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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 10:36PM

Mormons consider sexual sins as next to murder in severity.

To a small extent I agree. But only in the case of adultry.

To me the second worse sin is betrayal of trust. Adultry falls into that category, but betrayal is far more.

Recently a now former friend tried to scam me out of millions of dollars. No I am not a millionaire, not even close. This "friend" wanted to purchase a piece of art from me. Offering a few hundred dollars with the intent of reselling it for millions.

The joke is on her, the piece in question is not even worth $200.00.

The sad thing is, she thought it was ok to defraud me. Our 30 year friendship obviously meant nothing to her.

Additionally, I think anyone that harms a child, betraying the childs trust in them, is right up there in the next to murder catagory. Christ himself said of such prople they deserved to die by drowning.

Dante reserved the center of hell for traitors.

The church betrays their members, harms their children and takes every advantage it can of its minions.

My nomination is betrayal. Your thoughts?

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 10:46PM

Sexual sins are next to murder if you are female and/or young. For males in positions of authority, sexual transgressions are badges of success.

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Posted by: GNPE1 ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 10:55PM

Telling others about Mormonism.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 06:45PM

Bingo, GNPE!

A man in our neighborhood ward's stake presidency was tried of murder, but his boss had it reduced to manslaughter, but the guy got off. Still, those several people are dead because of what he did. Using his "priesthood authority," this thug broke into my house and assaulted my sons, a couple of times, and they were too frightened to tell me. The last time, I walked in and witnessed the whole thing! The man would not stop, and I had to yell at him for several minutes, and dial 911 for the police, before he finally stopped and ran out the door. Hey, but this is just how Mormons treat Deacon boys, right?

All the crimes agains women are OK with Mormons, like conning women out of their money, lying and manipulating young inexperienced women into marriage, using women to support them through school. Spousal abuse is swept under the rug. Adultery is no big deal when the man does it; in fact, the woman is always to blame, no matter who cheats.

Rape--Mormons blame the victim. She should not have worn that outfit, should have not gone on that date or to that party, should not have walked to her BYU Cannon Center mailbox at night (where it happened to me.) The victim bears all the shame and consequences. The Mormon perp just lies, and carries on as usual, backed by his priesthood good-old-boys' club, on to his next victim.

Unwanted pregnancy and abortion--it's OK with Mormons. The young fathers are still allowed to go on missions, on schedule.

Molesting my little girl in her sleeping bag during a ward campout--that's OK as long as all the witnesses are threatened and are afraid to tell. The high school senior perp was the bishop's creepy son, and he went on his mission, got married in the temple, became Elder's Quorum President, went to work for his father, and had daughters of his own. Yes, he molested his own daughters, and got divorced, and quickly married someone in the Mormon Single Adult group.

Scamming people out of their money is actually a practice the cult itself depends on, so that's fine.

Outright stealing? My nephew stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from my uncles, my father, and me, but he still struts around like a well-respected Mormon stake leader.

But not one of these horrible slime-bags is an "apostate", so they plan on being in the Mormon CK.

Is there a name or an identified criminal charge for "taking up someone's life, wasting their time, and robbing them of their happiness?"

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 11:06PM

Denying the Holy Ghost.

That's what I was told. Murderers still get some kind of salvation in the end. But people who deny the Holy Ghost go off into outer darkness forever. No salvation.

But how would you know whether you ever denied the Holy Ghost? Nobody has ever seen the Holy Ghost. He's invisible. He never shows a badge or any kind of proper identification. Even Joseph Smith couldn't tell when he was getting revelation from God (through the Holy Ghost), from the Devil or from his own brain farts.

So, it's obviously an ambiguous thing. You may have denied the Holy Ghost without even knowing that you did. You're screwed if that happened. Nothing you do from now on will ever enable you to avoid your inevitable doom.

Remember that time when you were wondering whether the church could possibly be true in spite of all the stuff that seems so wrong, like Joseph Smith sleeping with teen-age girls and green tea being a sinful beverage...and then in your mind you wondered if all those things were just "tests of faith" as some apostle had implied? Remember that? That was the Holy Ghost telling you that it was all true. But look at you now! You rejected and denied that message from the Holy Ghost. You are worse than a murderer! Or not. It's hard to say. Nothing is ever so clear and life enhancing as the teachings of the Gospel.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 02:50PM

I'd be okay w/ outer darkness as long as I had Netflix.

