Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I am curious if many people here feel so much rage and betrayal because TSCC promises so much, gets your hopes so high, then you find out instead of a friendly family, it is just pay, pray, obey, plus work for free--forever?
I'm just trying to get a sense of it--is it because most churches don't promise so much?
I'm just trying to get a sense of it--is it because most churches don't promise so much?
mel Wrote:
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> I am curious if many people here feel so much rage
> and betrayal because TSCC promises so much, gets
> your hopes so high, then you find out instead of a
> friendly family, it is just pay, pray, obey, plus
> work for free--forever?
>
> I'm just trying to get a sense of it--
Why do you think what other churches promise isn't "as much".
"Eternal life" sounds like a lot to me
is it
> because most churches don't promise so much?
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> I am curious if many people here feel so much rage
> and betrayal because TSCC promises so much, gets
> your hopes so high, then you find out instead of a
> friendly family, it is just pay, pray, obey, plus
> work for free--forever?
>
> I'm just trying to get a sense of it--
Why do you think what other churches promise isn't "as much".
"Eternal life" sounds like a lot to me
is it
> because most churches don't promise so much?
Christ preached that one's eternal destiny will be determined by faith ("Salvation by faith alone"), in response to God's grace (offer of forgiveness and reconciliation). If authentic, the believer's life will demonstrated the change in one's heart and conduct towards others.
Cults tend to focus on one's conduct. In LDS, there's that, but also an emphasis on obedience to church authority and conformity to the church culture. This often leads to insincere compliance and hypocrisy. (And yes, Christian churches have their share of hypocrites. Jesus did preach about the tares in the wheat field.)
Granted, that's a major simplification, but I hope this helps.
Cults tend to focus on one's conduct. In LDS, there's that, but also an emphasis on obedience to church authority and conformity to the church culture. This often leads to insincere compliance and hypocrisy. (And yes, Christian churches have their share of hypocrites. Jesus did preach about the tares in the wheat field.)
Granted, that's a major simplification, but I hope this helps.
Thanks, Caffeind.
An oversimplification is what we need after trying to navigate the rabbit hole of Mormonism.
An oversimplification is what we need after trying to navigate the rabbit hole of Mormonism.
kathleen Wrote:
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> Thanks, Caffeind.
> An oversimplification is what we need after trying
> to navigate the rabbit hole of Mormonism.
Yes thank you both! I was curious and googled to see if other religions had a recovery board like this and couldn’t find anything so that was what led to my question!
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> Thanks, Caffeind.
> An oversimplification is what we need after trying
> to navigate the rabbit hole of Mormonism.
Yes thank you both! I was curious and googled to see if other religions had a recovery board like this and couldn’t find anything so that was what led to my question!
Mel not logged in Wrote:
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> I was curious and googled to
> see if other religions had a recovery board like
> this and couldn’t find anything so that was what
> led to my question!
I did Google searches for: "recovery board for ex-Jews" and "recovery board for ex-Hindus."
"recovery board for ex-Jews" offers a link to Footsteps, which is a much needed, and very much respected, recovery group for those who have left the Jewish ultra-Orthodox groups (the "black hats," in "Jewish speak")....and nothing at all for "just regular" Jews.
(Even if a born Jew converts to another religion, for the most part they are, by Jewish law, still considered to be legally Jews should they choose to assert their Jewish status. There might be some very practical legal hoops to jump over if that person decided to immigrate to Israel, but this situation is neither unknown, nor is it "un-do-able," even in Israel--for the most part, anyway.
[Jews from Russia, in particular, who immigrated to Israel after the fall of the Soviet Union, often had to do a lot of "jumping through hoops" before they were accepted AS JEWS in Israel. (Just because a Russian person was allowed to enter Israel as an immigrant did not necessarily mean that they would receive Jewish status on legal identification papers, which complicated marriage, divorce, and many matters related to offspring, etc.) ]
"recovery board for ex-Hindus" brought up no returns on this subject, but did bring up a number of links to a construction material I had never heard of before, called "recovery board," used by builders who reconstruct already-existing buildings. ;)
Excellent question, Mel!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 09:42PM by Tevai.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was curious and googled to
> see if other religions had a recovery board like
> this and couldn’t find anything so that was what
> led to my question!
I did Google searches for: "recovery board for ex-Jews" and "recovery board for ex-Hindus."
