So my younger brother is getting married this week. In a mormon temple, of course. I am estranged from the rest of our family. He's the only one I was on speaking terms with. The estrangement was totally my choice. I reached a point where I was no longer willing to play their games and pretend everything is fine. I accept that.

This wedding will be the first time I see my "family" in over a year or more. There will be family photos outside the temple followed by a reception a few hours later. I had been planning to talk to my brother in-person about not going to the temple and just making an appearance at the reception, but he canceled on me and I had to do it by text.

The thought of going to the wedding at all makes me sick with disgust (at the church and my family) and anxiety, so not going to the temple but going to the reception was supposed to be a compromise. Now lil' bro is upset with me and basically saying I'm ruining their perfect day by not being in the photos. He said he bought us (me and my spouse) flowers and ties for the photos. He never told us that. I've technically never even received an invitation. He texted me the time and location.

Anyway, a big reason I "broke up" with the rest of the family is because of all the guilt and pressure to just get along and pretend everything is fine. Now lil' bro is doing the exact same thing. What gets me more than anything is that it's working. I feel guilty. Its his wedding so I should do whatever he wants, right? Never mind that I'm the one he turned to when our mother started a smear campaign against his fiance. Never mind that I'm the one who helped him move. Apparently that doesn't count if I don't smile for the photos with my awful family in front of the disgusting temple.

So folks, what do I do? This feels like the moment I either capitulate to keep this one sibling in my life, or I say no and am out of the entire family for ever. Ya know, I think I just answered my own question. What kind of people would ask me to make a choice like that? Not the kind of people I would want in my life. But goddamn it all, I still feel effin' guilty!

I never show up to stand outside the temple. My family knows this. Why can't they take a picture at the reception with you in it?

The whole temple charade is one of the worst displays of shunning TSCC has in their bag of tricks. I refuse to participate.

Yes, this day is about your brother and his bride. You can show up at the reception and mingle with family. I am sure he will be glad to see you.

Thank you. I know this is the right call, and hearing this gives me strength to follow through.

Sttanger-

This may seem trite, but First, be true to yourself. Don't sell yourself out to Anyone, on good terms or not...
Let some (a few, maybe none) interact with u on at leasr a 50/50 basis, many ChurchCo members can't or won't do that.

So true. Thank you.

"Sorry I can't make it to the temple, but I'm looking forward to the reception and being in photos there. Thank you for seeing to flowers and ties. I didn't know about this until now but I do appreciate the effort and can use them in the reception pictures. See you soon. Your Loving Brother."

That's a perfect response! Simple, loving, and direct.

Perfect.

I did it once. Joined them outside the temple for a photo--youngest sister. I regret it. I felt like a prop. I felt demeaned. If you did it I do believe that you would feel about as important as the flowers and the tie.

Do not jump through their hoops, but do go to the reception. Your appearance there could go two ways with a TBM family. They may be glad to see you and share the love.

On the other hand they also may use it as an opportunity to guilt you and show resentment that you never showed to the temple and RUINED the photos. Someone invented doors to fix this situation. Don't be afraid to use the one with the exit sign over it--especially if it is an emergency door and will make a lot of loud buzzing.


You thought you were bonding with your brother by helping with the fiance and the move. As long as you are useful they will always be nice. See how it goes when you are not being useful by plumping up their pictures?

Either way it turns out, if you go to the reception you will have shown class and will always feel like you did the right thing even if you do find it necessary to walk out to preserve you own self esteem.

For myself, I stopped going to even the receptions. Have never regretted it.

Voice of experience—-harsh painful experience. Thank you for sharing, Done. Glad you are here.

Gemini is right. It's pretty extreme to say that by not being at the temple you are "ruining the whole day". A more normal response would be to say, "We'd love to include you in the photos but we understand your feelings. We'll see you at the reception."

Your post brings up all the guilt I've felt for the times I've been asked my opinion by family about mundane subjects and then shouted at for having an opposing opinion and not even knowing it was a sensitive subject. You can't be all things to all people. Family control gets me every time too. It's why I've always had better relationships with my family when I lived out of state but everything goes sour when I have to be physically near them. I can do no right unless I apologize for everything I do and say.

This is why I plan a major move when my mother dies. She's the only sane person in our family and I'm caring for her near the rest of the family in her old age because they wouldn't do it.

You shouldn't feel guilty for simply being yourself but, HANG IT, family can always make us feel like slime when they don't get their way.

I feel your pain stranger. Keep reminding yourself that it's alright to be yourself. They're the ones who are behaving immaturely. I know. It's still hard.

