5 mishies came into CFA while I was eating yesterday. It stuck me oddly, but wasn't going to post until I was sort of re-inspired by Cheryl's "What I dislike most about Mormons" thread.

The comments that made an impression on me were these:


> I don't like how mormons seem to think they are so
> very special

> They also seem to think that others should
> appreciate and honor them for having weird ideas.

> they don't have a right to expect others to
> pretend to think that the dumb ideas mean they are
> smart and are entitled to undeserved respect.


Anyway, so 4 of the elders had ordered, and the 5th was next and the only person in line (it wasn't busy). Two police officers walked in, and elder #5 steps back, obviously gonna let the two police officers go ahead. Ok, nice gesture, but the policemen don't approach the line, they stop near the door, look around for a second, and one heads to the restroom.

The counter person is saying "next" and elder #5 holds up his index finger, as if to say "wait." He also keeps looking at the police officer who is ignoring him, or seems to be (he's wearing sunglasses), and is on his cell phone.

At some point, when #5 thinks he has the officer's attention, he starts making an arms sweeping "you go first" gesture, and the officer--who's not even in line--shakes his head side to side and turns a bit away.

This has all gone on an awkwardly long time (and it's just creepy). There are multiple cashiers ready to take orders, there's no one else in line, the officer isn't interested in ordering yet, he's on the phone, clearly waiting on his partner, etc. Even if #5 went ahead and ordered, the police officer could step up to a different cashier without skipping a beat. In other words, #5 is trying to force the police officer to accept a "favor" that doesn't even need to be done.

In spite of all that, instead of ordering, #5 steps towards the officer and again does the "you go first" gesture. Well, the police officer was having none of it. He holds his phone against his chest to mute it, looks directly at #5, points to the counter and barked in a very authoritative tone, "place your order."

Every head in the dining room turned to look as #5 slinked to the counter.

It was one of those "I'm gonna do this thing for you because we're special" moments. They want to show everyone how "great" they are because they already mistakenly believe that everyone thinks they're great.

Anyway, hard to quantify it all. Perhaps you had to be there.

Hardcore virtue signaling!

That cop is in trouble with Holy McGhost.

Would the kid have put on the same show if a homeless person walked in? "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren...."

If a homeless person walked into Chick Fil A for a sandwich? What?

Your hypothetical doesn't really make sense.

Also, why would someone extend the same courtesy to a homeless person who contributes nothing to society as they would a police officer who puts their life on the line every day to help maintain the rule of law?

That would be weird.

justkeepswimming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, why would someone extend the same courtesy
> to a homeless person who contributes nothing to
> society as they would a police officer who puts
> their life on the line every day to help maintain
> the rule of law?

It is the missionaries Mormon-acculturation to kowtowing to authority and disrespecting the needy.

Do I have to be the one to point out that nowhere did the OP say homeless people were involved in this story?

You're literally patting each on the back for a strawman.

You literally SET UP the straw man. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

Keep scrolling up. I'll wait.

I won't wait for an apology.

Again, YOU first keyed on the mention of homeless people. YOU made it an issue, THEN threw gasoline on the fire by stating their lives aren't worth the same as cops.

Troll much? I've seen other posts of yours; trolling is pretty much all you do.

If you had bothered to scroll up, you'd notice it was Aloysius who brought up the homeless scenario, and I replied to it.

Again, I won't wait for an apology. Neither will our law enforcement officers to risk their lives every day to maintain the rule of law.

You might be surprised that we're not all waiting around for you and your gun to keep us safe.

justkeepswimming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a homeless person walked into Chick Fil A for a
> sandwich? What?
>
> Your hypothetical doesn't really make sense.
>
> Also, why would someone extend the same courtesy
> to a homeless person who contributes nothing to
> society as they would a police officer who puts
> their life on the line every day to help maintain
> the rule of law?
>
> That would be weird.

Wow.

First: Homeless people buy things. They buy things at CFA and every other sort of place. I have seen them there many, many times eating fried chicken sandwiches.

Second: Let me get this straight, people who "contribute nothing to society" deserve no courtesy from anyone? What about babies? All they do is lie around and cry. Guess we should let them fend for themselves or starve.

What about people with disabilities who only survive through the help of others or government social programs. Let them starve too, huh? People inwheelchairs have to wait for all yhe righteous, able-bodied people to eat first, huh? What about retirees? "Go to the back of the line where you belong, grandma!"

Third: Homeless people contribute nothing to society? What does this even mean? I'd love to hear your definitive list of what it means to "contribute to society." Prove to me that you--or anyone-- meets this standard.

