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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 11:49AM


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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 12:01PM

Yes, I read that the other day. It was a shock. They said that even younger people, who may have had only mild cases of coronavirus, can be left with up to 30% lung damage. That is scary as hell.

Hope things go better for you. Thanks for the reminder that we seem to be in uncharted territory here.

I think with all the sudden closures and shortages and warnings people are getting the message now.

A very rational friend of mine here in Canada just told me that he's nervous to travel between cities as he has to do today because people are saying that roads may be closed suddenly. He's worried they may not make it back home. I haven't heard of that. Suddenly life is taking a sharp turn that we haven't experienced before, on many fronts.

Take care.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 12:05PM

I think this is going to be much more tricky than anything we've dealt with before and since things are now escalating quickly to try to deal with the unique nature of this virus (long incubation period and serious breathing problems), it's hard to predict what restrictions are going to be required to fight this from spreading and taking out a lot of people.

I was in excellent physical health and am not elderly, so this can strike a lot of people, not just the elderly and infirm.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 12:38PM

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was in excellent physical health and am not
> elderly, so this can strike a lot of people, not
> just the elderly and infirm.

Oh yes. Very important point. No room for complacency. Just because they're saying that younger people, especially children, usually get a mild case doesn't mean there aren't still major concerns. As my friend said, the kids get it and recover well but meanwhile they pass it on to their grandparents who may not fare so well.

Many issues arise. We don't even know all of them yet. It's one of those things where you learn after the fact. Looking back, we'll understand it better, the experts say. Great. But for those struck down by it now, it's not much comfort.

We're not totally helpless. We know the one main thing we can do to protect ourselves is wash wash wash those hands of ours as well as try to stay away from anybody with respiratory symptoms. Hopefully, we can maintain a sense of community out there and help each other, if only by doing our own small part to squelch this thing.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 01:06PM

I've had two doctor appointments in the last 5 days that were cancelled by the doctors. They certainly are taking this seriously. One doctor did a phone call appointment with me that was very frank and forthright. The other appointment was rescheduled out to May.

This is so different from anything I have experienced in my 70 years. My hands are chapped from washing them so much I'm putting on lotion a lot. I'm ordering some things online that I normally just drive to the store to get. I'm going to figure out how to skype.

Lingering lung issues is scary!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 01:35PM

I called my ophthalmologist today to try to reschedule an appointment. Her office is closed for the next two weeks, and eye emergencies are being directed to the ophthalmologist on call at the hospital ER. She has a surgical suite on the hospital campus. I think this is a part of not only cancelling elective surgeries, but also possibly opening up new hospital beds if needed.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 01:38PM

I think this is prudent. I shudder to think of running out of beds.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 01:39PM

It's really outside most people's experience, at this point, I think.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 06:08PM

fyi: my oncologist recommended Uddery Smooth (the one that says UREA in the ingredients) and the O'keefe's Workman's Hands in the round tin. Both have Urea in them, and this is supposed to be good for chapped hands. It certainly has made my chemo-induced cracks in my hands heal. I would recommend it.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 01:47PM

Sometimes I think the so called experts are living in a dream world. This morning on TV a surgeon general (don't know if he is The SG or if that is a state title) was suggesting that if we have questions to talk to our doctor as if we can just call him on the phone and ask our questions. I'd like to ask him if I should switch my blood pressured medication as a I read that some types give the virus something it can latch onto more strongly. I wonder how that would work.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 01:50PM

I'm sure the doctors are patiently waiting by the phones for our calls, as we speak. Operators are standing by. LOL

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 02:29PM

The lungs are different than other organs such as the liver. Whereas the liver contains regenerative properties, the lungs not so much. Once damaged, tend to stay that way. Thanks for the insight OP.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 02:38PM

Not my intent to make this political but Joe Biden was on the money in the "debate" Sunday night when he suggested the military should be called in to set up hospitals and isolation centers. I heard a statistic that there are 30 hospital beds in the US for every 10,000 people. Hardly enough if the anticipated number of infected people comes about. The UK government has already asked some car manufacturers there to switch to the production of ventilators, something in shorts supply here, too.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 02:55PM

Agreed. The lack of hospital beds is perhaps worse than the disease, for once the beds are filled the medical personnel will have to decide who gets treatment and who does not. That will kill a lot of elderly people.

Let's hope countries can contain the surge in cases while also increasing the supply of hospitals and beds.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:02PM

It's not just beds and space, as you know and we've mentioned before. It's medical equipment. Like ventilators. If a person has pneumonia, a potential consequence of COVID-19, they may need to be placed on a ventilator. If there are not enough machines, medical staff will have to make the excruciating choice about which patient to treat and which cannot receive that particular supportive measure. They have already faced that consequence in Italy, I've read. They've said they would, of course, choose to help younger patients. Younger as in, if you're 70 (which seems young to folks who are getting up there or past that and still vital and active) you may not be selected as a person who can receive the breathing assistance when machines are being rationed.

