There are a couple of 19th Century former-Mormon thought leaders, such as Frank Cannon, a Utah Repub senator and son of Mormon Apostle, George Q. Cannon, as well as William Godbe who openly broke with Brigham Young. I admire both of these individuals, as they had the guts to tell BY - to his face - that Mormonism was a fraud. They had guts!

The 20th century had several former-Mormons that I admire as well, Fawn Brody is at the top of my list. Former Mormonsim continues into the 21st century, and I admire Scott Kenney, the founder of Sunstone - the editors of Dialog, as well as John Dehlin, Jeremy Rennells, and Grant Palmer, to name just a few.

Do you have a former-Mormon that you admire?

Sarah Pratt, William Law. . .

I'm tempted to say Thomas Marsh since he rebelled over JS crimes but I don't know much about his character other than that.

Sarah Pratt would be a great moniker for RfM, by the way.

I admire me. Every time I look in a mirror, I fall in love all over again.

What? You wanted me to lie?

Yes. I was thinking you could star in a remake of Gilligan's Island!

I think anyone who manages to leave should be proud of themself!

Agreed. It is a courageous thing.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I admire me. Every time I look in a mirror, I
> fall in love all over again.>
> What? You wanted me to lie?

I love myself
I love myself so
I took myself to a pictures show
I put my arm around my waist
I got so fresh
I slapped my face.

There are so many, but for me, and my journey...

When I tried to figure out this group that my brother married into many years ago, UTLM was about the only resource I could find. So I'll nominate Jerald and Sandra Tanner.


On a hopeful note, I'm hoping one day to nominate that brother--if he would leave, then I think a bunch would follow him out--but I'm not holding my breath. Sigh. :(

I say Richard Packham

Richard for sure. Also Eric K. who had the courage to start this website all those years ago when I was just starting my journey out of TSCC. What a relief it was to find a group of like minded folks!

2 more excellent choices!

I think Shawn McCraney is interesting as an exmo, I listened to him while I was leaving the LDS church and then I listened to him after I left Bible Fundamentalism. Shawn went from Evangelical Fundamentalist against Mormonism to Heterodox Christian against Fundamentalists in Utah. The guy was willing to question his Mormonism and then after years devoted to defending Orthodox Traditional Protestantism or Evangelical Fundamentalism, he then rejected all of that after doing his own historical research and took on all the Fundamentalists in his area and got kicked off his TV show. I am a Huxley Agnostic and don't embrace or endorse all that McCraney says, but if I were to entertain the Bible again, it would be something close to what McCraney now preaches at Heart of the Matter 3.0. No this is not a commercial for McCraney, I just like dudes who go there own way with courage, whether that is atheism or deism, or deciding for yourself how to be Christian.

I watched and enjoyed quite a few of his YouTube videos back when things were at their worst with my TBM brother and his wife. They were interesting in terms of explaining wacky stuff, and also helpful in how to handle TBMs too.

Da Boner. To know him is to love and respect him!

Mitt Romney's dad, Wilcken. Wait wait wait, I can explain..

The guy had a quest, a failed quest to become president of the United States. But Y'see, born into a polygamist camp in Mexico can throw a real damper on those White Horse ambitions.

So with perfectly arranged timing his son Romney made the same attempt, thrice!

And each time (one official try) on each of the three runs Google and the MainStream media was working out the kinks of killing his chances. Mainly it was stunning articles after articles one day talked up around Mormon (ex-mormon) recovery forums. And the very next day the WSJ and NYT was printing the outrageous same stuff.

The Google searchs stayed near to the front (top) page during 2007 and again in 2011 with all of the very best juicy information. Anybody noticing didn't even know what we're maybe finding out about manipulating interests, today. We all were super duper stupid-green tomatoes back then.

Heh, Romney believed his underwear shielded his ass from such things. Okay, now it's his soiled patriarch undies we owe everything to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2020 11:45PM by josephssmmyth.

Blue Cheese?

Does anyone really eat Blue Cheese anymore?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blue Cheese?
>
> Does anyone really eat Blue Cheese anymore?

Manipulating MSM interests threw ya off, didn't it?

But you love fiction, it's a hallmark of yours..

You realize you are perceived here as a joke, don't you?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You realize you are perceived here as a joke,
> don't you?

Trump followers are all a big Yuge joke..
Right?

josephssmmyth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lot's Wife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You realize you are perceived here as a joke,
> > don't you?
>
> Trump followers are all a big Yuge joke..
> Right?

