Date: March 25, 2021 01:49PM
One more time for the people in the back:
Masks don’t completely prevent infections, but they help.
Social distancing doesn’t completely prevent spreading the virus, but it helps.
Vaccines are never 100% effective, but in this case, they are extremely effective in preventing the most serious symptoms.
Bottom line: the more people wear masks, socially distance, and get vaccinated, the sooner we can get a bit closer to what we remember as “normal.”
Date: March 25, 2021 05:07PM
> What is really scary to me is the rapid rate at
> which new covid variants are occurring. One of the
> variants could possibly be resistant to the
> vaccine. Another reason for everyone to take all
> precautions, especially wearing masks.
Very good point.
Also, as others say above, people who are vaccinated can still carry the virus and transmit it to non-vaccinated people. I know that seems bizarre but is apparently proven to be true.
Too, it takes up to two weeks post-vaccination before a high degree of immunity is achieved in the person who received the vaccine. During that time, continued mask-wearing can help prevent them from contracting COVID before utmost immunity is reached (it's in the 80s-90s potentially after time but is not 100% and it takes time to develop).
I see ads on TV for devices or masks that protect one's lipstick from smudging while wearing a mask. Who will see it, I wonder, if we never take our masks off in public. It makes me laugh. And I laugh at myself too if I absent-mindedly apply a touch of make-up and then cover up my face from eyes down to neck. Seems archaic or redundant or whatever word means exceptionally unnecessary. Except for the eyes, maybe. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 05:08PM by Nightingale.
Date: March 27, 2021 12:49PM
You're arguing against yourself. If the vaccines really work and most people get them we won't need the restrictions anymore, will we? Of course, you've just told us people need the vaccine, but you also want us to keep the restrictions as before. This is the modern version of the Milgram Experiment.
Oh and you mention "herd (sic) immunity". That is a separate issue to vaccination, but you conflate the two.
I don't need advice on vaccinations and "guidelines". I was wearing a mask a year ago before the authorities told us to. I also have a BCG scar on my left arm. I've had so many needles in my arms and butt, I might as well be a pin cushion. But forgive me when I question your logic - we have to have something to get back to. This situation is already skyrocketing suicide, bankruptcy, cardiovascular trouble and even cancer (since some people don't go to the clinic soon enough in these times.)
Date: March 27, 2021 03:05PM
Get Fact Wrote:
> If the vaccines actually work we will not need all
> these restrictions. If they keep them, you should
> question why.
The end goal is indeed to dispense with the current restrictions. They are presently in place because humans, indeed, are vulnerable to a new virus to which no-one was immune, not having encountered it previously.
Until the vaccines were available the protective measures were crucial to try and keep down the startling and tragic morbidity and mortality rates.
Now that vaccines have been developed we can see a time when "normal" is again our daily experience. However, that won't happen, health experts explain, until herd immunity is achieved. (Yes, it's '"herd" immunity - I don't know why you put 'sic' to indicate an error there. I note some people misspell it as "heard" immunity, which is an error due to the two words being homophones).
But even after a person receives their full dose/s of a vaccine they have to wait 2 weeks before relaxing their precautions because it takes that long, approximately, for highest immunity to occur.
And relaxing does not denote fully dispensing with all preventive measures even after full vaccination due to the fact that a person who is vaccinated can still carry the COVID-19 virus and infect non-vaccinated people with whom they come into contact.
That is where the herd immunity comes in. Until a majority of the population in each country is vaccinated we will have to carry on with the mask-wearing, social distancing and hygiene practices. There will be more situations in which we can gather (such as in family groups if at least the more vulnerable people are fully vaccinated) but not a total return to "normal" for the duration.
Unfortunately, it is not yet known what percentage of population needs to be vaccinated against COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity.
It is known that 95% of us need to be vaccinated against measles, for instance, before herd immunity is reached.
I don't understand the reluctance to practice these simple measures out of caution for one's own health and consideration for others. How devastating would it be to know we had infected another person through our own carelessness or reluctance to observe the measures and that that person became gravely ill, thereby suffering greatly, or even died, losing their precious life unnecessarily and bringing untold agony to their loved ones?
The bottom line with COVID, unfortunately, is that even after being vaccinated, you can still contract it. The up side there, though, is that apparently having been vaccinated makes the case less severe than it may otherwise have been.
It's not forever. Just for now while we strive to limit the damage and prevent even more enormous and unnecessary loss of life.
Is that really too much to ask?
(Too, I like people who wash their hands regularly, COVID or no COVID).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2021 03:28PM by Nightingale.
Date: March 28, 2021 10:15AM
According to information from the Cleveland Clinic, what is needed for herd immunity can vary widely. As you mentioned, for measles it takes about 95%. For the seasonal flu, it can be as low as 33% to 44% to achieve herd immunity. Polio is around 80% to achieve herd immunity. The estimate from the Cleveland Clinic is that Covid will require between 50% to 80%, and the Mayo Clinic is stating that experts estimate approximately 70% vaccination to achieve herd immunity from Covid. I do recall an interview with Dr. Fauci not too long ago and if my memory is correct he estimates around 70% to 75%.
NPR has a vaccine tracker and their estimate is that the United States will reach the 50% fully vaccinated threshold around August 13, and will reach 70% fully vaccinated around November 2. So if the herd immunity estimates are correct, the window for obtaining it is late summer at the earliest, and mid to late fall for the more common estimates.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2021 10:15AM by alsd.
Date: March 28, 2021 02:59PM
The one wrinkle to that story is the variants. No one knows whether mutations will endow new versions of the disease with the ability to evade the existing vaccines. If that happens, then herd immunity won't be attained for longer and perhaps forever: this could become a disease like influenza, which requires annual boosters to immunize people for a rapidly evolving virus, only with a much higher level of deaths and side effects.
Which is why having pools of people resisting vaccination is so dangerous: the more people avoiding the vaccine, the greater the opportunity for mutations to mount. Thus the US hesitancy over the last year transformed the country into basically a Third World petri dish that favored the evolution and spread of dangerous variants.
One day, when Americans come to their political senses, that will be a source of shame.
Date: March 28, 2021 06:13PM
I don't like the phrase "herd immunity", because I don't consider us all cattle. Even if some of us try damn hard to act as if they are.
We can't keep this up forever. We need something to go back to other than collapse, and more and more restriction and micromanagement. This is the modern Milgram Experiment, if a man in a white coat suggests a solution which is worse than the crisis, you don't have to follow him. Find someone who suggests a solution which does the least harm. That would not be the current one, because it is inconsistent, discriminatory and destructive.