info i came across:

As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year

Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic ...
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)


BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???
we've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a lot higher? So, the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?

of anything from CDC in the last four years

i don't know what to believe anymore

cindysue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't know what to believe anymore
===============================

Belief is a trap.
Being unyielding, it is brittle - set against what is in actuality an ever-changing ever-evolving universe.

It's like that guy Lao Tzu wrote:

"A man is born gentle and weak.
At his death he is hard and stiff.
Green plants are tender and filled with sap.
At their death they are withered and dry.

Therefore the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death.
The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.

Thus an army without flexibility never wins a battle.
A tree that is unbending is easily broken.

The hard and strong will fall.
The soft and weak will overcome."

I have to say, we have discussed Taoism many times. Other than me, I believe you are the only person to quote the actual document.

Be water, my friend.

Many who died of COVID had underlying conditions, old age, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc.

Many of them died no matter if they had or didn't have COVID being present.

Without being able to explore the data, my guess is 20-30,000 of the 400,000 deaths are actually caused only by COVID.

So if someone has cancer and is then shot in the head by an enemy, his death was "actually caused" by cancer?



ETA: If I'm ever accused of vehicular manslaughter, I'm going to use that logic as my defense. "Your honor, the victim was going to die eventually anyway so my Vespa was not the actual cause of death."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2021 09:48PM by Lot's Wife.

I think it will take another couple of years before there is enough good data for a proper demographic analysis determining both the immediate and longer term impacts of Covid on the longevity of various age groups.

It's not just a case of 'believing' or 'not believing' the CDC data - it needs to be the subject of proper scientific/ statistical analysis before informed conclusions can be drawn.

in that it makes no sense at all, until suddenly one day it does - years before the mast intervening.

Thank you for the water wish.
Would be a welcome remedy to my typical HOF (hair-on-fire)

;-)

The key to Laotzu is the first two stanzas,

"The Tao that can be described with words is not the true Tao.
The Name that can be named is not the true Name."

Since the Tao cannot be identified with precise language, there's no way the Laotzu could explain it. Instead, think of yourself as an archer walking at some distance around a target. Every ten or twenty steps you stop and shoot an arrow at the target. Some hit and some don't.

Each of the chapters in the Daodejing is an arrow. Some people gain a bolt of insight through some chapters, others learn from other perspectives. But there is no attempt to tie the chapters together in a logical argument.

That's one of the commonalities with Buddhism. The chapters in the Daodejing are much like koans: logical conundrums meant to spur insight through meditation and an escape from logic.

Now,now. You know that the Tao equals Logos which equals the Higgs boson which equals the singularity which means that nature is good.

So where is the dark matter?

You will have to ask Michio deGrasse Einstein-Spinoza about that.

or as Lao Tzu said: "I knew that"

I'm not sure what happened. Remember when the last administration announced the CDC should report numbers to a different government site instead of the CDC? Where are those?

I think some counties stopped reporting them consistently to either place. I believe they realized the numbers would be cleaned up to show whatever narrative Trump wanted. I heard Ivanka (of all the unqualified people) was possibly involved in what CDC could release. I cannot prove this since I am no longer in contact with friends at the CDC. I do know of proof of CDC reports being "softened" which was also presented on a Maddow newscast with evidence. I think a the CDC was written off as not reliable for a while.

Like oldpobot said, there needs to be some digging into what's what with the statistics. I think we will see some transparency and clarifications in the future when all this is studied without censoring.

I also believe the pandemic could have caused irregularities with other deaths due to the big changes in lifestyles. For example there were hardly any flu deaths in my state last year.

Sounds like left-wing extremist conspiracy theories.

dagny Wrote:
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> . . . the future when all this is studied without
> censoring.
===============================

Precisely why my skepticism of CDC data 2017-2020.

Exactly as U.S. Postal Service was deliberately crippled, so also was CDC.
The cost is hundreds of thousands dead. All for the vanity of one.

CDC is a world-class thoroughbred neglected, starved, and abandoned in a stall to never again see the sun.
But with the apparatchiks now expelled, we're going to be okay.

I don't know where you got those figures, but the CDC won't report final numbers for 2020 until next Christmas. Your 2020 numbers are bogus.


It turns out I did a rather long and detailed post about this six weeks ago. It will take a while for you to plow through, but it has real data.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2352918,2352918#msg-2352918


If you want an estimate of the excess deaths for 2020 above and beyond the expected level, see the following link. The weekly bar graph of deaths is about halfway down the page. You will notice quite a large spike starting about last April. Note that the last few weeks of the graph are abnormally low because of reporting delay.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Where does your 2020 number come from? I see the 2019 deaths are 2,854,838 at

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

If I look at the CDC totals at

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

the 2020 total is 3,346,557

(scroll down to Table 1, click on "Yearly")

which is more in line with the 3.2 million they were forecasting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-pandemic-turned-2020-deadliest-year-u-s-history-cdc-n1252078

https://usafacts.org/articles/preliminary-us-death-statistics-more-deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

USA Today calls out Facebook pandemic deniers:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/08/fact-check-u-s-more-deaths-2020-than-2019-covid-19/4141839001/

Yeah, this^^^

US average lifespan is already well below all of western Europe and much of eastern Europe. We are not very far ahead of China, and we have botched covid so badly that it is entirely possible that when the numbers for 2020 come out, we will be below China on lifespan.

