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Posted by: Waren Jeffs ( )
Date: May 01, 2021 11:32PM

When I was a teenage Mormon,I heard Mormons boast and claim that going on 2 year missions does not disrupt plans to study at university, and returned missionaires settle so easily in to their university enrollment or what other plans they had.Is that really true? Has a whole career plan be destroyed for a returned missionary for maybe attending one year of university,then going away on the mission?

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 02:01AM

Missions, and particularly the directives given by some mission presidents that departing male missionaries become engaged/married in X amount of time, have derailed many educations. If money is no object for a particular family, it's less an issue, but money IS an issue for most.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2021 02:01AM by scmd1.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 02:15AM

You think 18 year olds have whole career plans? And how does this so-called career plan get destroyed? It seems to me that a lot of people's career plans are subject to change at various points in their lives, sometimes planned, sometimes just random events that are thrust upon them. (“The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”)

Anything that delays what would have been your normal course of action is by definition a disruption, so yes, missions are disruptions. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But claims that missions aren't disruptive are right up there with claims that a mission is the best two years of your life, is a spiritual feast, yada yada yada. Sugar-coated denialism, IMHO

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 02:34AM

I was 'older' (21?) when I left.

except for meeting the now former wife (afterwards, wouldn't have happened if I didn't go), I wish I'd stayed with my employment that I gave up to go, I'd be happier & richer now.

just sayin'

How well I would have blended in with Mormonism had I not gone is not completely settled, but I've always been skeptical. d
Donating $ to ChurchCo wasn't ever appealing to me.

Now, I don't understand how Mormons deal with the core essentials of Christ-Like living, Honesty, Kindness, etc. they seem 100% AWOL today!!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 02:52AM

Totally made up “fact” that would be an easy principle/belief/teaching to slip into the mormon experience:

“Your life on Earth is extended by exactly the number of days you served as a faithful missionary!”

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 03:25AM

That would mean that a missionary who died on his mission would have died on the day he started his mission if he hadn't gone.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 03:36AM

I am just glad that I did not graduate from BYU. As an RM with good high-school grades, I am sure that I could have gotten in to BYU. But after resigning from the church, I would have been stuck with an ongoing affiliation to that cult, every time my academic credentials came up, for the rest of my life. What a mess that would have been. Then you've got to explain to the church members at work that you're an apostate, or explain to the non-members at work that you made a mistake by serving a mission and attending a religious college that you no longer believe in. What a mess that would be. At least after ten years passed, my mission dropped off of my resume without leaving a conspicuous hole in my timeline. Coincidentally, that's about the same time I resigned from the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2021 03:39AM by azsteve.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 04:56PM

I too remember the day when I could remove my mission from my resume. What a stain that was!

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 03:02PM

My thoughts: it isn't just the mission term. It's all the incessant build-up leading up to that, which tells young people that their main job is to prepare for a mission, such that any enterprise that detracts from that goal is illusory at best and Satanic at worst. So you have all these young people- men and women- who have no idea how the world works or how to choose a career- which many of their peers have indeed figured out by then- and who are then expecting gifts from God any minute now to help them and reward them for their faithfulness.

Careers in the corporate world are seldom affected. Careers in the sciences are destroyed.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 03:13PM

My mission probably made the rest of my life possible. It got me out of the Vietnam War.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 03:55PM

Amen and hallelujah!!

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Posted by: JoeSmith666 ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 01:41PM

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mission probably made the rest of my life
> possible. It got me out of the Vietnam War.

The world is full of cowards. Religious cowards are some of the worst.

You could have come home and enlisted and chosen a MOS to help with life goals. Many of us have done so.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 02:43PM

The good thing to know is that ghawd was happy to help RMs to escape the clutches of the Draft.

Not everyone recognizes a miracle when they see it!

It's a bit silly to call kids who have gone on missions 'Cowards.' Your behavior on RfM is classic! I'm sure that I'm not the only one who recognizes the depth of your jealousy.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 02:57PM

'Twas a churlish and unfair quip, me-likewise-thinks.

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Posted by: JoeSmith666 ( )
Date: May 06, 2021 08:49PM

Served a mission and enlisted in the military for a career as well. Veteran benefits led to a lot of positive things, top being NO student loans to weigh me down.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 06, 2021 08:56PM

that's coming across a little fishy...and you're starting to stink.


Maybe some people had student loans back in the 60s and early 70s, but I never met any such souls. At least not at the Y.

Getting into the Y after serving a mission was practically guaranteed, and I was making $2.25/hour at Mr. Steak, so even after paying $75/month to rent a house out by the lake, paying $250 tuition was not the huge burden that paying tuition is nowadays.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: May 08, 2021 10:12AM

I worked part time for USU, so, essentially, they paid me to go to college.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: May 06, 2021 09:18PM

JoeSmith666 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You could have come home...

...in a flag-draped coffin.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 03:16PM

A mission is not the same as taking a year off and exploring the world.

You may learn a new language. But beyond that what do you really learn?