Nevermind Jesus, Bible, Atheist faith comfort club cards ha ha..

Yawn.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yawn.
You mispelled, move a pawn.

Different perspectives keep the board interesting. I can’t wait for his “told ya so” when Trump wins the election.

You are smarter than that.

But not as smart as Trump. He’s a genius, he said so himself. Kind of the same way Joseph Smith was a prophet. Would a prophet lie about being a prophet?

Bradley, he lost the popular vote and the electoral college.

Me waking up with a seabag full of unmarked bills, hearing Rusty announce Mormonism is a fraud (made it on topic; you're welcome, admin), and finding a jet-black dragon sitting in the parking lot with a tag saying "for ookami" around its neck is more likely than Trump remaining president.

Yeah I eat me some Bleu Cheese on occasion. It's a guilty pleasure

I took an American history extension class in 1963 when I returned from my mission. It was taught by high school teacher in our area who was working on his masters and had just published a Biography of B.H. Roberts. I learned a lot about Roberts in after class discussions. The trouble was it was all "faithful" information. Roberts was one of my heroes until his papers were published and I saw the other side of the man. I still am impressed by his intellectual honesty, his research, and willingness to bring up Book of Mormon Issues back in the 1920s. I wish he would have been willing to go public, but the brethren shut him down. That would have taken a lot of courage. I don't think I could have done it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2020 11:53PM by hgc.

I considered listing him as well. Roberts clearly had the courage and honesty to pursue questions to their logical conclusions, and he did distance himself from the BoM. But he lacked the courage to leave the church and he was a pretty nasty husband and human in general. So I decided not to propose him for this honor.

If we agree on Roberts as an interesting case, though, how about Sterling McMurrin? He was a remarkable intellect, wrote a ton of fascinating things about Mormonism, and pushed to have Robert's Magnum Opus published. Or Thomas Ferguson?

Seriously, these people are also-rans. But they deserve to be in the discussion.

How about Simon Southerton and his work on DNA?

Ericksen - yes! Ericksen is Scott Kenney's grandfather, and Scott Kenny founded Sunstone. Scott wrote a biography of Ericksen, wherein he addressed how Ericksen was kicked off the Young Men's general board. Ericksen later was "inquisitioned" by his Bishop about his unbelief in Smith - as a prophet.

On reviewing the Ericksen bio, I see he was a faithful but unorthodox Mormon. Maybe we can consider him a proto-exMo.

E. E. Erickson, a late 19th century Mormon who went east and earned a PhD and founded the Philosophy Department at the UodU. Sterling McMurrin held the E E Ericksen Chair in philosophy at the U of U.

You think it's tough being an intellectual in Mormonism now, imagine what it must have been like around 1900.

[edit to add] https://sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/011-16-27.pdf short bio of Ericksen by his grandson, Scott Kenney, who I believe cofounded Sunstone and Dialogue Magazine.

Here's a book length autobiography of Ericksen. Links on the left are to a pdf version.
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/memories-and-reflections/


Admired in a different way, for the absolute audaciousness of her life - Natacha Rambova. Her life before age 20 is pretty jaw-dropping, and it doesn't let up in later years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natacha_Rambova



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2020 03:53AM by Brother Of Jerry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Chamberlin_ (philosopher)

Philosophy and Mormonism, wow! Talk about missing the forest of trees?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2020 06:59AM by josephssmmyth.

I wasn't familiar with Chamberlin, and it says Ericksen was one of his students. Apparently he was pro-evolution at BYU back around 1900, popular with students, but the Brethren were not approving.

Some things never change.

Something is wrong with the link or my browser. The Chamberlin article does exist, but I had to search wikipedia for it.

behindcurtain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sandra Tanner is one.

Wow, we're all forever grateful for her and Jerald.

I have one of their first assembled large loose-leaf paperback editions in lime green and cherish the almost homemade thing. Given to me by one of Mitt Romney's highschool classmates.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism:_Shadow_or_Reality%3F

Utah Lighthouse Ministry is maybe still probably very active.

http://utlm.org/

My husband. But that's just because I think he's the best, and he happens to be an exmo. ;)

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My husband. But that's just because I think he's
> the best, and he happens to be an exmo. ;)


Sweet!