Your brother will still be married after all is said and done. Presumably he's happy with that decision and your presence or lack thereof won't change the outcome of the day.

So do whatever you want to do. As Elizabeth Bennett once said:

"I am only resolved to act in that manner, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my happiness, without reference to you, or to any person so wholly unconnected with me."

jacob Wrote:
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> As Elizabeth Bennett once said:

Ha! Opportune quote, indeed, Jacob! Love that scene.

This is about boundaries. If they bought tie/flowers without asking you first, that’s on them.

If you decide to go stand outside a building where you are not invited in, that’s on you.

I’d be inclined to give the perfect letter as above, try the reception but always keep in mind the exit sign as Posted above.

Never let yourself be disrespected. :)

good luck and post after to let us know how it went. You aren’t a stranger here, but a friend.

They're manipulating you because they WANT you to feel guilty; they only want you to be part of the clan *on their terms*.

Sure, you can fake-pose at the temple, but you might as well be a cardboard cutout to them. Or you can be true to yourself and your principles, and show up at the reception instead. How they react to you will determine what kind of relationship they want to have. Just make sure you leave yourself a clear exit in case things go south.

My first question would be do I need to travel to get there. If the answer is yes, I would stay home.

If the answer is no, show up at the reception and leave it things get weird or tense.

For me a never Mo the answer is simple, if I can't come to the actual wedding, you are only begging for a gift by asking me to the reception.

I was in a similar situation when my child nephew died.

I went to the viewing, sought out my mother who I hadn't seen in 20 years, gave her a hug and then stepped away.

I then greeted my other family members and then went and sat in the funeral home chapel. Some family members joined me from time to time to pass the time. Except for my brother and a sister who lived close to me, I hadn't seen them for 20 years either.

I wouldn't wait outside the temple. In my day, photos were taken before the reception, not outside the temple. I don't know when that changed, but it is their change, not yours and you don't need to be burdened by it. In other words, you don't need to go to the temple.

In yet other words, show up late, leave early and minimize contact.

My sister's wedding was more than thirty years ago and the importance was already established then that having the photos in front of the temple was de rigueur for TBM LDS Mormons. No foto album was worthy without bridal party in front of the gigantic pedestal on which the gold statue Mormoni could stand--which is what Mormon temples are.

That was hard to read about your mother. You handled it beautifully.

Welcome to RFM, friendly "stranger."

I have been in your situation, several times, and I have tried all approaches. When my daughter got married in the temple, my other children and I were in the process of leaving the cult. The bishop said I could attend the temple ritual, if I paid tithing for the 6 months, leading up to the wedding date. I talked with my daughter, and offered her the money I would have had to pay to the cult. It would have been a nice nest-egg for her and her fiancee, who was still in school. She said she wanted me at her wedding ceremony, because no one else would be there for her, except my TBM brothers and the officiator, who was our cousin. None of her bridesmaids had been through the temple yet, so they were "out." Her fiancee was the oldest in his family, and all his siblings were too young to go. Yes--guilt! My poor daughter in there all alone! Getting married, without anyone there!

My little granddaughter wanted me to go to her baptism. Such a fuss was being made over her, and that she "CHOSE" to be baptized, and I would have been the apostate grandma, not giving her emotional support, bla-bla. Guilt, again.

I have forced myself to go to funerals held in LDS chapels, and have sat through all the preaching of the "plan of salvation" and threats that apostates like me will be forever separated from my loved ones.

Not only are we guilted into attending these phony displays of cultishness--we are insulted and demeaned, when we are there!

My daughter's wedding, like most temple weddings, was institutional, and not at all about "loving, cherishing, being companions to each other." Those words are NOT PRESENT in the Mormon temple marriage ceremony. People have posted actual copies of the dialog here. All officiators stick to the ritual dialog, and it takes about 3 minutes. The rest of it is preaching, like, the officiator is giving a sacrament meeting talk. The couple make vows to the cult in the same single sentence that they say "I do" to the marriage! I felt sick to my stomach, when my daughter had to say "I do" to this. The groom was crying tears of joy, and my daughter was looking horrified. She looked horrified in the pictures, too. I had instructed the photographer to be at the reception early for photos, and to take pictures of the reception. The TBM new in-laws paid the photographer extra, to photograph at the temple, and too much time was spent, and there was no time for the reception photos! I didn't buy any of the temple pictures.

Don't go to the temple at all. It makes no sense to to, if you aren't welcome inside for the wedding ceremony. It makes no sense to be in a fake photo with a fake smile in front of an ugly fake temple door that does not open for you.