"recovery board for ex-Jews" offers a link to Footsteps, which is a much needed, and very much respected, recovery group for those who have left the Jewish ultra-Orthodox groups (the "black hats," in "Jewish speak")....and nothing at all for "just regular" Jews.
(Even if a born Jew converts to another religion, for the most part they are, by Jewish law, still considered to be legally Jews should they choose to assert their Jewish status. There might be some very practical legal hoops to jump over if that person decided to immigrate to Israel, but this situation is neither unknown, nor is it "un-do-able," even in Israel--for the most part, anyway.
[Jews from Russia, in particular, who immigrated to Israel after the fall of the Soviet Union, often had to do a lot of "jumping through hoops" before they were accepted AS JEWS in Israel. (Just because a Russian person was allowed to enter Israel as an immigrant did not necessarily mean that they would receive Jewish status on legal identification papers, which complicated marriage, divorce, and many matters related to offspring, etc.) ]
"recovery board for ex-Hindus" brought up no returns on this subject, but did bring up a number of links to a construction material I had never heard of before, called "recovery board," used by builders who reconstruct already-existing buildings. ;)
Excellent question, Mel!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 09:42PM by Tevai.
Betrayal of trust and confidence leads to outrage.
Cult leaders cut members down at their most vulnerable.
It promises way more than it delivers.
Cult leaders cut members down at their most vulnerable.
It promises way more than it delivers.
Amyjo Wrote:
> Cult leaders cut members down at their most vulnerable.
I agree. I saw the other new converts as well as myself, seeming hopeful, seeking--community, faith, beliefs, and most were treated very poorly. Few came more than a few times, even fewer ever got baptized, and most were gone quickly after the missionaries stopped sitting with them.
Thank you, Amyjo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 09:30PM by mel.
> Cult leaders cut members down at their most vulnerable.
I agree. I saw the other new converts as well as myself, seeming hopeful, seeking--community, faith, beliefs, and most were treated very poorly. Few came more than a few times, even fewer ever got baptized, and most were gone quickly after the missionaries stopped sitting with them.
Thank you, Amyjo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 09:30PM by mel.
Well, other churches don't promise as much as Mormonism: few if any extend the possibility of godhood, with endless procreation and worlds without end.
The goal of Mormonism isn't salvation and eternal life, which everyone but the Outer Darkness crowd gets as a participation trophy. LDS doctrine establishes that all that really matters is exaltation. In exchange, the church demands basically everything: all time, all wealth, all social and familial loyalty. Ultimately the church can take as much of each of those as it wants. So yes, when people discover the truth and defect from the faith, they experience intense emotions because they realize the scope of the deception and the sacrifices that were exacted.
I would ask, however, if people who leave other cults experience something similar. If the sense of betrayal is a function of wasted investment, then those who apostasize from other religious or political cults might well undergo similar emotional trauma.
Perhaps some of the anger dissipates if the defector from one cult moves quickly to another, or from a religious cult to the political equivalent. I think there are ample examples of that. It makes sense that people would lose balance as they move from a group with all the answers to the uncertainty of real life.
The goal of Mormonism isn't salvation and eternal life, which everyone but the Outer Darkness crowd gets as a participation trophy. LDS doctrine establishes that all that really matters is exaltation. In exchange, the church demands basically everything: all time, all wealth, all social and familial loyalty. Ultimately the church can take as much of each of those as it wants. So yes, when people discover the truth and defect from the faith, they experience intense emotions because they realize the scope of the deception and the sacrifices that were exacted.
I would ask, however, if people who leave other cults experience something similar. If the sense of betrayal is a function of wasted investment, then those who apostasize from other religious or political cults might well undergo similar emotional trauma.
Perhaps some of the anger dissipates if the defector from one cult moves quickly to another, or from a religious cult to the political equivalent. I think there are ample examples of that. It makes sense that people would lose balance as they move from a group with all the answers to the uncertainty of real life.
Lot's Wife Wrote:
> I would ask, however, if people who leave other
> cults experience something similar.
Yes, that was what I was wondering, and googling other religions to discover whether there were recovery spaces or boards like this one for other religions, and I didn't stumble across any. Which led me to the question if there was more sense of rage and betrayal from this 'religion' than from others out there.
> those who apostasize from other religious or
> political cults might well undergo similar
> emotional trauma.
Yes. I spent a short time with the Baptist faith. There I was given free coffee, free refreshments, never asked to clean anything, there was a professional choir and paid childcare for anyone who wanted to use it. I drifted away but felt no anger toward them, possibly because although they didn't 'promise' me much they also didn't ask much from me, either. I was free to come or go in t-shirt and jeans.