Many come back sick or mentally unhealthy.

Two years away from study will surely make you rusty at math and science. Two years isolation kills any ability to discuss recent current affairs or politics. History? Really after teaching falsehoods as truths.

Two years behind in education can mean two years late entering the work force and two years behind in promotions.

Long term two years behind in retirement savings. Two years of lost matching funds and worse of all two years lost on investment earnings at a time your funds are probably at their largest.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 10:30AM

Heartless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But beyond that what
> do you really learn?

In my case it taught me the church was a load of crap and that many of the leaders are jerks and liars.

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 04:50PM

I think it depends on where you live and what your career goals are. For Steve Young, not going on a mission was a good career move.

It would be interesting to survey missionaries 10/20 years after their missions and ask them if their missions hurt or helped their education/career plans.

A mission isn't just a two year college interruption while doing something useful, like volunteering with the Peace Corps or traveling just for fun. It is religious indoctrination, rejection, mental manipulation, guilt, emotional trauma, etc.

I don't know that my mission threw a wrench into my career plans because I didn't have any when I served. It did interrupt college for me and I found it more difficult to pick up where I'd left off when I returned from my mission. I was promised that the discipline I'd acquire as a missionary would make me a better student. It didn't. It's one of the things I can't stand about the Mormon church: so many bogus promises.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 06:31PM

Of course they do! Why even ask the question?

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Posted by: 1997resignee ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 01:21AM

Absolutely. I had academic scholarships that were paying for my undergraduate studies. Before I turned 19, the bishop kept hinting that he expected me to submit my paperwork. A year later, he called me into his office and, I suppose, in his own way called me to repentance, told me god didn't need me, and that I was setting a bad example to all of the younger men/boys in the ward for not having submitted paperwork to go on a mission.

I was livid. I simply responded that I never presumed god needed me and told him in no uncertain terms to never call me into his office again - that if I decided to go, I'd let him know.

Eventually, around the middle or end of September back in 1987 I completed the paperwork and told the bishop to his face that I would appreciate it if he would expedite so I could leave in December of January so it would cleanly fall between semesters at the university. The asshat sat on the paperwork and I ultimately ended up leaving to the MTC at the end of March in 1988 - the middle of a semester. This meant I would return in the middle of a semester.

When I returned, the asshat bishop assigned the topic of tithing for a homecoming talk making up some story that too many missionaries were returning and that everybody was tired of traditional homecoming talks. That might've made sense in Utah, but, I lived in Austin, Texas.

To this day, I still resent that asshat for intentionally sitting on the paperwork because it prevented me from completing the spring semester before I left, and prevented the same upon my return. So, from my perspective, the 2 year culturally pressured servitude unnecessarily delayed my undergraduate studies... I was three years behind my colleagues who weren't stuck in a cult. Additionally, I forfeited the academic scholarship funding due to the stupid mission obligation (you know - the duty they told me I had agreed to do while in the "pre-existence" from my toddlerhood through elementary school middle school, high school, and four years of mind numbing LDS early morning seminary indoctrination).

I could have completed my undergraduate studies three years earlier, gone to graduate school three years sooner, and began a professional career three years earlier (and conceivably, retired three years earlier than I did).

The Portugal Porto Mission was interesting (especially dealing with the mission president who eventually left his wife for the mission home maid...), but, I am now embarrassed to have been in a cult, and totally regret wasting two physical years (and three academic/professional years) as the result of trying to be what the cultist told me I was supposed to be. I'm so glad I've been cult free for nearly 25 years now.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2021 01:34AM by 1997resignee.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 12:11PM

There were 3 of us who went on missions with a 6 month period from my ward (after a period of 4 years where only 2 went; partly because the stake presidency declared them all immoral and dropped church discipline on them).

All 3 of us attended a year in junior college after high school~ 19 to serve a mission and tried to work jobs to save money for the mission. We were all advised by the dept chair know-it-all professor who worked where we were attending that all we needed to do was to submit a letter of intent that our collegiate studies would be interrupted to serve a 2 year mission for our church. So long as we turned it into the administration office, then we were good in protecting our "catalog rights" as undergrads.

So I had problems when trying to finish my 2 year mission. The church played a let's screw the missionary game. My mission transfers were always at the end of each month. I think they were always on the last Thursday if I recall correctly. Knowing that I needed to get my life in order and register for college, I requested to leave my mission one month early. I'm sure my MP was pleased!

Except the church switched the transfers for to the first week. I was told that I would have to get special approval from the missionary department to leave early because it was more than 30 days. If I waited for my official 2 years, it was the last day in Aug! Way too late to register for the Fall Semester.

Thankfully, I was able to leave in early July.

Now here's 2 reasons I feel the mission set me back.

First, I found out that the college did NOT honor that letter. I lost my catalog rights and found out that I was classified as a dropout! This happened to the other two guys who served mission as well. This cause a lot of havoc, I had to take additional bonehead classes that would have been waived! The dumbest one was a lecture hall class with a mock up robot having a pre-recorded cassette about Artificial Intelligence. I couldn't even attend on a day that I was already attending. I ended up attending 5 days a week because I was in the last group to register.

