I am married to an atheist Jew, who has never celebrated Christmas at home before, since she's always traveled South for the winter to be with her family out of state. But this year we're not travelling due to pandemic concerns.
Like I told her, "I'm not Christian and neither are you. I'm more Buddhist than anything. I have no need for a Christmas tree, which seems, to me, like a waste of a perfectly good tree."
She broke down in tears and said she wants to have some kind of a holiday tradition in our family.
I said, "Man I hate being the Bah Humbug guy! I love this time of year. I love the lights, the colors, the holly and mistletoe, the smell of trees inside. I love the food, the gatherings, the music, the celebration of it all. I just feel like it's wasteful to kill a tree to celebrate the Winter solstice, which is, after all, what this time of year is all about, going way back to the Egyptians. So how about we get a living tree and decorate it and plant it afterwards in our yard? And we'll get a menorah to put in the window."
She liked that idea and I managed to talk her out of killing a tree for 6 pound 7 ounce Baby Jesus.
What is it with Atheists wanting to celebrate Christmas when they don't believe in Christ?

May not have anything to do with Christmas. I know its called a Christmas tree, but maybe its all the things you like about this time of year and she just wanted a bit of the color and lights inside her home. I love my tree. Has ornaments on it that were my parents. I often refer to it as my storytelling tree because every ornament tells a story - what trip we were on when we bought the ornament, what friend gave us an ornament, the ornaments from my parents first tree, lots of snowmen because I like snowmen, mermaid ornaments because my husband collects mermaids. Make it your storytelling tree.

Christmas is one of the happiest times of year. For most of us, Christmas brings back memories of Christmases past, the Christmases of our childhood, when joy reigned and wishes came true. The fragrance of fresh fir, the glow of candles, the tinkle of little Christmas bells, the glitter and glisten of decorations which brighten everything at this time of year, the very colors of green and red and snowy white - how can the heart not smile with joy? And the songs! Yes, they can get tiresome, but I can turn the radio off. It's Christmas, after all! A special time. A happy time.

I am not a Christian, but I enjoy Christmas. I love to do all the things one traditionally does at Christmas: I write to old friends, bake cookies, wander the malls where people are shopping, buy gifts for those I love. I love to sing the old carols. I get out the story "A Bavarian Christmas" and reread it, because the Bavarians (among whom I spent one of my most wonderful Christmases) make such a big production of Christmas. And the story of the inn with no room, the Magi, the shepherds, the angels singing about the baby king - what a beautiful tale! We (my atheist family and I) put up a tree, set up the nativity scene with the baby Jesus, put the three Magi statues on the mantlepiece (a gift from Jewish friends), put the angel on top of the tree, and Santa and the elves all around, and create the magic of Christmas. It is a wonderful tradition, a beautiful custom.

Although I have a particularly fraught history of Christmases past (from my personal perspective: one of the truly GREAT things about me formally becoming a Jew was that I got to "officially" drop Christmas out of my personal holidays list), I do deeply understand (from the family I grew up in) how much Christmas can mean to Americans and within American culture.

For those who were raised in the American Christmas way (Santa Claus, Rudolph, Christmas trees, special Christmas foods or Christmas drinks, the manger presentations, "Jingle Bells," Bing Crosby, etc.), Christmas can be THE most important holiday in any given year.

In my conversion to Judaism class, many of my classmates who had had positive Christmas histories in their lives worried quite a lot about how their personal lives would be affected without personal Christmas observances (Christmas dinner, wrapping and opening Christmas gifts, etc.)--it was a BIG deal for a number of people who were diligently seeking to become Jews.

The lack of American Christmas may be felt as a real personal loss (akin to someone close to you dying).

I understand.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2020 03:40PM by Tevai.

When I am driving, the radio is nearly always on K-LVE (one of our several local, Spanish-language, stations--107.5), and a couple of weeks ago, on K-LVE, I heard a Christmas song I had never heard before: "Ven a Mi Casa Esta Navidad," by Argentine singer/composer Luis Aguile (1936-2009).

Almost instantly, this became my favorite Christmas song of all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTdzjSPZv8g

Aguile is best known as the composer/singer of the gigantic worldwide hit "Cuando Sali De Cuba" (1967), which--because of Miss Medina, my high school Spanish teacher who immigrated to the U.S. from Cuba--became an instant favorite of mine too. If Miss Medina was still alive, she would be singing this song to every one of her Spanish classes as an expression of her deep love for the land of her birth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M_b64sAMgM&list=RD8M_b64sAMgM&start_radio=1



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2020 03:14AM by Tevai.

Haven't we seen that man in a grass skirt somewhere?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haven't we seen that man in a grass skirt
> somewhere?

I dinna think so.

:D

All who enjoy celebrating need to have a tree, sing carols, exchange gifts, enjoy special food and drink. Life is too short to be cranky over who wants to celebrate holidays and why.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2020 06:38PM by Cheryl.