> It makes sense that people would lose
> balance as they move from a group with all the
> answers to the uncertainty of real life.
Yes, although I think the answers I find or carve out for myself or with the help of others, particularly from this board, will be more true than theirs!
> I would ask, however, if people who leave other
> cults experience something similar.
Yes, that was what I was wondering, and googling other religions to discover whether there were recovery spaces or boards like this one for other religions, and I didn't stumble across any. Which led me to the question if there was more sense of rage and betrayal from this 'religion' than from others out there.
> those who apostasize from other religious or
> political cults might well undergo similar
> emotional trauma.
Yes. I spent a short time with the Baptist faith. There I was given free coffee, free refreshments, never asked to clean anything, there was a professional choir and paid childcare for anyone who wanted to use it. I drifted away but felt no anger toward them, possibly because although they didn't 'promise' me much they also didn't ask much from me, either. I was free to come or go in t-shirt and jeans.
> It makes sense that people would lose
> balance as they move from a group with all the
> answers to the uncertainty of real life.
Yes, although I think the answers I find or carve out for myself or with the help of others, particularly from this board, will be more true than theirs!
>Yes, that was what I was wondering, and googling other religions to discover whether there were recovery spaces or boards like this one for other religions, and I didn't stumble across any.
I found several for ex-JWs, a couple for ex-scientologists, one for ex-Catholics, one for ex-fundamentalist Christians, and one just for ex-Christians.
A fair number of these appear to be sponsored by other religions however.
Just google ex-__________ (fill in the blank).
I found several for ex-JWs, a couple for ex-scientologists, one for ex-Catholics, one for ex-fundamentalist Christians, and one just for ex-Christians.
A fair number of these appear to be sponsored by other religions however.
Just google ex-__________ (fill in the blank).
There are a fair number of websites and/or people who have done exposes on the cult experience. A lot of their stories are similar to ours; I think caffiend fits that bill, so too Beth.
You're right. The Mormon cult promises too much.
My problem was that it DEMANDED too much. Other Christian churches don't demand as much. They give love freely, as normal people do in normal human life. Donations are affordable, and in return, you get an uplifting sermon of hope and love and encouragement! You get a professional speaker, lovely music, a pretty church building with stained glass windows and natural light and cleaner air.
This is a Christian point of view. For Atheists, like my daughter, her anger was that she worked and paid for a bunch of made-up lies!
Worse than the Mormon lies and false promises were the THREATS! Mormons are taught as Primary children, that if they don't obey, they will burn in the Second Coming! They are taught that if their parents are not married in the temple, and if they don't marry in the temple someday--they will be alone in the Hereafter, without any family, and they will "walk past each other as strangers" This is all in the Primary lessons!
As for me, I didn't believe the promises that much, because my heart wasn't into Joseph Smithism that much. I think I got that from my parents, how were devout Mormons with perfect "conduct", but they raised us children on The Bible, instead of the BOM. I was Christian, and much of the Mormon lies were actually anti-Christian. I knew in my heart that polygamy was wrong, no matter what slant the Mormon put on it, no matter how much they lied about it.
To say that only temple Mormons will be "Saved", I feel is blasphemy, and negates the Atonement of Christ. There's an Article of Faith (I forget the number) which, from forced-memorization, states that "We believe that all mankind will be saved...." Then, with typical Mormon false add-ons to the truth, the article goes on to amend this:
"...Through obedience to the laws and ordinances of The Gospel."
By "The Gospel, JS meant, "The COJCOLDS (the Mormon Church).
So, I was furious! I was forced to jump through all the hoops, in order to EARN what was already granted by Christ Himself! I was already "saved" and my family were already promised a place together in the hereafter. The polygamous CK didn't exist--I was relieved to learn the truth about that--and I did not need to pay 10% of my income for life, or "endure to the end" in my temple sealing to a Mormon male who beat me. Loyalty to Mormon beliefs almost killed me, from the abuse, but also exhausted me, depressed me, and discouraged me from ever achieving independence as a woman. TO GREAT A PRICE TO PAY for false promises and empty threats!
Was I angry? I probably ranted and raved on RFM for 3 years! I still do, as you can see from this post.
If it helps you, you are normal. Anger is also one of the emotional stages of accepting a loss in your life. Denial is also a stage, and I can read denial in you, too. The other stages include bargaining and acceptance. I'm having trouble "accepting" the ongoing Mormon abuse and lies--especially when they still try to recruit my grandchildren. Here in Utah, the Mormons just won't leave my family alone.