On this same point, many, many homeless people are military veterans. That "contribution" doesn't count?

Fourth: Police officers do a very important job But it is their JOB. They get paid for it. They get excellent benefits. They can retire early and live for thirty or forty years off their pensions "not contributing anythings else to society." Heck, they din't even have to find legal parking on their lunch breaks, just leave the cruiser anywhere. They deserve common courtrsy, but not special courtesy.

Nice try.

Strawman, strawman, strawman.

1. I never said homeless people don't buy things. I said it would be weird for them to spend so much money on Chick fil a when they're HOMELESS.

2. I never said homeless people don't deserve courtesy. Why would you think that?

3. I'm sorry you think being a police officer is just a job. I have a job. I don't run the risk of being killed doing my BAU job every day. Police do.

It would be great if you didn't marginalize (however popular it is these days) the good work police do in our country.

justkeepswimming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strawman, strawman, strawman.


Hah! I don't think that means what you think it means. :)

I have also seen homeless people in a very affluent CFA. No one cares that they are there, they order and leave. Leave the homeless alone.

I was homeless for 4.5 months in northern Colorado while I worked a full-time job. Homeless people often just need the funds to get grounded

A post that makes we wish we had an up or down vote feature.

justkeepswimming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, why would someone extend the same courtesy
> to a homeless person who contributes nothing to
> society....

This is Marie Antoinette time (even though, evidently, she actually didn't say what has been attributed to her).

Why would you assume that "a homeless person....contributes nothing to society"?

How would YOU know?

You have no idea of whether this person is making the lives of his/her fellow homeless citizens better because of his/her actions and/or presence.

Of whether they are taking care of discarded and abandoned domestic animals, or "wild" animals (like birds) who need help.

Of whether they are taking care of wherever they sleep or "live," or not. (Some homeless people are doing general area clean-up, to the extent of their abilities to do so.)

You have no idea of whether they are living responsibly homeless, or irresponsibly homeless.

How is it possible for you to know ANYTHING about a given person who is homeless?

And what have YOU done lately to help the general plight of our homeless citizens, or to help any of them person-to-person, or as a group?

Re: the homeless situation which exists in this country, what have YOU done to help YOUR fellow citizens at large who are in great need of: food, clothes appropriate for the season, means to wash themselves and their clothes and bedding, menstrual products for women who are homeless, shelter, safety, and help for women who are homeless with their children, and clothes, food, bedding, and toys for their children?

If you are not doing anything to deal with our American problem, maybe it is time for you, yourself, to began contributing SOMETHING.

justkeepswimming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a police officer who puts
> their life on the line every day to help maintain
> the rule of law?

Or a police officer who is corrupt and violent, protects certain criminals while preying on the innocent. He might also be a racist who lets white people do things he won't let black people do.

As for the rule of law, that's how the rich protect themselves from the poor...

Umm, I'm going to guess a big no. My nephew in one of his missionary emails forwarded to me talked of making fun of homeless people like they were in that condition by choice and if they had the church they wouldn't be.

You make a good point there, Aloysius, using their own scripture. And we all know the answer.

I believe a lot of this happened, but there are parts of your story that are just clearly exaggerated.

Also, who cares? You're telling everyone in a Chick fil a was paying that much attention to what was happening at the counter?

Tell us a few things about your missionary experiences, Justkeepswimming, so we can have some facts on which to form some notions about you.

I'm pretty much a realist and I had no trouble understanding where the OP was coming from. But I don't think I know where you're coming from with the above remarks.

Help a brother out, here!

You weren't there but you say parts are "clearly exaggerated?"

I suppose on your mission all your companions behaved, but on mine I had some jack-ass companions like that who did some really embarrassing stuff.

Awkward moments send out their own vibe. People notice.

with, for one, homeless people, and two, thinking that missionaries don't do awkward things.

Ever been sitting in a fast food place and have something happen that was OBVIOUS and everyone was watching? Ever sit in there and have cops walk in? Of course everyone was watching.

I have nothing but empathy for homeless people. I could have easily ended up on the street at one time in my life with my kids in tow. My parents never would have allowed it to happen, but I was fearful of what could happen.

That homeless people don't eat. Or not at Chick-Fil-A, anyway.

How is that not elitist and cruel?

A lot of the replies happened after I posted.

Myself, I have nothing but empathy for homeless people. I know many think I'm crazy, but I give them money when I see them. If they buy alcohol, so be it. If they buy drugs, so be it. I hope they go to chick-fil-a and buy a sandwich.

