My wife's sister-in-law ran into my sister and brother-in-law. Ironically, I've met people who know my sister and her husband and have told me that she is a saint to have stayed married to him. And by way of explanation my BIL is the guy who fired Charles Larson of Book of Abraham fame.

But I digress. My wife's SIL told her that my sister said that my wife was a saint for staying with me.

Back last Thanksgiving I visited my parents and ran into this sister. She was friendly to me but much more friendly to my wife who she had mostly ignored most of our decades old marriage. I thought it odd but now I understand. I'm some sort of monster.

Facebook was the medium I believe for her to see my monstrosity. I guess. I don't know. My family, of whom I've been estrange for over a decade until recently, knows I've not been going to church and that I don't support Mormonism and that I've cut off contact with a few of them because they refuse to not mention Mormonism to me.

Maybe that is how I'm a monster.

But I'm posting this because it hurt me. I felt like I was 5 again and getting called a little monster by her for not singing "I hope They Call Me on a Mission" up to her standards. She dragged me around to many wards with this little song routine and I've never liked her my whole life. She is the queen of superficiality. She has crafted a life of trying to be someone she isn't. We grew up poor but with an impeccable pedigree. She has spent her life trying to reach the socioeconomic level of our grandmother who was daughter to an apostle.

Anyway, thanks for listening. My wife and I are going to Utah for Christmas and I don't know how I should interact with this sister. Sometimes I just wish I was estranged again. The pros and cons are such a hard thing. They make up so much of the stories of our lives.

To family or not to family. That is the question.

I can relate, to both your pain and the conflict.
One of the worst things I’ve experienced emotionally is finding out family members have a negative view of me, and finding out what they’ve said behind my back too. It just hurts. And it hurts more because it’s not true. And it’s frustrating because there’s no way to win with this, other than, as you say, cut off contact, or reduce it for most of the time. That’s been taken care of for me though as it was me that got shunned.

I have the same dilemma when my brother and sister in law visit, or whenever something weird goes down. I come here every time. In fact, otherwise I wouldn’t be here. It’s hard to know what to do, and if it ends up going well I’m so confused, wonder what’s going on, and if I can trust it (hint: I can’t).

I kind of get why they’re judgmental, fearful, and go hot and cold. I have to remind myself I was once where they are. It doesn’t make it hurt less, but I tell myself it’s not personal, even though in many ways it is.

When I was getting my psychology degree I remember reading this research that showed that people are the most hurt when they are seen as, or treated as, the very opposite to who they feel they are. (Makes sense). People usually have one core belief that describes who they feel they are. Had to think about that, but mine was that I am a good hearted person. So if someone treats me like I am a bad person, this will hurt a lot more, than say, if someone treats me like I am stupid (also hurtful but not so much to me).

Anyway, I’m probably babbling.

Ive recently realised that my mormon relatives actually do pay attention to what I post on Facebook. I’d assumed that was not the case, since a lot of the time I am ignored, and feel I’m insignificant to them. Not so. We are a threat. And we are noticed.
I had some fun with that. As hurt as I still am, I can’t help but make fun of uptight people. They don’t like a certain thing? And they think I’m fundamentally bad anyway?....Well, guess what, I’m gonna do that more. But humour and treating people with it can go a long way to coping, if not putting them in their place as well, without it coming back on you.

Christmas is a bloody awful time. I don’t even want to do it that much. The same boundaries normally in place often get forced to one side. I don’t know what to do about it either. I would just make sure my car doesn’t get blocked in if mormon family are here, and that I either stay under the limit, or get tipsy enough that I won’t care. I probably get judged for that, but I went beyond caring ages ago.

I get that you must have a mormon wife, children and family. But can you get a little bit drunk, or not go? Sometimes you have to think of yourself. We get too used to this treatment and it’s not ok.

Edit: My mother isn’t mormon, but my brother is the saint in our family. On the surface we are treated the same, but the attitude is there. I’m the black sheep. Of course I’m not allowed to say that. People who keep the rules and follow the status quo will always experience the least conflict. I’d rather be myself and face the “consequences”.
I think the lesson might be for us ex mormons, to rise above whatever punishments are dished out. We can’t control it, only how we respond. I’m in therapy over this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2019 12:27PM by LJ12.

"Anyway, I’m probably babbling."

You weren't. Very positive response for me. It is what I was looking for.

"People usually have one core belief that describes who they feel they are. Had to think about that, but mine was that I am a good hearted person. So if someone treats me like I am a bad person, this will hurt a lot more, than say, if someone treats me like I am stupid (also hurtful but not so much to me)."