Is that in the Tao?

Just as the Christians co-opted it from the Pagans before, us Secularists have now co-opted it for ourselves. Of course, that in no way implies that Christians and Pagans aren't free to celebrate it any way they choose.

Besides, for health reasons I'm on a rather limited diet. It's my one time a year to eat Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding.

I agree, it's now just as much a secular holiday as a religious one. Google "Christmas (and) Japan" to see some examples.

There are ways around cutting down a tree if that bothers you. You can get a live tree and plant it later (my family did that for several years.) Or you can have an artificial tree. Many live Christmas trees are specifically grown on tree farms like any other crop. It's not like you are robbing the forest of a tree.

I gave up having a "live" c.t. long ago, and now settle for a nativity scene that sits on top of my piano. I also hang a Merry Christmas message across the top of a large mirror over my couch.

But, best of all, I hang a hand-made--by my husband--a NOEL message, in big letters backed by wood, on my covered porch.

By the way--I think Santa Clause was, in the way back beginning in Europe (England? Germany?) a Christian Saint who enjoyed giving children a present, who otherwise wouldn't get anything.

For me...and most kids if they're honest about it...Christmas was never about Jesus. Christmas was about Santa Claus. And Santa always came through for me. Jesus never did.

We have a small artificial tree as well as a mantletop one. We also hang an Advent calendar from his childhood, and I have to guess what's behind the door each day. It's fun for both of us.

Neither of us does anything elaborate otherwise. We do visit family who themselves are a mix of believers and non-believers, and we partake in their celebrations, but only in eating meals and sharing time with them. We don't go to churches; we don't watch special firesides or mass or anything like that,


Holiday traditions allow people to share some common points in their lives, in which they have specific roles to play that recur year after year. This gives a sense of common meaning and purpose, as well as the comfort of the known.

Of course, people have the option of changing these roles over time - both which roles they play and what those roles do - but the overall structure stays enough the same.

When one marries, spouses often blend the traditions they came from - for instance, you might eat special foods from each other's family - and that includes dropping traditions that are inconvenient or less meaningful and creating new ones special to them.


In your case, schrodingerscat, I think you have already reached a compromise, but it seems to me that you should explore what it is that your spouse is looking for. To me, it sounds like your spouse is feeling left out from the rhythm of the years this year - an attempt to achieve normalcy in this rather unstable and fear-inducing year.

Tyson

(PS Yes, I'm back for now. Sometimes I need somewhere to vent.)

The only thing Christian about Christmas trees is the name. All the rest - the evergreen tree, the lights, the ornaments, the time of year, are pagan traditions.

In North Dakota, Good Friday is a state holiday. If somebody wanted to challenge this in court, I think it is quite likely to be unconstitutional as an obviously religious holiday. You can argue Christmas is largely secular now. Good Friday, not so much.

The catch is, nobody is going to go to court to get rid of a holiday. It would make very few people even minimally happy, and would annoy a great many people. ND church-state activists pick their battles, and the Good Friday holiday doesn't even come close to making the cut.

I'd suggest the same about Christmas trees. That is not a hill worth dying on.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only thing Christian about Christmas trees is
> the name. All the rest - the evergreen tree, the
> lights, the ornaments, the time of year, are pagan
> traditions.
>
> In North Dakota, Good Friday is a state holiday.
> If somebody wanted to challenge this in court, I
> think it is quite likely to be unconstitutional as
> an obviously religious holiday. You can argue
> Christmas is largely secular now. Good Friday, not
> so much.
>
> The catch is, nobody is going to go to court to
> get rid of a holiday. It would make very few
> people even minimally happy, and would annoy a
> great many people. ND church-state activists pick
> their battles, and the Good Friday holiday doesn't
> even come close to making the cut.
>
> I'd suggest the same about Christmas trees. That
> is not a hill worth dying on.

I see Christmas trees as symbols projected on the walls of Plato's Cave.
We just go along with it because we have nothing better to offer.
In 4,000 years we've come up with nothing better than Christmas. The Jews have hanukkah, but it's a minor holiday, and let's face it, not near as good of food as a good old fashioned Christmas cooked by Grandma, the kids, Dad, Mom, all the sibs.
Fires,
smoking drinking and
living as if this might be our last Christmas.
Or the first of many more.
Christmas is about love and where there is love there is family.
And we are all alike in that regard
No Christians or Jews or Buddhists,
just loved ones
who don't have to imagine being one
because we are
one
and nothing
all at once
Singular

I put up my tree last weekend and did some more decorating. It made me feel good to do it. I didn't last year and barely the Christmas before..just to raw after my wife died in 2017. But I'm glad I did.

It's a pagan solstice conifer. It will go well with your pagan yule log.

We have never killed a tree for Christmas. We have two fake trees.