I was responding to your post when Tevai's thread closed. Here is your post, and my reply. This is not meant in anyway to rehash the last thread btw. It is simply to respond to Nightingale's post (since I don't know why Tevai's thread closed prematurely.)
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2244193,2245117#msg-2245117Nightingale Wrote:
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> AJ: "If you see them as a tribe, when the majority
> of them are converts to the church, then they are
> 'adopted' into it until they leave by default, or
> apostasy, or resignation, or excommunication.
>
> Question: What is leaving "by default"?
That typically means when people go inactive by not attending even if not by resigning or because they stopped believing in Mormonism. They are referred to in the Morridor as "Jack Mormons," or used to be. Not sure if that is still the pejorative name used to describe inactive Mormons today in the Utah/Idaho corridor.
>
> Point of Order: I've always objected to Mormons
> calling former members "apostates". It is, by
> definition, pejorative.
>
> The objective dictionary definition may seem
> neutral:
>
> Apostate: "A person who renounces a religious or
> political belief or principle."
>
> True enough.
>
> But Mormons (and other religions - such as JW)
> imbue the term with judgement and contempt, the
> term and its consequences evoking fear in other
> members. With JWs (as I used to be) there is
> nothing worse than being branded 'apostate', a
> traitor to the true faith.
>
> Even the apparent 'neutral' definition I gave
> above lists 'heretic' as a synonym for 'apostate',
> another word full of judgement. One synonym for
> 'heretic' is given as 'renegade', which, in turn,
> is defined as a person who betrays an
> organization, country or principle. 'Turncoat' is
> also a synonym for 'renegade' and is listed
> (obviously) as a pejorative term.
>
> IOW, judgement.
>
> Which most of us have had a bellyful of from
> churches we used to belong to, merely for
> exercising our freedom to choose to leave.
>
> At least as a JW, branding someone as apostate has
> the organization's desired effect: shunning. They
> don't want to risk the leave-taker talking to
> other members, even family, in case the choice to
> quit is catching. The general membership is barred
> from even greeting the exiled former member while
> family members are restricted to only necessary
> interaction and are not allowed to discuss
> religion with the so-called apostate.
>
> Correspondingly, the judgemental term 'apostate'
> instantly conjures up exceptionally negative
> memories and thoughts for me. Using it, to me,
> means falling in with the distorted approach of
> the religious judges who seek to exert control
> over even former members by first branding them as
> evil and second by mandating that current members
> shun the so-called apostate.
>
> Talk about feeling branded. Unjustly so. And it
> ruins relationships and even lives. All to prop up
> the power and control of the "judges in Israel"
> (as JW leaders call themselves) as well as all
> church leaders who preach against former members
> just because they choose a different path.
Interesting take on apostates. Because that's a pejorative that Mormons use with a high rate of frequency to describe those who leave by choice and those who denounce it.
>
> (Sidetrack: JWs identify very strongly with
> Judaism. Long story but may be of interest if
> anyone cares to look it up. They used an elderly
> Jewish man to voice many of the films they showed
> at conferences, at least when I was a JW. I can't
> remember now why they felt the strong connection -
> something to do with their theology. The fact that
> I can't remember is Good News for me. "Good News"
> is an alternate descriptor they use for "The
> Truth" which is how they refer to their faith. For
> me, forgetting the details means I'm far, far away
> from the stranglehold that organization exerts
> over its membership. I still feel the feelings
> though, when something comes up to remind me. Such
> as that one loaded word: Apostate).
Hmm, interesting. I wonder if that had anything to do with why JW kept pestering me until I had to hand deliver a cease and desist letter to the Kingdom Hall in my neighborhood. A "No proselytizing and No soliciting" sign on my door didn't do it.
The men and women who'd show up would say they weren't soliciting. I told them they were. Then a high wind blew the darn proselytizing sign off my door one day, and two days later there they were again! I got tired of plastering my door with those signs that weren't helping enough. The man at the Kingdom Hall was nice though. He said he'd take care of it for me. And since then I haven't had a problem with them. (Hallelujah for that!)
I keep a mezuzah on my doorpost which would be an indicator to JW that I'm Jewish. I told the man at the Kingdom Hall that I do not permit any form of proselytizing because of my religion, so I expect them to honor my request. It is only JW that I've had a problem with, no other religion pesters people the way they do. Not even the Mormons are as pesky where we live here in upstate NY.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 03:32PM by Amyjo.