I think of this as a "self concept." We want to conceptualize our own existence and something that may not be in harmony with our true selves who are more creatures than concepts.

I've been the black sheep all my life. What hurts is how my sister can use my wife against me. It isn't a competition. I think many Mormons don't understand why my wife stays with me.

Yesterday we went shopping and I bought her some clothing. Slowly I'm getting her to the dark side.

But for me what hurts the most is how my family can still affect me as if I were a child. That just pisses me off. I wish I could change the affect they have on me.

" I’d assumed that was not the case, since a lot of the time I am ignored, and feel I’m insignificant to them. Not so. We are a threat."

ME too! I forget how I'm a threat. How could I be? Yep.

" Of course I’m not allowed to say that."

Except behind your back to your spouse's relation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2019 01:59PM by Elder Berry.

Just a thought: maybe SIL secretly follows you on RfM ;-)

LOL! She is more Mormon than Rusty. But she is nice. My wife reminded me this morning that she isn't trustworthy. That is the thing that really gets me. The people who are really really nice to your face but use your experiences with them behind your back.

I'm sure I'm just as guilty as they are. I feel really stupid posting this cause it is true. I'm selective in whom I use and friendly as I can be to most.

That’s the thing: my brother and SIL are really nice too. But no, not trustworthy it feels. But then I’m on here talking about them.

You know, it crossed my mind recently that they might have checked out this page and seen my posts. If they ever do come here they will instantly recognise me. Omg.

What should I do? (sorry to hack your thread)

If I were ever confronted I would own it. I doubt they would. Passive aggressive people find other ways.

LJ12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s the thing: my brother and SIL are really
> nice too. But no, not trustworthy it feels. But
> then I’m on here talking about them.

IT is the Mormon undercurrent that trips us up. We aren't in their club.

We have not many places to complain about their overbearing Mormonism. It bugs them that we aren't members of their club and so we miss a lot of aggressive things that they keep under wraps in their attempting the impossible. Following their leaders and loving/liking us.

No, no, no, Elder Barry, your SIL is NOT nice!

Lj12, your brother and SIL are NOT nice!

I went into therapy because of all this, too, and one important thing I learned is to not buy into my dysfunctional Mormon family members' "nice" act! In order to deal with people like this, you need to see the reality of who they are. You are describing people who are "not trustworthy," who talk behind your back, who make up lies about you, who try to negate your good qualities, who even try to turn your own spouse (and other family members) against you, in some sort of "Us vs Them" battle.

This is not even nice behavior. Not kind. Not polite. Not honest. Their motives are to manipulate, grab more family love for themselves, maybe even grab money. Mormons feel like there's not enough of anything to go around, so they must grab as much as they can off of others. Maybe they're right--there's never much unconditional love in these Mormon families, never enough money for the greedy cult and the too-many children, never enough wives (the men want polygamy in their heaven) never enough praise, because no one ever gives it, never enough achievement, never any appreciation.... Sorry to ramble, but the Mormon emotional deprivation never ends, and the scars run deep.

Even if we reach some level of understanding, there is no reason we must accept this kind of treatment from other. You don't want these idiots to treat your children that way, would you? Actually, it was when this kind of jealousy and nastiness (plus worse physical abuse) spewed out by certain family members began to splash onto my innocent children, I had to terminate a few of the relationships. I told everyone--to their face specifically why--I wanted no contact, too. The facts of what the family abusers did to me and my children upset my parents, who hold the purse strings, so now we get flowery birthday and Christmas cards, dripping with abject requests for "forgiveness." Never, has anyone apologized outright, or even admitted to actually doing anything bad to us.

My therapist had to almost shout at me, over and over, concerning my abusive TBM brother "He doesn't love you! He never did love you!" (My brother could bear a powerful, tearful testimony, though,, and manipulate sympathy from my parents.

Oh, I'm so glad to be out of all those lies, manipulative games, and phony performances!

?--I wonder--why are we so afraid of offending offensive people?

Want2bx wrote: "I was recently asked by a ward member if I could set aside my selfishness and attend church with my TBM husband." In a normal situation, or even a work situation, the response "You are judging me "Selfish", and I am NOT. You don't know anything about my marriage and our private life." What if a child called you selfish? Would you tolerate that? I'm guilty of letting Mormons get away with saying all kinds of mean things, and I come with responses ½ hour after the confrontation is over. Fanatics don't converse; they confront.

?--Why is Lj12 so afraid of someone reading the posts on RFM--those posts are something to be proud of!