Secondly, the church demanded payment for the last month that I was home. My Mom felt pressured to pay up.

That left me short to pay for college. I couldn't afford to take a full load (and I had to take a non credit AI computer course to learn study/organizational skills that would have been waived). Just to make matters worse, I was not allowed to seek a parking permit until the last day. They were sold according to your college ranking. Remember, I was classified as a dropout and deserved nothing.

Not having a parking permit, I went across the street to the church institute. I was told that I would need to enroll to get a parking permit. They would not let me enroll without a stake signed letter that I was a missionary. Sheez!!!

I finally enrolled in the only class open, a church class about love, courtship and marriage. I had an evening parking permit. So I parked near the front off the city street. I received a deluge of parking tickets.

And I had more problems when I transferred to a state college from my interrupted education.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 12:24PM

Take TWO YEARS of a youngsters/ teenager's life, thoughts, plans, future/ present and it'll affect them in the same way taking two years of anyone's life would.

It IS NOT nearly as important as learning, growing and developing NORMALLY and NATURALLY is.

In fact, it is not important AT ALL for the individual, but for TSCC, who attempts to make it about the youngster.

It's their program and their problem (getting more member$)!

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 12:26PM

I found that losing two years in the "mission field" also delayed my retirement for the same two years. Going on a mission and losing those years can last your whole life. My mistake was exacerbated by having married young, and by remaining an active Mormon until 59.

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 09:08PM

Waren Jeffs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormons boast
> and claim that going on 2 year missions does not
> disrupt plans to study at university,
===============================

You can always believe everything these Mormon people say

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Posted by: sd ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 01:08PM

ner do well. Barely graduated from High School. Went on a mission, learned how to study, learned that if I could learn how to speak Chinese maybe I wasn't so dumb after all. Changed the entire trajectory of my life for the better. Doesn't make the church true but I do have to acknowledge the reality of it.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 01:49PM

That happens with a lot of people. I knew a boy who was an outsider from an awkward family and, when he turned 12, used the church to build a new social crowd and more ambitious educational and professional aspirations. He benefited greatly. There are also the young men (more than the slightly older women) who gain from missions as you describe.

My mission was a disaster and I think the church is harmful for the vast majority of people, but there are definitely those for whom it helps at critical points in their lives. Honesty requires acknowledging that fact.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 07:56PM

PLUS all the time: hundreds of HOURS going into study & missing prep, thousands of hours working and saving (sometimes), and this amounts to Time Not Spent learning about other things.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: May 06, 2021 01:44PM

My rationale for not wanting to go, other than not believing a word of any doctrine I'd ever heard, wss why would I give up 2 years of hell raising and partying time...seriously.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 08, 2021 03:50AM

That's a good argument!
A no brainer really.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: May 08, 2021 04:58AM

IF ONLY it was just the lost two years time of actually serving the mission.

JFC!!!!

There was the constant ongoing distraction (from academics) of anticipating the almighty mission.

There was the lost time and money and energy of working to help pay for the mission.

There were the funds spent on the mission that could have been used to pay for school, but those funds were gone forever when it was time to go to school.

There was the lost time of actually being on a mission.

There was the lost of time of trying to regroup upon returning from a mission.

There was the lost time and lost academic progress that is absent as a return missionary has to start supporting their self as an adult.

It was much more like 6 or 7 or 10 lost years when everything was factored out.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: May 08, 2021 10:27AM

When I was at Ricks 66-67...and all my American dorm mates were super focused on mission prep and keeping their GPA high enough to avoid a draft call. It reinforced my long held decision to not go on a mission.

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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: May 09, 2021 12:49PM

Yes.
Two years of indoctrination at that age will mess with critical thinking skills for life. The brain in an average person isn't mature until the age of 26. Stir in a loveless marriage, four kids, and a wife that doesn't want to work outside the home,
Bad things will be heading your way thanks to the church's horrible advice.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: May 11, 2021 10:01AM

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to missions, The mormon royalty and those on the shirt tales tend to excuse themselves from the duties they tell all the other lesser Mormons to undergo. My mission president who was a prominent 'Smith' as he use to brag to all of us about his Smith relatives, he excused himself from the mission sentence (As many many prominent Mormons do) but still lived his life conveniently within prominence that set him up to be rich within the Mormon streams of wealth here in Utah. Some of my relatives who are employed by the cob also have excused their children from the mission, yet these same children get rewarded with Mormon employment. They see that as their mission. No need to go to Nam if you have an assignment in the pentagon instead, I guess?

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: May 13, 2021 08:33PM

In short. Yes.

Complete waste of time. Unless you learn a language.

in 2021, I'd say a complete waste of time, skip it entirely, and avoid emergency shots just so can be admitted to visit a foreign country.

Get a job and make cash, go to a trade school and don't get shouldered with the debt from 3rd rate colleges that charge way too much.

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