I was shocked by his comments. I also think he is a troll. I was going to report him, but then replied instead.

I don't have a problem with homeless people. I never said I did.

I said they don't contribute to society. Police officers contribute more than most.

The hypothetical scenario of a homeless person coming into one of the most expensive fast food chains for food is silly. They could buy 3 meals at other fast food joints for the price of 1 at Chick fil A.

You're projecting a lot onto my statements that isn't there. We get enough of that from the media lately. We can do better on RfM.

Speaking of projecting...

Dude, I have worked with LEOs.

They aren't heroes. The majority are the same people who volunteered to be hall monitors in school, or just plain bullied people at recess, and still possess the same mentality.

How many circumstances can you actually name where the presence of a cop has actually *improved* the situation?

You just did a 'judge & jury' thing and you want US to do better?

Now that you've thrust yourself into the judge & jury role here on RfM, tell us something of your mormon past; give us a 'handle' on you. Almost all of us have a few pithy words that we know others use to describe us. What are the few pithy words that describe you, aside from the presumed obvious "does not want to go back to practicing mormonism" thing.

has been treated horribly by police. So I'm not buying into all the hero worship. He was constantly harassed for NOTHING. He had his car searched so many times and they found NOTHING. He looks questionable many times and his car didn't help.

Amazing what a difference since he got a different car.

We don't know the background stories of the homeless people. Many are veterans. Many are people who found themselves like I did--down on their luck, financially ruined. Lost a job. I just lost my 20 year job in October. If I didn't have someone to pay the house payment right now, I would have to sell my house. And my son and I would be on the street. I also could have been on the street as I posted above, my kids and I.

So the judgmental attitude about the homeless really threw me, too.

There is a difference between legit homeless people and bums.

I constantly see bums standing on road medians holding up their cutsie signs and panhandling. I give them no quarter. They do nothing but trash my city and cost taxpayers money to clean up after them.

A long forgotten memory of a peculiar zone conference has surfaced. What made this conference memorable was one of Elder Ballard's car safety broadcasts and then it was brought up that we missionaries were far too careless about where we parked the mission vehicles. I was on a bike and I had already fubbed up my driving privileges so I didn't give a damn about door dings and other scuffs on church owned vehicles. Our MP marched us outside to eyeball all the many scrapes and scratches on the mission vehicles. Our ZL was raked over the coals because he couldn't explain the many ripples in the panels. Even I got into the act by pointing out a non-obvious dent. That was my way of thanking my asshat ZL for refusing to pick up me and my companion. He was pissed off.

We agreed to meet as a zone at Taco Cabana because they had all you could eat pancakes for 4 bucks. It was served through brunch. The sister missionaries claimed that they were watching their figures and didn't care for pancakes. The older senior couple didn't care for Mexican style pancakes. They went elsewhere for lunch. Of course, the arrogant ZL didn't catch on that the sisters and the senior couple weren't joining us for brunch.

When we arrived, the ZL dictated that the other driver follow his lead. There were four spaces. Each mission car was parked near a hedge. That left two spaces empty between the two parked cars. This was his strategy of protecting mission owned vehicles. The district leader tried in vain to convince him that nobody else was coming, but he wouldn't have it. He stayed in the parking lot determined to save those two parking spots. The rest of us went inside.

So we went inside and were enjoying the endless supply of pancakes coming to our table. We all but forgot about the crazy ZL. Then we remembered him when we heard the sound of car horns. He was still standing outside; covered in a heavy sweat. He had been blocking a car from parking next to the missionaries' car. One elder approached the driver of the car to tell him that the young man was disturbed. The driver agreed to park elsewhere. We were all amazed at the zone leader's feat of strength. In the middle of one of the parking space was a heavy duty concrete lined trash receptacle. This ZL had managed to drag the heavy trash can off the curb and positioned it to block one of the spaces. One of the supporting legs had been broken during his effort to move the can. The restaurant manager came outside and asked us to leave. We were no longer welcomed to come to that restaurant.

I'm rather shocked that the missionaries would be eating there.

Aren't their combos around $ 6-7 a pop?

I am embarrassed by a visit to Taco Bell when I served a mission in the 1990s.

A couple of things. Taco Bell was one of the first fast food restaurants that placed the drink machine out into the dining area instead of in the food prep area behind the serving counter. At the time, it was a radical, brand new idea of having "free refills." My companion and I broke our mission rules and biked into another set of missionaries' area to meet them at Taco Bell for lunch. My comp was buddy-buddy with another elder so they planned this over the phone and I agreed to it. Everybody agreed to pay for their own meals.