--Elder Berry, why are you going to Utah for Christmas? (I hope you plan to enjoy the scenic beauty, and maybe ski or play in the snow.)

I think Summer's advice is a nice general rule-of thumb:

"I would just treat your sister with as much good humor and tolerance as you can muster -- treat her like a child or a misbehaving puppy who doesn't know any better."

This has worked well with my SIL and other RS women gossips. With Mormon male bullies, I have to react more strongly, and treat them as liars and trespassers, or whatever other misdemeanor applies.

As for the few nasty and abusive family members, who actually are trying to do us harm, it's wise to "define what is really going on", like another poster advised, and deal with each individual, accordingly. My wiser, never-brainwashed children have been my reality-checkers. They defined my older brother as an abusive bully, my nephew as a con-man, their father as a cheater, the Mormon church as a fake cult. It was like hearing that the Emperor had no clothes. To hear the realistic definition in plain language, gives you the power to protect yourself.

I hope you resolve this before your Christmas trip to Utah, Elder Berry. Please return and report on that!

Don't sell yourself short. The Mormons want you to feel bad about yourself, you know. (That's why I think of them as a group of enemies). You have many wonderful qualities that we see here on RFM, and that your wife loves about you! Otherwise, she wouldn't be with you. Plus, you buy her new clothes!

I'm sorry. Your sister sounds like a typical Mormon blinded by a temple recommend. If you have one, you can do no wrong. If you don't have one, you can do no right.

I feel fortunate that leaving Mormonism freed me from that type of thinking, but it stings to be on the receiving end of it now.

I was recently asked by a ward member if I could set aside my selfishness and attend church with my TBM husband. This person knows nothing about me. She doesn't know that I've always been the heavy lifter in our marriage. She just sees my husband alone in the pews every week and assumes he's a saint I'm a selfish bitch.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She just sees my husband
> alone in the pews every week and assumes he's a
> saint I'm a selfish bitch.

People see my wife alone every week and I'm even worse. I'm keeping the priesthood from being in our home.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> want2bx Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > She just sees my husband
> > alone in the pews every week and assumes he's a
> > saint I'm a selfish bitch.
>
> People see my wife alone every week and I'm even
> worse. I'm keeping the priesthood from being in
> our home.

EB,

Even if you were that perfect morgbot (assuming that you lied well enough as a ph holder), members would still find other reasons not to like you or your family. That's how rotten it is trying to win approval of other members. It's not worth it.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not worth it.

So true. Mormons are masters at manipulating emotions for themselves. It has been hard to be with them and not one of them.

People are going to have opinions about you, but you can refuse to take them seriously. I would just treat your sister with as much good humor and tolerance as you can muster -- treat her like a child or a misbehaving puppy who doesn't know any better. Everyone has an opinion and an a- -hole, amirite?

yurite.

:)

EB you are an Interesting Sinner :)

And I would bet if she wants something your sinning status will not stop her asking. After decades of no contact and all the crappy things my family has said about me, they sure are not shy when it comes to asking for money. Your wife is a saint but not because she goes to church. It is for putting up with you :P

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is
> for putting up with you :P

I know right? I'm still in shock that she is with me. I've done terrible things and hurt her deeply and she still loves me. I have to often reappraise my relation to her and remind myself of what a wonder and a miracle I have in her. I am a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I'm surprised I haven't lost my Hyde. I'm getting there though. The good doctor is in our house.

:)

She probably thinks your an enigma. She doesn't understand or know you. But it's probably not worth the effort to try to explain it to her since it's very complicated, she likely has a whole set of her own problems and is a conflicted person too.

The trouble you have is similar to mine in that we care too much what other people think. Somehow it's better to get past that.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The trouble you have is similar to mine in that we
> care too much what other people think.

I believe there is something hardwired in us for this. We like to think we can control it but I think it is more intrinsic. We are designed to track and gauge the behaviors of our others in groups.

An "aint" (Saint without the 'S')...the 's' stands for special.

I dropped the 's' when I stopped being "sweet" I think. I'm not special for sure. She is. I just wish she was an S without the Aint.

Wow!!! You are a husband to a saint. That is awesome.

She is hoping she can drag me into her higher kingdom.

