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Posted by: behindcurtain ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 04:00PM

In high school I was known as being "smart". I worried about whether or not I was the "smartest". The valedictorian got higher grades than I did. Was he smarter than I was? My brother got a higher standardized test score than I did. Was he smarter than I was?

Now that we are middle-aged, both my classmate and brother are more financially successful than I am. The casual observer might say that this means they are smarter. However, I believe that I am smarter than they are, according to the most basic definition of the word. Yay! I won the "who-is-smarter" contest!

Any believer who has reached middle age and hasn't figured out that Mormonism is not true cannot be called smart in any full or profound sense.

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Posted by: paisley70 ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 04:54PM

Donald Hoffman has the answer to which you seek:

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/does-reality-exist?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

Using evolutionary game theory, Hoffman and his collaborators created computer simulations to observe how "truth strategies" (which see objective reality as is) compared with "pay-off strategies" (which focus on survival value). The simulations put organisms in an environment with a resource necessary to survival but only in Goldilocks proportions.

Consider water. Too much water, the organism drowns. Too little, it dies of thirst. Between these extremes, the organism slakes its thirst and lives on to breed another day.

Truth-strategy organisms who see the water level on a color scale — from red for low to green for high — see the reality of the water level. However, they don't know whether the water level is high enough to kill them. Pay-off-strategy organisms, conversely, simply see red when water levels would kill them and green for levels that won't. They are better equipped to survive.

"[E]volution ruthlessly selects against truth strategies and for pay-off strategies," writes Hoffman. "An organism that sees objective reality is always less fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees fitness pay-offs. Seeing objective reality will make you extinct."

Since humans aren't extinct, the simulation suggests we see an approximation of reality that shows us what we need to see, not how things really are.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 07:43PM

Sometimes it takes a lot of brain power to do the mental gymnastics and come up with seemingly plausible explanations for different questions.

People on the other end of the scale don’t ask difficult questions.

I suppose I’m in the middle. I ask questions, but eventually trying to find a way to make it work was too much effort.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 10:42PM

I know some very intelligent middle aged Mormons.
My best friend is a Mormon ER Dr, who is very successful. My wife’s OBGYN who delivered 3/4 of our kids is Uber Mormon and I’d trust him with my kids lives. He was my Bishop when I resigned, which made it tough.
I know a lot of other intelligent professionals who are Mormon. It’s not a matter of intelligence, it’s a matter of intelligent people using their brilliant minds to justify remaining Mormon, because admitting it’s a fraud would be disastrous for their marriages, their families, their careers, the list goes on.

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Posted by: El padre del tiempo ( )
Date: April 06, 2021 05:30AM

I believe it’s more a lack of personal integrity than lack of smarts that keeps people in.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: April 13, 2021 05:23PM

Disagree. I did what I thought was right until I didn't think it any more.

I have three TBM brothers who I trust completely as wonderful, trustworthy humans.

It might be true in some cases, but not most.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: April 06, 2021 02:34PM

men who are still mormon. I worked with them in my 20s. They were Ph.D.s in chemistry and science. They are not your typical mormons. They still think I'm great and support me in my decisions.

I don't understand why some people choose not to leave.

Myself, I left over life experience. I didn't study my way out. I just said on another thread that the leaders proved they were not men of God by how they handled my situation. They proved to me they had no answers for my situation. Eventually, my brain was screaming too loud at me to try to pretend any longer.

Now I see my daughter trying to do the same thing I was trying to do--to have my family forever. She remembers us being happy back when we were going to church and then all hell broke loose when her father left us as he is gay. She has to fix it. Or so she thinks. I know it confuses her. She is very intelligent.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 08:30PM

Are there middle-aged ex-mormons who can truly be called dumb? I mean, besides me?


Edited show just how dumb I am!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2021 08:31PM by elderolddog.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 08:38PM

We love the edited show.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 11:49PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are there middle-aged ex-mormons who can truly be
> called dumb? I mean, besides me?
>
>
> Edited show just how dumb I am!


Please define your terms

middle-age & 'dumb'

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 08, 2021 01:36AM

> Please define your terms
>
> middle-age & 'dumb'


About 500 A.D. to about June 14, 1502 A.D.