(Sorry to rant, but my ex-husband and his new wife waited outside the temple for our daughter's wedding, and were in all of the photos. My TBM bishopric brother photoshopped them out of one of the photos, and sent it to me! You might go to all that trouble, and end up being photoshopped out, anyway!)

I have found out, the hard way, that every time I take the "high road" and go to Mormon events--it backfires--big-time! I end up having PTSD flashbacks, and getting sick. The Mormons don't appreciate my being there. Someone always hits on me and tells me to read the BOM.

I was glad I was at my daughter's wedding and endowment, for other reasons. She had me to listen to her, when she discovered for herself how crazy and ritualistic the temple is. After the wedding ceremony and temple photos in the 100 degree heat, were over, my daughter started to cry, and said, "This is NOT what I thought my wedding would be like!" I said, "All that was really nothing. You are married because you and your husband signed the legal marriage license. Your REAL wedding hasn't started yet. Tonight, we are going to have the wedding reception of your dreams! It will be exactly as you have planned it. EVERYONE will be there, and will have a great time!

At my granddaughter's baptism, I was holding her baby brother, who would not stop crying, and I had to take him in and out. My daughter accused me of "frowning".

You think you can control your own experience, right? Normally, you can. With the cult, the Mormons have to be in complete charge. I thought I could just avert my eyes from the 3 men in white jumpsuits, escorting 3 little girls in white nightgowns and long blonde braids. In the lobby, my SIL handed me a camera, and asked me to take everyone's picture, and I had to look at them. It triggered a very bad memory from my Mormon past, and I felt violently ill.

At the wedding reception, I had to listen to gossip and questions about my sons, who had not been at the temple ceremony. I would only say, "This is a party for the bride and groom--let's not talk about religion or politics!" So, even though I was "accepted", and paid money for it, I still had to bear the wrath against my own sons, and also my ex-husband, and and answer questions about the bridesmaids (who were merely too young to be included.)

You can't win!

You can control part of the situation, however. Politely refuse to talk about religion and politics (throw politics in there, too, because politics is not sacred, and neither is Mormonism). Step away from the conversation, if it gets snarky and judgmental. If you don't want to head to the EXIT door, go to the punch table, or walk out onto a balcony, or say "hello" to someone else.

Say, "Excuse me", and just quietly walk away. Don't explain, or say "I'm sorry...." If you show weakness, you will feel like you have let yourself down. Your wife will be with you, and you can turn to her at any time, and say, "Oh, did you remember to let the dog out?" Change the subject. The good thing about wedding receptions, is that you can keep circulating. Deep conversations are easily avoided.

Never sit down! You don't want to be stuck with talking to the people next to you.

YES--write the exact note that Cheryl suggested!

YES--go and enjoy the reception and celebrate with your brother and his bride, ON YOUR TERMS. You seem to be on their side! You are a good brother, and you really have watched their back, in the past.

I don't go to most Mormon wedding receptions, I send an appropriate gift, from their registry. If anyone asks, I say that I have other plans, but I'm happy for the bride and groom. Everyone is happy with that.

To add to what Exminion is saying, if someone is rude to you, respond to the question that they *should* have asked, i.e. "Why thank you for asking. My family and I are doing quite well. Work is going great, and we're looking forward to summer travels. Oh look, there's cousin Jimmy. I must go say hello."

I'd let them know that you're honored to come to the reception. But since you aren't invited to attend the wedding, you won't be there. Tell them you look forward to wearing the flowers and the tie and will happily appear in the photos at the reception.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2019 07:15PM by Devoted Exmo.

Weddings are the one time when everything is supposed to be about the bride--and the groom as well, possibly. :)

Some brides turn into bridezillas and some grooms turn into groomzillas--AKA bridezilla's accomplice. Emotions run high. The expectations of having the perfect wedding are through the roof. Supposed to be the biggest day of your life! People get carried away. Hopefully the whole extravaganza will be paid for before the divorce.

For regular weddings I find this forgivable. But I don't know of any other wedding where a family member would be excluded unless perhaps the groom's brother had stabbed the bride's brother.

Mormons though! Any or all of the family can be excluded but still be expected to be at the beck and call of the Temple marrying couple. The Mormons do not see the insult. They consider you have brought the exclusion upon yourself by not being worthy as you walk hand in hand through life with Lucifer. Because of this they consider themselves not to blame and are oblivious to how insulting the snub is.