“ I know you are, but what am I ?”.
Mm, let’s see, she’s a saint, but you’re not?, there’s no hope for either one of you then, in a higher kingdom ( Just messing with you)
You’re robbing her of the most precious thing to look forward to. Does she know that she’s married to a scumbag?
Speaking of saints, are they even allowed to be married?
I’m just wondering if you’re robbing her also,of being canonized in the far future.
There’s a Walt Disney movie about a New Orleans Saint player who switches bodies with his wife( she’s in his body then, as a “ saint”.
It’s like the “ Freaky Friday” movies

Hockeyrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “ I know you are, but what am I ?”.
> Mm, let’s see, she’s a saint, but you’re
> not?, there’s no hope for either one of you
> then, in a higher kingdom ( Just messing with
> you)

Yep.

> You’re robbing her of the most precious thing
> to look forward to. Does she know that she’s
> married to a scumbag?

Yep.

> Speaking of saints, are they even allowed to be
> married?

Before Mormonism it was frowned upon.

> I’m just wondering if you’re robbing her
> also,of being canonized in the far future.

Yep.

> There’s a Walt Disney movie about a New
> Orleans Saint player who switches bodies with his
> wife( she’s in his body then, as a “ saint”.
>
> It’s like the “ Freaky Friday” movies

Sounds interesting. Worth watching? Turnabout is fair play. But I would be a terrible wife. I wouldn't go to church and I would not be saintly. I would be satanly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Saintly_Switch
When they first switched “ she” with him in her body was talking tough, belching all the time and other bad habits.
“ He” with her in his body was afraid of the ball, crying,getting on the other guys for showing more affection towards each other.
Yes, it’s worth watching, though I haven’t seen it in ages.

I'll check it out.

The husband of a saint?

Well, Mary was canonized. Crap. Now I want to look this up.

You never have been and you never will be a monster.

A believer in Jesus Christ is a saint.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/All-Believers-Are-Saints

Consider, from Romans 1:7, "...to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

A case can be made that since Mormons follow a false Jesus, they are not saints.

I am a very lucky woman whose Most loved Grandfather left Washington with my Gpa and his younger (2 years) 24 year old mother left by train for SLC to have her parents meet their Grandchildren for the first time and she left Goldendale Wa. with a sore throat. When she arrived some days later in 1900 very ill. She was so sick and the 2 year old became sick also. She died a few days later from Strep Throat. Her husband arrived by Telegram to be there when she died. He took the boys Thank God and my G.G. Gma was buried in MT. Olivet Cemetery in downtown SLC. I never knew for sure if they were Mormon or not.My GPA was afraid and made sure my brother and I and mom etc. never knew what it was all about. I love him making sure I never got interested ( too) in mormonism. I have her Wedding dress WAtch,Big China Doll.WEdding things, Baby clothes, her clothes, Death notice letter,Does anyone have anyone have any idea what I should do with these things ,not involvig Mormons? Thank you so much.

a professional football player in New Orleans?

Just a guess. But I bet you like a good gumbo.

EB: Bible (NT) says the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, should I look it up for you?


1st Corinthians 7:14



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2019 03:33AM by GNPE.

1 Corinthians 7:14 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Holy shiz, my children are holy that is unless this was translated incorrectly.

Oh , when the saints go marching in, when the saints go marching in.

pays for his 3 daughters' missions is a SAINT. PERIOD.

Thanks. I was searching facebook over the weekend for things posted about my kids and found that their stake has a fb page? Someone posted about them including their names and photos. I asked my wife if she knew about it and she said she did but hadn't seen is as she doesn't have fb.

I didn't know whether I should be upset or not.

If they were all men maybe it would be even a bigger deal in Mormonlalalaland. But it is funny how random members think it is a big deal. One woman even did a drive by hugging of my wife. She came over on a Sunday afternoon just to give my wife a hug because she had 3 kids on missions and then left.

May I ask, does your wife tell anyone you are paying for their missions? Maybe she shouldn't. They'd start fellowshipping you, if they don't already.

I've had random ladies stop me and hug me from the ward because I'm my daughter's mother--as she is such a wonderful mormon girl. I guess they give me some credit. One used to yell hello _____'s mother every time she saw me. I asked my daughter who it could be (she was in Alaska at the time) and she told me. It stopped soon thereafter.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> May I ask, does your wife tell anyone you are
> paying for their missions?

She doesn't. She doesn't want me fellowshipped. She has been upfront with me about wanting me to go back but understands the depth of my disgust with the church.

and see you was a project. I didn't think of that until after I had said that. Any little thing can get me fellowshipped, so this one would be HUGE!

for your daughters. You are an angel to your daughters.

I believe it makes you a saint consort.

Cool. I think Satan's Cohort is what I'm usually put in.

Saint Consort - Satan's Cohort - what difference could the rearrangement and substitution of a consonant or two possibly make? It's all good.