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Posted by: celeste ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 06:11PM

See it’s that one little speck of self doubt that makes me fear going to outer darkness. I’d like to get rid of that speck.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 11:17PM

When you’re 8 and say something along the lines of “holy spirit you’re stupid.” That’s a pretty good indicator. I’m doomed.

But seriously folks, animal abuse and neglect are sins next to murder. I think they are worse than murder.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 27, 2019 04:10PM

When I went to ask for financial help from the church, I was told that abusing God's money was next to murder. My thought was--"I think God would want to help me." I thought it was horrible that they told me that. (From my experience, they like helping those outside the church than members. I did get help meaning I got some of my tithing back.)

As we all know, my "husband" is gay so he and I are going to the same place.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 11:19PM

1)Abortion is pretty bad.
2)And the sin of giving up the natural use of the opposite sex as Paul describes it, seems to have major out in the open consequences.
3)Human sacrifice as the Aztecs practiced.
4)promiscuity (especially with consenting swinging couples)
5)abandoning the elderly as the Indians did,

A civilized society doesn't let it's poor starve in the streets.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 11:23PM

Gandhi slept next to young women to strengthen his self control skills. It’s the same reason I sleep with a bucket of fried chicken.

I would put betrayal up there, but more at a young age. Childhood trauma tends to perpetuate itself as well as cause problems that ripple out in society. The US has more problems with childhood neglect due to both parents working and a lack of adequate parental leave during the most formative months.

Situations like the one you describe wouldn’t faze the more jaded among us. I’ve seen lots worse. Maybe it hits Mormons harder because they’re conditioned to be trusting and innocent. It’s kind of why I was blown away when my shelf collapsed.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 11:42PM

Betrayal hurts, if that is how we measure; but I should think torture, rape and assault to be worse sins than betrayal.

But, come to think of it, those *are* examples of betrayal. So, yes, I agree.

(Yet, there are worse things than death.)

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 11:42PM

I think lying is pretty bad. TSCC teaches members to be honest, but they have been lying from day one. They continue to lie and only admit the truth when it serves them well.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 11:58PM

How about coercing someone who is several months shy of her fifteenth birthday to marry you?

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Posted by: gettinreal ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 09:51AM

1st degree Manslaughter

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Posted by: Elder What's-his-face ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 10:57AM

Actually, the shedding of innocent blood is worse than murder.
Yes they are both murder, but murdering the killer of your family is on a lower scale of evil than the actions of the killer.

In the book Blood of the Prophets, the men who were troubled by their participation in the Mountain Meadows Massacre were assured that they did not shed innocent blood while murdering the men and women of the Fancher party. They also refrained from killing the children under 8 because those had not reached the age of accountability. Had they murdered them, then the sin of shedding innocent blood would be upon them.

After reading that book, it seems clear that here at LDS, Inc. the only sin worse than murder is to disobey the priesthood authorities. And after all is said and done, isn't that the definition of denying the Holy Ghost?

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 11:12AM

Rank-ordering is a tempting idea --
Yet perhaps first we must examine the very concept itself - "sin" - with a critical eye?

What is it?
Says who? Who made it?
Does it have a purpose? What might that purpose be? And then -- what is the REAL purpose?
Why is it that on killing a human being under one circumstance, "they" put you in prison, - but if the killing is under another circumstance, "they" give you a medal?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 11:16AM

Heartless Wrote:
> Your thoughts?

The concept of "sin" is really next to murder. It kills a human being's capability of determining your own morals and ethics without a bunch of really crazy myths and incentives for letting others do this for you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2019 11:16AM by Elder Berry.

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 11:20AM

Elder Berry Wrote:
> The concept of "sin" is really next to murder. It
> kills a human being's capability of determining
> your own morals and ethics . . .

Awesome Award +1

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Posted by: Hedning ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 02:02PM

Then disavowing that they are only used to kill.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 02:56PM

I wear the badge with pride. I didn't betray anyone. I had already been betrayed big time by church leaders and by my "husband." I'm not legally divorced, but in a long-term relationship with another man.

I think child abuse, child sexual abuse, etc., is one of the worst sins.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 03:17PM

Love can move mountains and cross impossible ravines and be what brings understanding to any situation. Yours isn't the most complicated I've heard of. It is a sweet bringing of a balance were religious imbalance was before.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 12:01PM

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 05:09PM

Abuse of those weaker than you, whether it's children, animals, women, the elderly, or engaging in human trafficking.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 06:26PM

It’s weird how things are starting to come out. The Lolita Express is shut down and the pimp for the rich and famous is in jail. Kind of where JS ended up but with enough security to keep a mob out.