This might be the biggest wake-up call ever.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:03PM

Agree on all points.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:22PM

And just now, Trump told the state governors that they're on their own for medical equipment such as ventilators. The federal government will not be providing them.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:35PM

He also said that the US government is "ahead of the curve" with regard to the virus.

"Ahead of the curve. . ."

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:37PM

And yes, right now he is reiterating the need for hospitals to fend for themselves.

He said he has given the hospitals full authority to buy things from their private suppliers. I'm glad they are happy to get the authority to do what they have been doing for decades. Trump is concerned that the government may be "slow."

You can't make this stuff up.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 04:21PM

He just said that he would rate his response to coronavirus as a 10.

Is that on a scale of 1-100 or 1-1000?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 06:19PM

The cardinal numbers have depreciated dramatically in recent years.

10 just isn't what it used to be.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 04:11AM

I just know he’s going to get re-elected.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 07:20AM

Closing the borders early and under criticism put the US ahead of the curve. People can say in retrospect something like 'oh yeah, I guess the President did one good thing there' and quickly dismiss what he did. But while the pandemic was not even recognized as significant yet and while the President was under impeachment proceedings and recovering from impeachment fallout, he took yet another controversial step that he knew would open himself to yet more attack with little evidence at the time to support his controversial decision. He did the right thing early-on and should get due credit for that good (and in retrospect correct) action.
-----
https://gazette.com/opinion/editorial-travel-bans-are-not-racist-xenophobia/article_7f095c6a-5cfe-11ea-958e-f3bf8a2256bf.html

Former Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden blasted Trump for the travel ban one day after he ordered it.

“This is not time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia and fearmongering,” Biden said.
-----
Some people actually called this the 'Trump virus' at one point. If Obama had thought to close the borders early and save more lives instead of waiting six months as he did with H1N1, I would have credited Obama's decision as a good thing too. The virus isn't political. We should give credit where it is due, regardless of our political affiliation.

In one post, Lot's Wife posted a link to an excellent video that explains exponential disease growth. The reason that the US is not in the same position as is Italy is for primarily one reason, the US stopped the contegeon from widespread coming in to the US very early. Who made that happen?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2020 07:51AM by azsteve.

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Posted by: jc ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 09:46AM

Well said. Thanks.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 11:20AM

"Closing the borders early. . ."

What on earth are you talking about? We learned of the crisis two months ago. On February 25th Trump said "“We’re really down to probably 10 [cases], most of the people are outside of danger right now.” On February 28 he called it the Democrats' "new hoax." He got religion about COVID-19 less than a week ago. He "closed the borders" just a few days ago--and then the inbound fliers were forced to stand for hours, shoulder to shoulder, in massive lines at the airports. He "closed the borders" AFTER the disease was already entrenched in the United States.

Credit where credit is due. Trump is the man who in January 2018 closed down the infectious diseases unit in the White House and who cut the CDC's funding for infectious diseases by 80%. He's likewise the man who rejected an offer from the WHO offering testing supplies. Over the last 2.2 years he disarmed the United States in the war against this sort of pandemic.

My heavens, azsteve, toilet paper is in short supply but no one can match your stockpile of Kool-Aid.




ETA: Kaiser Health News, today:

"And then, in 2018, the White House closed the Global Health Security office in the National Security Council, which was the center for ensuring that the United States government had a forward-leaning capability to monitor what was happening around the world and to inform and guide all agencies in the United States about what needs to be done yesterday, not tomorrow. That agency was shut down, and there is an enormous vacuum. That left a vacuum that is clearly playing itself out in terms of leadership, global responsibility now."

Credit where credit's due, surely, and blame where it lies as well.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2020 02:59PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 12:51PM

This is truly bizarre.


-----------
> Closing the borders early and under criticism put
> the US ahead of the curve.

In late January Trump "closed the borders" to Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen but continued to allow unrestricted travel to and from China, South Korea, Italy, and other hot spots. And you seriously claim that the closure was related to COVID-19?


------------
> People can say in
> retrospect something like 'oh yeah, I guess the
> President did one good thing there' and quickly
> dismiss what he did. But while the pandemic was
> not even recognized as significant yet and while
> the President was under impeachment proceedings
> and recovering from impeachment fallout, he took
> yet another controversial step that he knew would
> open himself to yet more attack with little
> evidence at the time to support his controversial
> decision.

What are you talking about? Trump was dismissing the coronavirus last week, a full two months after the rest of the world knew how serious the crisis was. Closing the border to Muslim countries in January was basically irrelevant. The only closure that truly matters with regard to COVID was the one that occurred five days ago, over two months after the crisis had emerged and a full one month after the media and public health officials were trumpeting the problem.

As for the the impeachment trial, the senate acquitted Trump at the beginning of February. Impeachment didn't get in the way of Trump's actions: his refusal to recognize reality did. He was like Joseph Stalin after the German invasion of the Soviet Union: hiding in a corner for two weeks, panicked and unsure what to do. The difference is that after a fortnight Stalin engaged whereas it took Trump six weeks to do so.


---------------
> He did the right thing early-on and
> should get due credit for that good (and in
> retrospect correct) action.

Right. Because Yemen was a hotbed of coronavirus.


