They have not publicly addressed the allegations of money being used to support a failing church owned insurance company.

The 1rst presidency just stated the IRS complaint is based on a lack of information.

Ervil Lebaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The 1rst presidency just stated the IRS complaint
> is based on a lack of information.

What is the actual factual* basis of Nielsen's charge? What is/was his position with Ensign Advisors? Do we know if he provided hard and authenticated figures?

I'm as shocked as anybody, but we do need to be certain about the data we bandy about.

* "actual factual" -- I know it's redundant, but I couldn't resist.

I have reported you to the Department of Redundancy Department.

+100

Lack of information...

The information the IRS doesn't currently have is exactly how much the mormon hierarchy is willing to donate to the appropriate elected officials to get this investigation quashed.

With ten billion dollars and a ”get-her done” attitude, it should be easy. But there's the risk that another whistleblower could pop up regarding these new payouts!

The hope is that there will be whistleblowers all the down.

Wouldn't it be ever so dreamy to see ghawd 's very own corporate-sole testifying under oath?

"whistleblowers all the down"

An obscure literary reference, or does the dog have fleas?

:)

'Whistleblowers All The Down'

Scholars are in disagreement about whether this complex Renaissance ballad was based on a lost poem of John Donne or drunkenly written by Ian Anderson for the Jethro Tull album 'Songs From the Wood'.

THX.

Sadly, I think the multiple layers of TBM lawyers and accountants are adept at keeping things 'just' this side of legal, so that the obviously unethical billions of a "pauper" church are ultimately only complaints and opinions.

Sadly, mormon, Inc. has more than enough influence in Washington to either make this "go away" or, perhaps more likely, "wither away". I really doubt that they have committed major, actionable infractions - I just don't think they would have been that stupid/arrogant. They may have made questionable (but arguable) interpretations of tax law to their own financial benefit - but I would not expect outrageous and obvious transgressions.

But I will certainly enjoy this as part of a continuing series of public relations blowups that will forever deny LDS Corp the legitimacy it so desperately craves.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2019 11:34AM by 3X.

I know that most of us don’t like Trump, but he may be maverick enough to pursue this. And going after TSCC would rally Evangelicals, Christians of all stripes: Catholics, Protestants, nondenominationals, etc. Churches that aren’t abusing the law and exploiting their members will welcome the scrutiny. And they would love to see the cult fall. And all the people who don’t think churches should have tax-exempt status would like to see a big abusive church take that hit too. Politically it would be a big win for him, garnering more support than it would lose him (from koolaide drinking Mormons).

All that to say, I hope the government pursues this vigorously!

Yes trump could make things uncomfortable for the bretheren. I would like to see Elizabeth Warren go after Kirkon and McKonkie like she did with the Wells Fargo fraudulent accounts fiasco. The Ceo was absolutely unwilling in the trial before the Senate to even comprehend that he did even the slightest wrong doing. It was astounding! I'm sure the mormon accountants and lawyers would act equally astonished if brought to testify.

KPMG was roasted for shredding documents.

Who signs the 990s for TSCC? Let's see...

Ensign Peak Foundation: 2017 Kim R Wilson, Chairman signed and the form was prepared by Squire & Company PC.

Ensign Peak Services: 2018 Diana Hussey, President signed and Armstrong Duke & Associates LLC prepared the form.

ENSIGN PEAK ADVISORS INC: 990 - Not required to file (religious organization)

So, the last one is incorporated. Incorporation is used to limit liability, and it's hard to pierce the corporate veil (sue the people behind the corp). But this is odd.

Is it normal for a church to incorporate?

I'm not going to write all the fallacious figures listed on these 990s, but Diana Hussey and Kim R Wilson might want to lawyer up and ask TSCC to indemnify them.

Armstrong Duke & Associates LLC and Squire & Company PC, I dunno. They might be in for a world of hurt.

Are the 990s appended to the whistleblower complaint? If not, you can see them for free at Guidestar or Charity Navigator.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2019 09:58PM by Beth.