'Dumb' is when you are trying to do something you don't know how to do, the point that you don't even know when you do it right.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 08, 2021 02:50AM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Dumb' is when you are trying to do something you
> don't know how to do, the point that you don't
> even know when you do it right.

Please don’t elaborate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2021 02:52AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 09:11PM

I think my mother was smart enough to know, but too spineless to act on it. Goes for a sibling or two as well. Is surrender dumb or weak?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 12, 2021 11:02AM

I see a lot of that. Risk/benefit assessment?

What is the difference between, smart vs being honest with one's self?

Is compartmentalizing integrity a social survival technique that has nothing to do with intelligence? Does it take smarts to disregard information in order to get what you really want?

This is why BKP said some truths are not very useful.

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Posted by: Jethro ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 10:04PM

Belief IMO does not correlate with itelect, not when uv been raised a certain way. When u believe and are emotionally tied to something u just caint see the truth.

Look at all the things people do in the name of belief, storm the capital, lol, drink poisen coolaid, give up ur wife and sex to David Koresh, dive air planes into ships, think not drinking coffee or tea will save u. Now I say how could I not see that a cup of coffee has nothing to do with anything. I had to do with being emotionally tied in, and they said so I guess its so.

I know many very smart people who are true believers, yes they could figure out but emotions won't let them.

Jehova witness will let a child die b4 it will let them get a blood transfusion.

I say belief will lead u from the truth, fact will take u to the truth.
When a person believes something u just cant penatrate it.

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Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: April 08, 2021 10:48AM

To partially address the question, read Haidt's book "The Happiness Hypothesis".

"The mind is divided into parts that sometimes conflict. Like a rider on the back of an elephant, the conscious, reasoning part of the mind has only limited control of what the elephant does."

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Posted by: Moe H ( )
Date: April 08, 2021 03:43PM

In our first neighborhood we had a couple who were not only Mr/Mrs Mormon but obviously had some money and very smart. (he was an attorney). He contacted me 20 years later, he was divorced and selling cars (really). Turns out his wife was gay and he didn't believe in the LDS religion anymore. We kept in touch and he starting practicing law again in Utah where he had met a client's wife during a divorce. He was still very very smart. Anyway,he dates this woman and they announce no sex until married and they were going to get married in the temple. They were both in their early 50s. After two years of dating, I told him, "this isn't a good sign, you haven't had sex for two years"? He assured me he knew what he was doing. Two years later, they are divorced. Turns out she was on lithium. He doesn't believe in LDS religion anymore. I talk to him occasionally and he is still very very smart...

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Posted by: nli today ( )
Date: April 08, 2021 03:50PM

> He assured me he knew what he was doing.
> Two years later, they are divorced. Turns
> out she was on lithium.

I'm on lithium too. You seem to be implying that mental health treatment is bad.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: April 13, 2021 05:29PM

He's implying that the divorce is explained by her mental illness which is complete sh**.

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Posted by: Moe H ( )
Date: April 08, 2021 03:57PM

@nli today
<long exhale>I'm not implying anything.

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Posted by: Tyson Dunn ( )
Date: April 12, 2021 10:38AM

And frankly, what does being smart have to do with finding a spouse or with later figuring out that one is incompatible with one's spouse?

When the irrelevant details are removed, I think your story boils down to: "I knew a guy who went through two divorces." *shrug*

Tyson

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 12, 2021 02:49PM

so True!

I think we're (not me, of course!)

suggesting that being 'smart' links all thought processes together, That Just Ain't So!!

good lawyers are able to discern & distinguish between similar appearing thoughts, documents & legal precedence, that's why they're highly paid.

a smart attorney might be terrible at making courtroom presentations, but that's not nearly all of their work.

our emotional selves are quite a different matter.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: April 13, 2021 02:22PM

Depends on your definition of “smart.” I think Yes, by the common acceptance of the meaning. However, they can be extremely smart and extremely gullible at the same time.

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Posted by: Moe H ( )
Date: April 13, 2021 04:04PM

Thank you NormaRae. Some people are putting too much into this post.

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