That will mean the US will not even be in the top 25% of the world on lifespan. That'll be embarrassing should it come to pass.


And yes, about a third of a million US residents died of covid in 2020. CDC has been keeping those statistics since 1878, and they are very good at it, plus a lot of very smart people go through their statistics constantly with the finest of fine tooth combs.

When they are not rock-solid sure about a number, they say so. I would not expect final covid numbers for 2020 to be released until around 2023. Last I looked, the final numbers for the 2017 flu season had not been released yet.

early death is quite embarrassing

Oh, let's compare.

Somewhere between 50 and 100 million Americans have probably been infected with covid.
Total deaths: 485K. Hospitalizations: well over a million. Long term after effects, well over a million.

Approximately 40 million Americans have had at least one vaccination shot.
Total deaths due to vaccine: zero, as far as I know.
Total blood disorders: four or five dozen, based on the numbers I saw a week ago.
Total allergic reactions: I don't know, but all vaccines, and a whole bunch of other things can cause allergic reactions. Doesn't seem to be a virulent allergen.

So which is more dangerous, getting covid or getting vaccinated?

I'm kind of puzzled as to why this is even an issue.

Thank you and BoJ for all this information.

I had forgotten BoJ's information in that previous thread.

I don't know how accurate the numbers are, but I imagine that deaths from things like traffic accidents and work-related accidents have been down by quite a bit. Sometimes the roads are downright deserted.

Surprisingly, traffic deaths are not down by much. Emptier roads has resulted in more speeding, which makes accidents more likely to be fatal, So fatalities are about the same as previous years.

Deaths per vehicle miles traveled are way up, but vehicle miles traveled are down.

Yes, road deaths in France are down something like 25%.

Geez. So it's, "Woo hoo!! Empty road. Hit the gas!!" This pandemic is not bringing out the best in a lot of people.

cindysue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Only 57,641 more in the USA? That doesn’t make sense.
What sources are you looking at?
Just recently, Quebec passed 10,000 deaths and this includes Jan and Feb 2021.
Ontario passed 6,000 deaths.
Canada passed 21,000 deaths.
The population of Canada is 38e6.
The population of USA is 328e6.

So, the death due to COVID-19 for the USA should be
21,000 deaths * 328e6 / 38e6 = 181,000 deaths in the USA due to COVID-19
however, synonymous’s link says 448,000 deaths.

Source:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html




Saturday, Feb 13, 2021


Northwest Territories = 38 cases
Yukon = 70 cases
Prince Edward Island = 114 cases
Nunavut = 303
Newfoundland and Labrador = 660 cases
New Brunswick = 1,382 cases
Nova Scotia = 1,590 cases
Saskatchewan = 26,145 cases
Manitoba = 30,588 cases
British Colombia = 72,750 cases
Alberta = 128,235 cases
Quebec = 274,831 cases
Ontario = 283,587 cases
TOTAL CANADA CASES = 820,306 cases



Northwest Territories = 0 death
Prince Edward Island = 0 death
Yukon = 1 death
Nunavut = 1 death
Newfoundland and Labrador = 4 deaths
New Brunswick = 22 deaths
Nova Scotia = 65 deaths
Saskatchewan = 350 deaths
Manitoba = 866 deaths
British Colombia = 1,288 deaths
Alberta = 1,760 deaths
Ontario = 6,632 deaths
Quebec = 10,173 deaths
TOTAL CANADA CASES = 21,162 deaths

~~~~iceman9090

For all the Covid deniers, please send your allotted vaccine to Maryland, because people here are clamoring for it. I would love for my older family members to be vaccinated. By all means, feel free to give up your spot in line.

not sure about covid deniers, just unsure about covid death numbers

Figures don't lie but liers figure, I'm skeptical of a lot of info, however in the small north fl town I live in I never knew anyone who died from influinza however u spell it. In the last year many people I've know all my life, went to school with etc have died from this stuff. True story here, sold lady stove 3 weeks ago for rental property, yes older, brother had covid, called her to take him to hospital, his wife disabled, so she picked him up and took him, both are now dead. I've known them all my life. This stuff is no joke!! That one of many for that week here.

and he researched it. He was skeptical the minute I showed it to him. He said he found this info in a post on fb as the only source he could find.

A post on Facebook!

Surely that's the gold standard for factual content and lifestyle instructions!

I don't know a single person who's died of Covid and I know many old people. About the nearest is one guy who spent three weeks in hospital with it. Maybe the lockdown has stopped this, but it is destroying everything else round here.

We have people round here who are 100+ who are said to have died from it. Truth is that if you reach a century, you are on borrowed time anyway.

You can't do anything here unless you want to go to McDonalds or a big supermarket. They can do what they want seemingly. You can't get door keys cut but you can get your mutt trimmed.

The only way to look at Covid-19 deaths is to look at excess deaths compared to expected deaths which you can find here https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm Go about a third of the way down for the weekly death chart, it is very clear to see the deaths due to Covid-19. Also of interest is the excess deaths around January 2018.

Thanks, that was interesting.

We in Massachusetts were top of the heap with nursing home deaths, but because the new, improved New York figures we've dropped to #2. I'd say "we try harder," but I don't think "Good Time Charlie" Baker is trying very hard, now that he's got a post-term (pun intended) job lined up with the region's biggest "'health' care provider" (no pun intended).

Even the Boston Glob admits Florida is doing a better job at vaccine distribution.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 01:58AM by behindcurtain.