I began drinking coffee and tea. I have many WoW-observing Mormon friends who don't run because they are already too weary and avoid walking most of the time. I've never actually known any Mormon or non-Mormon who fainted while walking.]]

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 01:12AM


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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 06:03AM

I heard that even a medical-marijuana user can get a temple recommend. It's all in how you frame things.

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