My problem was that it DEMANDED too much. Other Christian churches don't demand as much. They give love freely, as normal people do in normal human life. Donations are affordable, and in return, you get an uplifting sermon of hope and love and encouragement! You get a professional speaker, lovely music, a pretty church building with stained glass windows and natural light and cleaner air.
This is a Christian point of view. For Atheists, like my daughter, her anger was that she worked and paid for a bunch of made-up lies!
Worse than the Mormon lies and false promises were the THREATS! Mormons are taught as Primary children, that if they don't obey, they will burn in the Second Coming! They are taught that if their parents are not married in the temple, and if they don't marry in the temple someday--they will be alone in the Hereafter, without any family, and they will "walk past each other as strangers" This is all in the Primary lessons!
As for me, I didn't believe the promises that much, because my heart wasn't into Joseph Smithism that much. I think I got that from my parents, how were devout Mormons with perfect "conduct", but they raised us children on The Bible, instead of the BOM. I was Christian, and much of the Mormon lies were actually anti-Christian. I knew in my heart that polygamy was wrong, no matter what slant the Mormon put on it, no matter how much they lied about it.
To say that only temple Mormons will be "Saved", I feel is blasphemy, and negates the Atonement of Christ. There's an Article of Faith (I forget the number) which, from forced-memorization, states that "We believe that all mankind will be saved...." Then, with typical Mormon false add-ons to the truth, the article goes on to amend this:
"...Through obedience to the laws and ordinances of The Gospel."
By "The Gospel, JS meant, "The COJCOLDS (the Mormon Church).
So, I was furious! I was forced to jump through all the hoops, in order to EARN what was already granted by Christ Himself! I was already "saved" and my family were already promised a place together in the hereafter. The polygamous CK didn't exist--I was relieved to learn the truth about that--and I did not need to pay 10% of my income for life, or "endure to the end" in my temple sealing to a Mormon male who beat me. Loyalty to Mormon beliefs almost killed me, from the abuse, but also exhausted me, depressed me, and discouraged me from ever achieving independence as a woman. TO GREAT A PRICE TO PAY for false promises and empty threats!
Was I angry? I probably ranted and raved on RFM for 3 years! I still do, as you can see from this post.
If it helps you, you are normal. Anger is also one of the emotional stages of accepting a loss in your life. Denial is also a stage, and I can read denial in you, too. The other stages include bargaining and acceptance. I'm having trouble "accepting" the ongoing Mormon abuse and lies--especially when they still try to recruit my grandchildren. Here in Utah, the Mormons just won't leave my family alone.
exminion Wrote:
> Christian churches don't demand as much. They give love freely, as normal people do in normal human life. Donations are affordable, and in return, you get an uplifting sermon of hope and love and encouragement!
Yes! That happened to me. When I went to the Baptist church the sermon was about real-life lessons. There was never anything like that in LDS. Just droning on forever about the Atonement.
> You get a professional speaker, lovely music, a pretty church building with stained glass windows
Yes, and you leave feeling better!
> To say that only temple Mormons will be "Saved"
In the Sunday School lesson...they said you can be truly penitent to be judged by mercy instead of justice...but Temple requires money...it just didn't seem to me that both could be right at the same time.
> So, I was furious! I was forced to jump through all the hoops, in order to EARN what was already granted by Christ Himself!
Yes and the SS teacher said that you can't EARN salvation, you merit it (something like that, I could have that wrong).
It is so weird to me that they can say Christ atoned for everyone's sins but you can't get to heaven unless you pay plus do crap stupid work for nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 09:48PM by mel.
> Christian churches don't demand as much. They give love freely, as normal people do in normal human life. Donations are affordable, and in return, you get an uplifting sermon of hope and love and encouragement!
Yes! That happened to me. When I went to the Baptist church the sermon was about real-life lessons. There was never anything like that in LDS. Just droning on forever about the Atonement.
> You get a professional speaker, lovely music, a pretty church building with stained glass windows
Yes, and you leave feeling better!
> To say that only temple Mormons will be "Saved"
In the Sunday School lesson...they said you can be truly penitent to be judged by mercy instead of justice...but Temple requires money...it just didn't seem to me that both could be right at the same time.
> So, I was furious! I was forced to jump through all the hoops, in order to EARN what was already granted by Christ Himself!