I don't know which adjective to use for cheap-skate, but I was unprepared for their undue stinginess. The restaurant offered a manager special that included a large drink and burrito for a dollar and 20 cents. Taco Bell still had 49 cent tacos or 59 cent burritos that could be added. I ordered the special. It was very feasible for under two bucks.

The three of them ordered 3 burritos each. Then they mustered up a handful of pennies to buy the smallest cup for 60 cents. Yes, the three of them shared a tiny cup with 3 straws. I was appalled, but they were so proud that every normal person was staring at three 19 year olds sharing a tiny sippy cup. They got up every other minute to refill that cup!

On the way out, I tossed my large paper cup into the trash. One of the elders behind me hit me in the back. "I wanted your cup."

I asked "What for."

-"So I can use it the next time I come here."

And he dug the cup out of the trash and kept it with the small cup.

Hah!

Thanks, Messy. This is how I know the church is true!

There's a fine line in the Mormon church between doing something because it's the good and right thing to do and doing something because the doer is showing how righteous they are by doing a good deed. The line gets blurred sometimes. It's the same with bearing testimonies in F&T meeting. Many just want to stand before the congregation, not because they are truly humble and want to share their testimony, but because they want to show everyone how righteous and special they are. Members learn this by example from a very young age. They learn this by watching conference.

When I was on my mission, knocking on doors in the freezing rain, a nice woman opened her door and said we could come in if we didn't discuss the church. I declined because I was trying to be very self-sacrificing and show that I would rather stay out in the cold than waste time talking to someone who didn't want to hear the gospel. Wasn't I special! I was very proud of myself for a while but then I realized what an ass I was. I still think about that and am embarrassed by myself.

Wow, I'm sort of surprised at the direction this topic took.

Man, I try to word something in such a way as it can't be controversial, and yet...


The point wasn't whether LEOs are good guys or bad guys, or whether people should or shouldn't eat at CFA. It was that the preposterous over-the-top virtue signaling by mishie #5 was ridiculous (and it was).

For the record, I think the question about whether or not #5 would have made the same "gesture" for a homeless person is valid (and I assume that he would not have). Whether or not the homeless person is a "bum" or contributes to society (per anyone's definition) isn't relevant (IMO).

Regarding exaggeration, I pointed out that there was no one else in line, but perhaps I should have mentioned that it was mid afternoon and nearly empty. So, when "everyone" was watching I'm talking maybe half a dozen in a place that otherwise was pretty quiet.


I was reminded of this thread because I happen to be killing time in the same... err... a nameless fast food place where I sometimes kill time because they have wifi and free refills. But no mishies today. ;)


Anyway, thanks to those who understood the thrust of what I was trying to say. :)

From what I gather from conversations around the homeless from my relatives and some of the returned mishies that end up at my work...The homeless do not deserve help or assistance... it is their choice to live that way... the government needs to focus on important things like reading the BofM.(I kid you not...actually heard that one) The only thing Mormons care about are potential tithe payers... everybody else is trash!

The two mishies put their lunches in their car. One of them stood at the rear of the back bumper directing the driver as he backed out of the space. It took forever!

The funny part was that they were not in a tight situation. They had PLENTY of room with no other cars nearby. Yet, they backed an inch or two, pulled forward, and inched back a bit for a good ten minutes.

I think this is actually a rule in some (maybe all) missions. Non-driving companion must be outside the vehicle guiding whenever backing up. Helps protect the Lord's fleet of economy cars from fender benders.

Yes, Gordon, I have also been surprised how easily what one posts here can turn into an off-topic firestorm! The same with comments you make, where people will take one part of one sentence and either run with it into a whole other direction or attack you on it!

I enjoyed your story and did see its relation to virtue signaling. Also enjoyed Messy’s stories as well. Thanks guys!

Your story / observation really does remind me of the nut jobs in TSCC. I knew so many wannabe GA's in the mission field, local wards, etc. Everything is a show...everything is a potential faith promoting story for sacrament meeting.

Police Officers get really good at reading people, and I think the officer knew he was dealing w/ a religious nut job. He could see the guys tag, probably knew he was a weird Mormon, and was not going to have anything to do with it.

Great observation of ordinary Mormon behavior. Such entitlement and want of veneration, but what do you expect for people who believe they will God's in the hereafter. I call it a Ceasar complex. Although much respect for the former Roman emperor, toward the end, he promoted himself to be a God. That's sort of what Morgbots do.