While I have a lot of respect for most of the names already mentioned (some I've never heard of before), I think I would choose three not-yet named ex-Mormons for my most-admired list:

1) Bob McCue. While he hasn't been around here in a while, former Mormon bishop Bob McCue's essays on Mormon marriage really helped me to see why I shouldn't attempt to date a devout Mormon single female (she was a co-worker).

2) Steve Benson. His essays on Mormon history, especially those concerning his grandfather, former Mormon prophet Ezra Taft Benson, were an eye-opener for me as to how the LDS church really works (or not).

3) SusieQ#1. She's passed on now and I never knew her real name, but SusieQ#1's posts here and elsewhere about living inside Mormonism as a convert were often full of revelations to me as how the church often viewed its converts.

While all three of these people haven't posted here in many years (as noted, the third one has already passed), you can find examples of their work on this very site.

I'll add my therapist, Dave Christian, at mydocdave.com One of the most intelligent individuals I've ever known.

Yay, CL2!!!!

Long time fan, first time caller...

Yes. Yay cl2. Who fits right in with what I wrote below about he ones who have lost family but stuck to honesty. She at the top of the list. Maybe hasn't lost them, but navigating her family and still being that wonderful is pretty amazing.

Got some pluck, cl2.

+1 on Bob McCue. He was initially the person whose posts brought me to RFM.

Simon Southerton and Annointed One.

And everyone who lost their family but stuck to honesty.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Simon Southerton and Annointed One.
>
> And everyone who lost their family but stuck to
> honesty.

We're not dead yet and the church's pandemic closures was a long needed break from that awful 20 hr grind that every Mormon can get so used to every week.

They maybe woke up more in the last nine months than in the past ninety years!

We need to add Susan I/S for sure! She put in countless hours over the years to keep this place running. She is at the top of my list and I am sure of many others who benefited from her work and kindness.

I second Eric’s nomination of Susan I/S. She’s certainly my favorite Exmo, and her tireless efforts kept this place running for years.

CZ

I third, and fourth, the nomination. Love you Susan.

Russell M. Nelson is an ex-Mormon (since he told us that "Mormon" is offensive to God), but I guess he's not all that admired by me.

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Russell M. Nelson is an ex-Mormon (since he told
> us that "Mormon" is offensive to God), but I guess
> he's not all that admired by me.

See pray and prayers get answered.. Please please please God, make all of these idiot's something, anything, other than Mormons!

POOF!

Have to admit, that's power isn't it? Just a tiny teensy bit depressing, heh..

Done & Done, Cl2, and Paul Toscano (“The Sanctity of Dissent” is one of his great books), and Tevai.

(And all the rest o’ ya.)

There are many more who no longer post here and I wish I could think of their names, but I'm old.

And BYU Boner.

Elder Berry. So many who I have enjoyed reading and responding to over the years.

There are too many to mention.

How about ME?

First of all, who remembers > Boisean < and if you're having a lump in your throat, you got it right. Started mormon recovery and then something happened, suicide.

Well, that's nice and cheerful, NOT! Just be careful and get all the help you maybe might need, please..

There was, Gracies Daddy, apostategal, happyashellexmo, true_peace, Dahli-mama, josephs myth, Tessa, tibber, Kori Korihor, Ophellia / O, dogzilla, yerhonr, Old Soul,
Crime Dog,
Grape Nephi, Slappedhard, athena, wesmanlv, Strong Free & Thankful, MikeUtah, DrW, AudaciousMe, Yugeorangeman / not, Discon2, NoLongerASheeple, free thinker, helemon, dave (elder_nomo), Newman, Hellmut, dogbusters, truly confused, evilgeniusmom, wescape, hypatia, StormWalker, epic, Quartersawn,
Born Free, 2latesue, Dutch (very special), Zim, MsGabbie2u, DoubleX, junebug, Skeptic, purple-goat (heh), ferretmom, mysticmamma55 (bouncy), athena, victim, Onandagus, YesIAmAPyr8,
Nothing in my Jello, tbiter jack scott, wankel, Life Rocks, peter_mary, My Turn, winterfootsteps, Runtu, Jeff Ricks, CdnxMo,
Wimpy Atheist, Brad (zeezrom), aleut, Hueffenhardt, Suspicious Minds, jahedgpeth, Candygal, thewriterwithin, magi, jiggymuse, Thussaithenoob, Left4Good, Absent Minded Houskeeper, Lessmon, pnut, Southern Redneck, Doggonit

That'll hold ya..