Most states now have laws against beastiality because there are people into that. If you consider the kinky stuff that’s out there, the run of the mill Mormon taboos are pretty tame.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 06:51PM

I can't think of anything that is next to murder. You can't replace a life that has been taken from someone.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 01:21PM

pollythinks Wrote:
> You can't replace a life that has been taken from
> someone.

Nope but you can significantly alter that life with religious indoctrinations so much so that a site like RfM exists just to help that life.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 07:30PM

"What sin do you think is really next to murder?"

attempted murder. Just because to don't accomplish your goal doesn't mean it isn't a sin

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Posted by: Oregon ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 07:44PM

Torture is definitely worse than murder. No question.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 08:05PM

Betrayal by someone trusted.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 08:08PM

Killing innocent, achievable dreams, just cuz you can.

Hiding truths from innocents whom it would benefit.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 09:50PM

Attempted murder. Manslaughter. Negligent homicide. Many things are "sins next to murder." But masturbation or sweaty snugglebunnies before marriage, and the like, are definitely things that are FAR FROM being "next to murder in seriousness." It's that attitude that makes Mormons seem even weirder than they are, and leads to their failing success.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 11:47PM

I think that attitude is what makes Mormon murders. They figure out that sex isn’t so bad, so why not take the next step?

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Posted by: wondering ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 10:19PM

Child sexual abuse. It damages the victim for life.

In the 1970s in Arizona there was a 9 or 10 year old girl a victim of incest who became pregnant. The catholic family forced the child to attend school as punishment for getting pregnant. She was forced to have a c sect because her body could not deliver naturally. Abortion was not legal. This is why I oppose making abortion illegal again. Children should not be demonized and damaged by incest of a father!

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 12:06PM

I was even in a carpool with them in high school. I worked with the 2nd daughter in young adult R.S. She said some weird things that I was shocked about and then found out later what was going on. Her husband to be said he was going to move her away from her family--that there were problems about them "being so close."

Years later, the oldest daughter (who was married to a friend's son) came out and told about the sexual abuse in the family. The oldest daughter had had a child in high school and it was put up for adoption. The father went on to sexually abuse his granddaughters, too. One of the daughters told a bishop when she was younger and he said, 'Oh, your dad wouldn't do that. He's a good man."

When the perpetrator was preparing to go on a couples' mission, one of the granddaughters told her bishop and he was convicted and sent to prison for 15 years. He is no longer allowed in my home town. His wife was excommunicated because of whatever participation she had in the situation.

It ruined the family. Ruined all but the marriage of their son. The grandchildren have struggled A LOT. I have been told that the perpetrator's father sexually abused all the kids in his family.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 12:07PM by cl2.

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Posted by: touchstone ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 01:38PM


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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 03:00PM


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Posted by: Testiphony (can’t login) ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 03:37PM


I didn’t scroll through to see if it was mentioned, but I consider the sexualization of infants and toddlers to rival murder. When a person does that, it changes the genetic makeup of that developing child, so that the damages inflicted can actually pass on to the victim’s offspring. When a person does that to an infant, they do it to humanity.

There is not tons of data available on this. I have this suspicion based on what I have seen in my own family of origin. I believe that my TBM parents molested my siblings and I strictly during ages at which memories do not form. I have collected “implicit trauma memories” through therapy and have determined this took place.

I think that repeat episodes of infant abuse slowly morph the shape of the body, like tree rings. I believe my nephew’s cleft lip resulted from the oral and throat abuse inflicted on my sister. (This sister also has chiari syndrome, where the brain herniates down into the brain stem. She has headaches even after surgery).

I also believe my heightened proneness for hernias in the body are traceable to the early abuse, and also resulted in my son born with an improperly formed inguinal area for which he required surgery.

The abuse also has meant a life of intractable body tension and body disassociation, where I have to work really hard just to be aware of my body so that it doesn’t eventually form chronic pain. It has also given me an autoimmune disorder where my immune system attacks my platelets, for which I’ve needed intensive medical intervention. (There is a very strong link between adverse childhood experience and autoimmune illness later in life).

I guess I’m just glad I found out the truth eventually. I feel it’s always better to know.

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Posted by: wowbagger ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 03:50PM

Wearing white after labour day, even in the temple.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 27, 2019 04:49PM

This one brings tears to my eyes and leaves me with a heavy, heavy heart...