The situation is a no-win for the Exmo because the Mormon family have already declared righteous victory and your hurt feelings only strengthen their position. At this point they are all just Mormonzillas.

So, you do what is best for you. You could forgive. You could go along to get along. But deep in our gut we know that the high road often leads straight off a cliff.

You have to ask yourself, one day when you visit the couple and the wedding pictures are on the mantel, how would you feel seeing yourself there. Like truly part of the family? Or like the Taxidermied deer head just above the photo?

I know people who can just go and do the photo thing and not think a thing of it. Good for them. I'm not one of them.

I agree with many of your sentiments. For me, I am willing to celebrate the wedding by attending a reception, if invited and they are family members or people I care about. But I will absolutely not wait outside of a temple I'm not invited to be inside. I draw the line and tell them so. That's not on me. It's on them.

Mormomzilla. Deer head. Ha! Good post Done. Humorous yet pithy. :)

"I'm ruining their perfect day by not being in the photos."

They're going to dress up in wacky clothes and hats, and do ripped-off Masonic handshakes, and be married without people they care about being able to be there.

THAT is ruining a "perfect day." Not you.

Just FYI, I was already out of the church in all but name when my brother got married in the SLC temple. But I went anyway, and snuck in. Those were the days before computer temple-recommend entries, so I just pretended that I had lost mine, and my brother, step-dad, and uncle (who was at the time the official church spokesman) all vouched for me (being a recently returned missionary), and I got in. It was all I could to to not laugh out loud during the session.

And the thing is...the "wedding" part was so short and so...uneventful...that afterwards I wondered why I had bothered. It was basically just another boring temple session, with about 10 minutes tacked on at the end to have the celestial bride and groom kneel and say a few words. That was it.

I went to the temple for my daughter's wedding on January 26th. It was difficult, but SHE IS MY DAUGHTER. She isn't their's. My ex wasn't going to go, but I reminded him that she is our's. Her twin brother, also out of the church, went, too, as well as my boyfriend and my ex's old boyfriend.

The most difficult part was my aunt sending me an e-mail giving me a play by play of what happened in the temple including the 55 steps up to the sealing room from the chapel. We've had quite an ongoing discussion about that since. (Part of her e-mail is in a thread somewhere on this site.)

I'd go. It may be difficult, BUT I would still do it again because my daughter is a part of me. Being it is my daughter, it is a different thing, but your brother has needed you to be on his side for other things like the smear campaign against your brother's fiance. He obviously needs you in a family who isn't exactly even supportive of the active mormon members. Your mother has her own issues obviously. I'd go just for your brother. It is his day. It will be difficult. Just be prepared for that. I don't regret going. It isn't any different than the bullshit the mormons dish out over other things.

P.S. All those family members who will be at the temple will also be at the reception. They can be just as obnoxious at the reception, if not more so, than at the temple.

I went 30 minutes after the ceremony was supposed to start. When I got to the temple, everyone was outside except the bride and groom. I was the one at the door when she came out and she hugged me first, then her dad. My aunt asked me what were the most something moments, (something mormon sounding) and I said the most important of the whole day was when she walked into her mother's arms. My daughter was there with only a few family members. The only family member she knew well is my sister, who I haven't gotten along with in the last 13 years for the most part, but she and her kids were a big part of my kids' lives. I decided that I would go to the temple with flowers for my sister. I walked straight towards her, gave her the flowers, hugged her and told her I loved her and how much I appreciated that she was with my daughter in the temple. My sister had reminded me a few years ago (when my daughter was going to get married then) that her children and grandchildren would be on the outside with me.

See, that is what I have. Most of my family is out. My daughter is the only grandchild/great grandchild of my parents' who is active mormon. My parents are dead. My parents would have chosen to be outside with me, but I would insisted they go inside, but just as I was walking my dogs, I realized my dad would walk right out and throw his arms around me, my big strong dad, and say how much he loved me. THEY KNOW what I've done for my kids.

And going to the temple was one of the easier things I've done for my daughter. It will be something she will forever remember and have to live with, too. There will come a day when she realizes what I went through for HER and her brother, probably when I'm dead.

The great thing is that I told her 6 years ago who she was supposed to marry as I had a premonition. I have a lot of them. She fought it, but ended up marrying him. I won.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2019 11:43AM by cl2.

Why is it considered "the high road" to play along with mormon rituals and expectations?

It seems more honest and real to be authentic and do what seems right to me.

Absolutely agree with GNPE1. Go on your terms. Staying away only fuels the negative ideas they likely already have about your separation.