Yes and the SS teacher said that you can't EARN salvation, you merit it (something like that, I could have that wrong).
It is so weird to me that they can say Christ atoned for everyone's sins but you can't get to heaven unless you pay plus do crap stupid work for nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 09:48PM by mel.
check out this link....helped me a lot to know what i have. sort of like when the doctor finally gives a name to what is ailing you. it may not be good but at least you know what it is. hope his helps you
https://www.babcp.com/review/RTS.aspx
https://www.babcp.com/review/RTS.aspx
Thank you, Darla. That is very helpful!
:)
:)
Yes, I have been dismayed and horrified at some of the stories I have read here.
I just kept wondering why no one warned me....then I get mad at myself for giving them so much time and money without really checking out research for myself first.
At least I got out after a year, not imprisoned for decades like some here who grew up with it....I'm glad of that.
I just kept wondering why no one warned me....then I get mad at myself for giving them so much time and money without really checking out research for myself first.
At least I got out after a year, not imprisoned for decades like some here who grew up with it....I'm glad of that.
U r very welcome....and read wife#19 by Eliza web young...that finished me off...take care
churches promise life after death but you have to die to find out if they are lying.
Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> churches promise life after death but you have to
> die to find out if they are lying.
Yes, I always thought how hilarious it would be if some people did come back from the dead and say, nah, there was nothing there, I want my money back.
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> churches promise life after death but you have to
> die to find out if they are lying.
Yes, I always thought how hilarious it would be if some people did come back from the dead and say, nah, there was nothing there, I want my money back.
And dead people have no recourse
Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> churches promise life after death but you have to
> die to find out if they are lying.
.....lying on that particular topic. Otherwise they have TONS of easily detectable lies going on RIGHT NOW for anyone who REALLY wants to pay attention.
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> churches promise life after death but you have to
> die to find out if they are lying.
.....lying on that particular topic. Otherwise they have TONS of easily detectable lies going on RIGHT NOW for anyone who REALLY wants to pay attention.
I definitely went through a very angry stage, but gratefully it was fairly brief and then I worked through it. I can still be disgusted at times, when I learn that someone has been hurt in some way through association with the Church.
Yes, I felt the rage and betrayal and fleecing by an international corporation that I thought was a charitable organization.
I first did my research but found nothing because it was pre-internet. I joined. I believed. I trusted. It wasn't until I stumbled upon a history book at a university that was academic and well researched that I learned about the lies. It was the huge amount and shamelessness of those lies that enraged me. Lies, lies, lies that made me feel like a sap.
I'm not so angry now but I feel huge sympathy for those I care about who are still trapped by those lies. Most of those friends can hardly survive on the money they earn yet they turn 10% over to a sham corporation that makes money hand over fist. It's a travesty!
I first did my research but found nothing because it was pre-internet. I joined. I believed. I trusted. It wasn't until I stumbled upon a history book at a university that was academic and well researched that I learned about the lies. It was the huge amount and shamelessness of those lies that enraged me. Lies, lies, lies that made me feel like a sap.
I'm not so angry now but I feel huge sympathy for those I care about who are still trapped by those lies. Most of those friends can hardly survive on the money they earn yet they turn 10% over to a sham corporation that makes money hand over fist. It's a travesty!
Pooped Wrote:
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> the huge amount and shamelessness of those lies that enraged me. Lies, lies, lies that made me feel like a sap.
Thank you, pooped.
I felt so stupid that I was taken in. I questioned myself--was I too trusting? Vulnerable in some way? Or just a sap?
I think they have been drawing people in for so long, they have it down to a science.
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> the huge amount and shamelessness of those lies that enraged me. Lies, lies, lies that made me feel like a sap.
Thank you, pooped.
I felt so stupid that I was taken in. I questioned myself--was I too trusting? Vulnerable in some way? Or just a sap?
I think they have been drawing people in for so long, they have it down to a science.
I had a lot of rage at my ex and others. I was angry at the church leaders I dealt with, BUT I never realized that I could "disrespect" mormon leaders like the GAs until I came to this board. I was in SHOCK when I read things said about the GAs and then I realized that we have a right to have RAGE against them.
I had been taught all my life that they were men of God and that must respect them. It was so healing for me to realize finally that they are JUST MEN. I couldn't understand my hatred of Boyd after a letter I received from him. I never was able to listen to a talk he gave after that, though I remained mormon for a while. It is nice to be able to see them as they are.