--------------------
> Former Vice President and Democratic presidential
> candidate Joe Biden blasted Trump for the travel
> ban one day after he ordered it.
>
> “This is not time for Donald Trump’s record of
> hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia
> and fearmongering,” Biden said.

Biden was right. With the exception of Iran, the late January ban against Islamic countries did nothing to protect the United States. He left the door to China, South Korea, Italy, and other countries wide open until just a few days ago.


-------------------
> Some people actually called this the 'Trump virus'
> at one point.

Give us three examples of anyone actually saying that. Because otherwise, it's just more Kool-Aid.


--------------------
> The virus isn't political. We should give
> credit where it is due, regardless of our
> political affiliation.

Would that your irony were intentional


------------------
> In one post, Lot's Wife posted a link to an
> excellent video that explains exponential disease
> growth. The reason that the US is not in the same
> position as is Italy is for primarily one reason,
> the US stopped the contegeon from widespread
> coming in to the US very early.

He shut the door to the wrong people. It's unfortunate that you are unwilling to see that.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 06:23PM

What?

I thought they had promised all assistance?

Maybe each state will go out on its own, doing its own thing, to cope themselves. Maybe that's what they've been doing. Or always have done?

I see the glimmerings of it here in B.C. where the federal govt just shut down inbound travel for non-Canadians from all destinations, excepting the USA (I assume American citizens, not non-Americans passing through). My province, B.C., just asked Americans also to not cross the border right now. All the deaths in Canada to date (5) have been in B.C. It's not that usual for a province to go out on its own, above and beyond a decision from on high (feds back east).

I favour the most caution possible. I would hope that nobody gets insulted about countries putting themselves and their citizens first. It's that first-responder principle: Keep yourself safe so you can help others. (Of course, many brave first-responders leap into the fray to save strangers, as we know from sad experience. Still, it's a sound principle in general, such as pausing first to don protective gear before wading into a crisis situation).

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:00PM

I am so sorry, Devoted Exmo.

:(

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:40PM

Thank you so much, Tevai.

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Posted by: Warrior71783 ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:29PM

I wonder if i got the virus. I'm definitely breathing slower than normal but i do have sleep apnea that has gone untreated since i broke my sleeping device. Hard to know if i actually have the virus or not.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:35PM

Warrior71783 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if i got the virus. I'm definitely
> breathing slower than normal but i do have sleep
> apnea that has gone untreated since i broke my
> sleeping device. Hard to know if i actually have
> the virus or not.

From what I [a coronavirus-ignorant layperson] know, coronavirus is accompanied by a high body temperature.

If your temperature isn't outside the "normal" parameters, you probably don't have the virus--though you may be "carrying" it around on your body or your clothes, and this can definitely be hazardous to others.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:40PM

You can easily google the symptoms of this virus. And people are getting a varying degrees of symptoms, but most people start out with a dry cough.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:44PM

If you are willing to share...

Were you tested and if so, how hard was it to get the test and results timely? Also, was it through a personal physician or drive through or what?

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 03:55PM

No, I believe I got it in the second week of February and there were no tests for it. I was initially diagnosed with Influenza B, but not tested for it. That was on my first trip to the hospital, then on the second trip, after not being able to eat, drink, breathe and being in terrible shape, I went back to the hospital and was diagnosed with pneumonia. The did not test me on the second trip either as there were still no tests.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 06:20PM

It will be interesting to see what happens when you eventually get tested--to see, in short, if you have the antibodies.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 09:02PM

My doctor is trying to get me into the coronavirus system. I'll call tomorrow and see if they'll get me in or not. She says this is the best way to deal with the lingering issues.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 12:21AM

Best of luck, DevEx.

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 06:26PM

Very sorry, Devoted Exmo. Thanks for being willing to share your story and the information about the virus. I'm sure it was not easy.

Take care and wishing you the best.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 09:01PM

Thank you. I got a call from my doctor today and she's trying to get me some pulmonary assistance. I'm so grateful.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 09:37PM

this is getting me scared, I deal with asthma, and 30% reduction in breathing has been something I've dealt with in the past. I'm sure I'd be a lot worse if I get this virus though. The market is looking really bad too.

Another worry is our grocery stores, what if the order fillers start getting sick, there's going to literally be no food to buy.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: March 16, 2020 09:42PM

Yep.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 12:49AM

I'm sorry that this has happened to you, Devoted Exmo. Your original post made many of us to (me, anyway) pay attention to what is going on. So very, very glad you made it through that.

A QUESTION: what could you family have done for you other or in addition to what they did? DH and I were just discussing what we would do if one of our children were to become so ill. My question for DH was, "How could we not run to them? What would we do?"

Please take care.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 01:47AM

Please keep us posted Devoted Exmo. And know you have a lot of us in your corner!

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 05:44AM

I haven't been around in awhile, and just catching up on what you have been thru, Devoted Exmo.

We need to hear more about the experiences like yours to wake people up.

Take care of yourself, D-Exmo.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: March 17, 2020 10:01AM

I'm so sorry D-Exmo. This must be a hard thing to go through. Good thoughts coming your way.

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