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 04:28PM


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Posted by: honklermaga ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 04:46PM

How can bearing false witness not be #2?

It's one thing to have sex with your neighbor's wife. It's another thing to spread a rumor that your neighbor's wife is having an affair with someone.

I get all this is subjective, but this seems pretty cut & dried to me.

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Posted by: vvlooosfkd2d084443 ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 09:09PM

Many things are worse than adultery. Adultery does not necessarily hurt all people the same. Even people who are severely hurt by it might be able to fix things by learning how to forgive. If divorce is necessary, realize that divorce is not the worst thing in the world.

The seriousness of adultery can change based on many factors. It's not a "one size fits all" event. These factors include:

Family history of and attitude towards adultery.

Who the person your wife cheated with was.

The reason why the cheating took place.

Cutting off someone's arm or leg is a much more serious sin. It is difficult or impossible to repair the damage.

Stealing a great deal of money from someone is a more serious sin, if the amount is large enough, and it is hard to get it back.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 09:13PM


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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 09:49PM

I read a story about twin girls born in China, and one had been taken away from the family due to the one child policy:

I thought almost nothing could be worse than stealing someone's child. And for a fleeting moment I thought "at least the Morg doesn't do that..."

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 10:27PM

Raping and/or beating your partner/spouse is right up there.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 11:40PM

I consider fooling someone into throwing their life away on a stupid cult to be a sin next to murder.

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Posted by: Vortigern ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 05:36AM

Manslaughter. Especially voluntary manslaughter.

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Posted by: Aaron...the brother of Moses ( )
Date: August 26, 2019 12:38AM

Drinking a decaf latte.......

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Posted by: Bearded at BYU ( )
Date: August 27, 2019 01:31PM

Drinking anything that ends in -ccino

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Posted by: dot matrix printer ( )
Date: August 27, 2019 01:40PM

Playing I am a child of god on the tuba during sacrament meeting.

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Posted by: nolongerangry ( )
Date: August 27, 2019 04:43PM

About blaming rape victims for getting raped/molested. It happens to men also.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: August 27, 2019 06:57PM

Why would any sin want to stand next to murder?

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Posted by: catholicrebel ( )
Date: September 05, 2019 06:07AM

Rape to me is next to murder. My ex husband did it to me while we were still married but I knew he was high on meth and when I refused him...well. it was one of the most traumatizing experiences of my life, killed parts of my spirit I don’t think I’ll ever get back, and was even more traumatic when people basically said it wasn’t rape because he was my spouse. Well, I was screaming no and he was purposely trying to hurt me so I don’t care what his title was on paper at the time.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: September 05, 2019 09:55AM

I went through that too catholidrebel. It does feel like you lose part of your soul, especially when it’s someone you love and trust and is supposed to do the same.

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Posted by: MarkJ ( )
Date: September 05, 2019 09:07AM

To answer this I would first ask what is your definition of evil? Then you would have a structure for ranking sin.

To me evil is anything that robs a person of his/her individuality or freedom, or weakens individuality or freedom. Murder does that. Slavery does that. Abuse does that. Lying does that (truth is essential to freedom). Theft does that. Sex might do it, but then so could football or Twitter under circumstances that permit exploitation or deception.

Ironically of course, the flip-side of evil (good) comes from voluntarily giving up our freedom and individuality to advance the lives of others. Parenthood. Teaching. Medicine. Service of any kind.

The Ten Commandments have this priority:

1. I am the Lord your God: you shall not have strange gods before me.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.

4. Honor your father and your mother.

5. You shall not kill.

6. You shall not commit adultery.

7. You shall not steal.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

According to the Ten Commandments, God's top concerns are that we are devoted to him. Even if the ranking of sin from there on down is linear, there is a big drop off by the time we get to sins 9 or 10. But then maybe they're all equally important.

My understanding of what was considered adultery at the time the Ten Commandments appeared is that it literally meant to adulterate a family's lineage by mixing in the seed of others, especially men. Survival was tough and nobody wanted to invest resources in raising another person's DNA. If a person is sterile, adultery is impossible (at least by Old Testament standards). Sort of like having to have testes in order to provide legal testimony. No balls, no witness.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: September 05, 2019 09:20AM

Not shopping at city creek.


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Posted by: Cold-Dodger ( )
Date: September 05, 2019 09:39AM

Attempted murder and manslaughter are the sins literally next to murder. Everything else is ridiculous hyperbole.

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