I had been taught all my life that they were men of God and that must respect them. It was so healing for me to realize finally that they are JUST MEN. I couldn't understand my hatred of Boyd after a letter I received from him. I never was able to listen to a talk he gave after that, though I remained mormon for a while. It is nice to be able to see them as they are.
the thing that broke it open for me was listening to Bruce McConkie speak in person. I had some similar sentiment before at times, but Bruce was so foul and putrid that it forced me to more directly confront the issue: WHY?????? would anyone want to go to a MORmON "heaven" where such a miserable, intolerable POS was also going to be, especially as some one who was exemplary and in charge, and would STILL be running their foul mouth.
depending on who you are and not experience the rage and betrayal for a while, but then something happens and it all comes back, at least a lot of it.
Yesterday was one of those days. Betrayal. More than anything. I didn't feel rage yesterday. Definitely betrayal.
When I saw "Bohemian Rhapsody," I felt so MOVED. When he sat down at the piano at the Live Aid Concert and said, "I've paid my dues, time after time. I've done my sentence, but committed no crime.And bad mistakes, I've made a few. I've had my share of sand kicked in my face, but I've come through." Wow! Did he ever speak to me!
The church used and abused me. I lived like they told me to. I wanted a life with no problems, like they said I would if I was a good little girl. When my cousin's husband got called as a MP and now my aunt's family is so full of themselves yet again (while they make their gay son continue to live a straight life--my sister said he can't be gay in that family), and I thought, "What about my life? What did I do wrong?" And then I thought of the great mormon men I worked with, who are wonderful beyond words. They aren't what I grew up with. Meeting them when I went to work was AMAZING. And I thought, "Why aren't they mission presidents? Why was my uncle a bishop, but my boss was his counselor?" I knew who the really good man was.
I've had my rage. ASk anyone on this board. Betrayal more than anything.
This current bishop even stopped me yesterday and told me he would make sure NOBODY came to my door from the ward anymore. I wrote him a note and told him I'VE RESIGNED. Leave me alone, as they don't leave me alone.
When it is constantly in your face, it keeps coming back to bring back the rage and betrayal.
Yesterday was one of those days. Betrayal. More than anything. I didn't feel rage yesterday. Definitely betrayal.
When I saw "Bohemian Rhapsody," I felt so MOVED. When he sat down at the piano at the Live Aid Concert and said, "I've paid my dues, time after time. I've done my sentence, but committed no crime.And bad mistakes, I've made a few. I've had my share of sand kicked in my face, but I've come through." Wow! Did he ever speak to me!
The church used and abused me. I lived like they told me to. I wanted a life with no problems, like they said I would if I was a good little girl. When my cousin's husband got called as a MP and now my aunt's family is so full of themselves yet again (while they make their gay son continue to live a straight life--my sister said he can't be gay in that family), and I thought, "What about my life? What did I do wrong?" And then I thought of the great mormon men I worked with, who are wonderful beyond words. They aren't what I grew up with. Meeting them when I went to work was AMAZING. And I thought, "Why aren't they mission presidents? Why was my uncle a bishop, but my boss was his counselor?" I knew who the really good man was.
I've had my rage. ASk anyone on this board. Betrayal more than anything.
This current bishop even stopped me yesterday and told me he would make sure NOBODY came to my door from the ward anymore. I wrote him a note and told him I'VE RESIGNED. Leave me alone, as they don't leave me alone.
When it is constantly in your face, it keeps coming back to bring back the rage and betrayal.
cl2notloggedin Wrote:
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> I didn't feel rage yesterday. Definitely betrayal.
Well, yeah, not being allowed into your daughter's wedding will do that!!!!
>I lived like they told me to.
Yes, obey....but you got uppity... questioning....that's not allowed!!!
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> I didn't feel rage yesterday. Definitely betrayal.
Well, yeah, not being allowed into your daughter's wedding will do that!!!!
>I lived like they told me to.
Yes, obey....but you got uppity... questioning....that's not allowed!!!
My father and his church brought me shame, humiliation, and guilt. That's a machine I can rage against.
A very long time ago, but I remember the pain and anguish of misplaced trust, in both church and marriage.
I was a member of this forum back in its infancy, post #49 is my exit story (long, not precise and concise) and a few of us from this forum met up with Dennis and Rauni, post #50, a really fine couple who have helped many people leaving the LDS church/religion.