From CNN:

Sam Brunson, a professor of nonprofit tax law at Chicago's Loyola University who is a member of the LDS church, said under Ensign's Articles of Incorporation, "it is both a supporting organization," which means it has to make charitable donations "commensurate in scope" to its funds, and an "integrated auxiliary" which means it might not have to. An integrated auxiliary organization can legally sidestep paying taxes by being a non-profit. "My guess is that the IRS will probably do nothing" and even if it does, "chances are very small we will find out," he said.

On the local news the other night, someone said that TSCC is one of the few organizations/people that has more power than the IRS.

Tempest in a teacup that is already being transformed into the faith promoting control tactic du jour by the church. This will only increase the smug arrogant expressions of Oaks and Bednar as they keep nudging the moving target they have swinging.

This isn't the first rodeo for the Washington Post for this kind of story, which got front page billing in print and online. The article mentioned at least some documentary evidence and the editors likely needed quite a bit to run a big exclusive like this. That doesn't mean it has to be court of law level of proof, but substantial.

The Post is generally pretty kind to LDS, Inc. although this may have lifted the scales from their eyes a bit.

IMO the Post has been blind to LDS, Inc. for many years, to the point where I wondered why the paper felt the need to suck up to the church. But that has obviously shifted of late.

This is the view (distorted, probably, by age, distance and distemper) I have of the situation:

The basic charge is that for quite a number of years, the church has been making investments of various kinds using 'leftover' tithing money. This 'leftover' tithing money has never been taxed. NEVER!

❶ How would you like to use untaxed dollars to dabble in the market? Do you even possess untaxed dollars?  You're allowed to receive around $43,000 or so per year as untaxed gift money, but the giver paid taxes on it, supposedly.

The guys who work at "puts & calls", etc., are risk-takers and they get paid a lot when they guess right. Guess wrong too many times, and they stop giving you money to guess with. So it's logical that if you're good at the game, you are attractive to employers and to keep you under their roof, the employers have to pay you more than you think you could get somewhere else.

❷ The guys (I was going to add "gals", but it's the mormon church!) who are good at this get big year-end bonuses! I'm talking huge! Where do you think that money comes from?

So we must conclude that if they've been working with that extra one billion dollars a year, for 22 or so years, the other 78 billion dollars is comprised of what the above-noted geniuses have earned via their investment strategies. And we can also conclude that the Whistle Blower believes that the church has NOT paid taxes on either the 22 billion in tithing money (which is definitely a defensible legal fiction) or the 78 billion dollars they've earned. That's where the Whistle Blower and his brother are hoping the IRS is going to concentrate their ire.

❸ I don't know what the 'reward' is, but I bet it's a percentage of what the IRS finally decides is owed by the out-of-compliance taxpayer entity. But think of this: Under the new 2018 tax law, even giving the church all the breaks, they owe 5% of their profits in taxes. What's 5% of 78 billion dollars?

The calculator on my phone says it's $3,900,000,000. That's a lot of zeros! How much does the Whistle Blower get? Read this:

"The IRS whistleblower program pays those who expose any form of tax underpayment. In cases that exceed $2 million, the Office pays 15-30% of unpaid taxes, fines, and interest collected."
    https://www.whistleblowersinternational.com/what-is-whistleblowing/rewards/

At the lowest reward rate, 15%, that's (brace yourself) $585,000,000.

Plus the satisfaction of, you know, sticking it to the Holy Hosts of the Church Office Building. The COB, the real Holy of Holies.

I have Absolutely No Idea how 'politicized' the IRS is, but I'm acutely aware of the overbearing influence our current POTUS is and not afraid to cater cow-tow to the religious zealots he is.


a lot of the upper-level policies & procedures, Especially case-to-case applications are ambiguous when it comes to individual matters, politicians are reluctant if not downright afraid to dread into church-state matters, they know which side of their bread is buttered...