Early on in my post/after LDS years there was anger, I felt used, like many of us did/do. I researched and wrote about how much the LDS theological foundation is built upon sand, sand that is continuing to erode away.
I also went through a church finding phase, along with a number of relationships (I've been single most of my adult life). There came a realization that I needed more stability in my life than "bouncing" along in life; there was a need/priority to focus my thoughts on the future and let the past go and get on in life, but to this day, negative anchors remain when I see a King James Bible.
Rather than trying to find a church, I made the choice/goal of trying to find out who God is. Fortunately, I was able to take graduate level theology classes. For me, a turning point during this quest was learning koine Greek (albeit not very good) of the New Testament, back to the original writings of the disciples. It just exploded in a good sort of way.
Fast forward, life is good, I don't know anything or anyone involved in the LDS hierarchy. The Achilles Heel of the LDS teachings is personal relationship with God and His grace, an agape love that I don't fully comprehend.
There is no need/requirement to have "middle men" to separate us from God. :)
Enjoy! :)
I was a member of this forum back in its infancy, post #49 is my exit story (long, not precise and concise) and a few of us from this forum met up with Dennis and Rauni, post #50, a really fine couple who have helped many people leaving the LDS church/religion.
Early on in my post/after LDS years there was anger, I felt used, like many of us did/do. I researched and wrote about how much the LDS theological foundation is built upon sand, sand that is continuing to erode away.
I also went through a church finding phase, along with a number of relationships (I've been single most of my adult life). There came a realization that I needed more stability in my life than "bouncing" along in life; there was a need/priority to focus my thoughts on the future and let the past go and get on in life, but to this day, negative anchors remain when I see a King James Bible.
Rather than trying to find a church, I made the choice/goal of trying to find out who God is. Fortunately, I was able to take graduate level theology classes. For me, a turning point during this quest was learning koine Greek (albeit not very good) of the New Testament, back to the original writings of the disciples. It just exploded in a good sort of way.
Fast forward, life is good, I don't know anything or anyone involved in the LDS hierarchy. The Achilles Heel of the LDS teachings is personal relationship with God and His grace, an agape love that I don't fully comprehend.
There is no need/requirement to have "middle men" to separate us from God. :)
Enjoy! :)
"There is no need/requirement to have 'middle men' to separate us from God."
That is true. No matter how one defines "God."
That is true. No matter how one defines "God."
Yes, no need!
Good thoughts here, thanks.
Good thoughts here, thanks.
I felt betrayed by the leaders of the church. Violently.
That’s how the con game works, just the way Joseph Smith knew all along. Just take, take and take until someone says enough. I’m surprised Mormonism is still legal, given its high potential for abuse.
Being sold a bogus religion is like buying a lemon. Unlike the car, you don’t get anything back. They take it all and smash the remaining bits. Maybe the Jesus freaks were right. Death is the only salvation.
Being sold a bogus religion is like buying a lemon. Unlike the car, you don’t get anything back. They take it all and smash the remaining bits. Maybe the Jesus freaks were right. Death is the only salvation.
babyloncansuckit Wrote:
>I’m surprised Mormonism is still legal, given its high potential for abuse.
Yes, and thank goodness for the Net, without it I would not have found stuff out so quickly.
> They take it all and smash the remaining bits.
Yes, it is so weird. Don't even give any credit, one story on here about tithing for years and then when hard times came, having to beg for the storehouse privileges. Smash any remaining self-esteem.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 03:03PM by mel.
>I’m surprised Mormonism is still legal, given its high potential for abuse.
Yes, and thank goodness for the Net, without it I would not have found stuff out so quickly.
> They take it all and smash the remaining bits.
Yes, it is so weird. Don't even give any credit, one story on here about tithing for years and then when hard times came, having to beg for the storehouse privileges. Smash any remaining self-esteem.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 03:03PM by mel.
Mormonism is a con game from the Old West.
They sell you some nebulous exaltation in the future for cash on the barrel in the here and now.
They sell you some nebulous exaltation in the future for cash on the barrel in the here and now.
Elyse Wrote:
> They sell you some nebulous exaltation in the
> future for cash on the barrel in the here and now.
Yup. Hahaha, cash on the barrel!!! Great analogy!
> They sell you some nebulous exaltation in the
> future for cash on the barrel in the here and now.
Yup. Hahaha, cash on the barrel!!! Great analogy!
It is some comfort to know my feelings are shared by many here.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 04:28PM by mel.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 04:28PM by mel.
I would be a liar not to admit that I didn't feel betrayed. The church promised a lot and delivered squat. The brainwashing is atrocious. More often than not, leaders used whatever means were necessary to justify the ends. As I was reading some of the replies, I had a flashback of a long buried memory. What other organization would go this far to force a 14 year old to comply with a church service project?
It was a rainy Saturday morning. Both my parents had left to run errands. I woke up to the knocking on the front door around 8:30 am. The fact that the YM prez was knocking was not objectionable, save for the fact that I had previously told the teacher's quorum that I would not be attending their Saturday service project. I was alone in my house.
Here's where they crossed the line. The boys and Brother Blowhard were not content that nobody was answering the front door. So they went around to the side of my house. That's when Brother Blowhard began chanting and clapping out my name. I was still under the covers in my bed, hoping that they would leave. Next I heard our telescoping aluminum ladder (that was hanging on the side of the garage) being dragged on the ground. Feeling that I was under attack, I left the security of my bedroom and retreated to the hallway. I heard the ladder bang against the side of the house. One of my church friends shouted "He's not in his room."
For the next 10 minutes, different members of the teacher's quorum attempted to "break in" into my home. They tried several sliding doors from the outdoor patio area to gain entry, but gave up in frustration. They continually kicked the glass door in disgust. Had there been a working telephone in the hallway, I most certainly would have called the sheriff. Even after they left my driveway, I was paralyzed with fear. So irrational to the point that I thought they were parked on the street. Again, what type of organization would promote this type of behavior?
A note was addressed to my parents. It said that Messy had called them for a ride, but that he had hid himself when they came to pick him up. It said that such behavior was un Christ like (the exact words that would TRIGGER my TBM mom to believe Brother Blowhard over me) and that I would have to stay after church for a special interview.
I remember that my mom was dumbfounded that I had called for a ride when I was sound asleep, but she TRUSTED and BELIEVED him. She told me, "I don't know what type of games you're playing, but you go out of your way to embarrass me. Brother ______ is a great man that works very hard to teach you correct principles and how do you thank him? By causing problems and giving him grief."
And when I complained about such behavior of PH leaders, I was told to stop lying and to not criticize the Lord's annointed.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 02:55PM by messygoop.
It was a rainy Saturday morning. Both my parents had left to run errands. I woke up to the knocking on the front door around 8:30 am. The fact that the YM prez was knocking was not objectionable, save for the fact that I had previously told the teacher's quorum that I would not be attending their Saturday service project. I was alone in my house.
Here's where they crossed the line. The boys and Brother Blowhard were not content that nobody was answering the front door. So they went around to the side of my house. That's when Brother Blowhard began chanting and clapping out my name. I was still under the covers in my bed, hoping that they would leave. Next I heard our telescoping aluminum ladder (that was hanging on the side of the garage) being dragged on the ground. Feeling that I was under attack, I left the security of my bedroom and retreated to the hallway. I heard the ladder bang against the side of the house. One of my church friends shouted "He's not in his room."
For the next 10 minutes, different members of the teacher's quorum attempted to "break in" into my home. They tried several sliding doors from the outdoor patio area to gain entry, but gave up in frustration. They continually kicked the glass door in disgust. Had there been a working telephone in the hallway, I most certainly would have called the sheriff. Even after they left my driveway, I was paralyzed with fear. So irrational to the point that I thought they were parked on the street. Again, what type of organization would promote this type of behavior?
A note was addressed to my parents. It said that Messy had called them for a ride, but that he had hid himself when they came to pick him up. It said that such behavior was un Christ like (the exact words that would TRIGGER my TBM mom to believe Brother Blowhard over me) and that I would have to stay after church for a special interview.
I remember that my mom was dumbfounded that I had called for a ride when I was sound asleep, but she TRUSTED and BELIEVED him. She told me, "I don't know what type of games you're playing, but you go out of your way to embarrass me. Brother ______ is a great man that works very hard to teach you correct principles and how do you thank him? By causing problems and giving him grief."
And when I complained about such behavior of PH leaders, I was told to stop lying and to not criticize the Lord's annointed.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 02:55PM by messygoop.
Wow. This is horrifying on many levels. First the refusal to take 'no' then the attempts to break in then the lying and punishment (stay after for special interview).
I am sorry that happened to you, especially at 14 years old. I would have been scarred for life.
Take care, Messy!
I am sorry that happened to you, especially at 14 years old. I would have been scarred for life.
Take care, Messy!